| Author | Message | ||
     Jlnance |
Thanks Reep, that's a little more elegant than I had envisioned. So when the power exceeds the ability to of the VR to bleed off the excess power, it gets sent back to the stator? It just burns up the VR. Maybe a better VR would be the size of a Buick? A better solution would be to use a different type of regulating arrangement. Something that went in series with the stator so that it could block unneeded power rather than shunting it to ground would be easier on that stator. | ||
| Slowride |
Well, add me to the group! My dead battery in the Quickboard section turned out to be a VR/Stator. I put the new battery in today and ran 80 miles and the check engine light came on, then the gauges went out and a dead battery. I charged the battery per a jumper cable connection with a car for 30 minutes and was able to get back home the 80 miles. At the very end of the trip home tonight, the gauges were pulsating and the headlights were dimming and pulsating. I pulled it in the garage and the bike sputtered and died. Now everything is dead. 06 Uly 15,600 miles Build date: Jan/2006 My biggest conern is how reliable will my bike be after 4/2008 when it is out of warranty? Did, I mention this will add sheet 10 and 11 to my current warranty replacement work. I currently have over half the value of the bike in warranty repair by the dealer. I love the Uly, but I can't afford to keep a bike that total cost of ownership is more than the value of the bike. That is crazy! | ||
| Chadhargis |
When mine is out of warranty, I'll be doing the work myself. No way I'll be paying the shop to do what I can do in my garage. Even if I have to buy a special tool or two, it still comes out cheaper. When I replaced the engine in my Gixxer, I had to buy a $60 socket to get the engine mounts out....yes....$60 for a socket! On the flip side, the dealer would have charged me probably $1000 to do the swap. That $60 doesn't sound so bad given that fact. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Chad, The only special tool you really need for the job is the little widget to wedge in between the sprockets to keep them from turning while you loosen the crankshaft and clutch retaining nuts. OTOH you can find a scrap of aluminum and make your own. Oh yea, you'll also need to borrow, rent, or buy a BIG torque wrench. The crank nut has to be torqued to 240-260 ft-lbs which is about 100 ft-lbs more than your typical Sam's Club/Harbor Freight/etc. 1/2" drive torque wrench will handle. I was able to borrow one for free from my local Autozone when I replaced the stator on my S3. | ||
| Chadhargis |
Good tip. I would probably borrow/rent a big torque wrench versus buying one. Of course, I'd probably need a big socket to go with it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
You sure about that 240 ft lbs? I thought the original was about 100 ft lbs, and it was upped to 120 ft lbs. Which, if you weight 200 pounds, is standing on a rigid breaker bar 1.2 feet out from the socket... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Reepi, I can't find the actual bulletin on Badweb (I'm sure it's here somewhere), but I found reference to it in a post by Al Lighton. I believe it was originally 190-200 ft-lbs and it was upped to 240-260 after multiple cases of the crank nuts working loose. The 2008's evidently have a different arrangement that doesn't require such a huge torque to be applied. Heck, it was hard enough to go to 200 without tipping the bike off the stand. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The more I think about it, you are correct. My apologies! If you are 200 lbs, stand 1 foot out on the breaker bar. There is your 200 foot lbs of torque. You can do the math for your weight and your distance... | ||
| Sparky |
It's 250 +/- 10 ft-lbs as proclaimed forthwith in this Service Alert from the KV, Primary Drive section.  | ||
| Jmhinkle |
It's official, add me to the stator list. Roughly 6k miles and 16 months of ownership and stator took a dump. They say it was the cause of my pulsing lights. Have to wait for parts from the mothership again. 5-8 days for arrival. | ||
| Snowscum |
I'm curious if the guys having those go bad, are you running with both headlights on? | ||
| Chadhargis |
No. I run with only one headlight on. Electrical system is completely stock except for the heated grips which I haven't even powered on since last spring. Right now they are disconnected. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Curious that the 08 bikes switched to a lower output, single phase alternator. Perhaps the factory was aware of issues with the 06/07 setup? | ||
| Bertotti |
I might just add a power sponge to my bike. Kind of like amps use, or light the night with some deathrays or other lights. I imagine on all the time fog lights might help this not happen. Just a guess but I wonder if the shunt in the regulator might go bad and then let some power feed back into itself and the stator. I also wonder how one could add a shunt indicator light so you know the system is working. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Hmm, I wonder if there's any connection to fried fan motors. The fan would be a significant load on the alternator; maybe if your fan motor goes out for any length of time the regulator can't handle the additional load? Excessive fan operation may be a good thing! For that matter, have all these listed failures been on 06 bikes so far? Are the new parts the same as the old parts? It'd be nice to find out our 07's are immune. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Just put a voltmeter (preferably with digital readout) on the bike. You can monitor the health of your battery (voltage with ignition turned off) or the health of your regulator (voltage with bike running) and even stator (if the voltage goes low then the bike is running). I got a $15 part from WalMart designed for boats, and wired that in. Took a lot of rework on the packaging, but the LCD and LED's were all there and working out of the box. | ||
| Bertotti |
That's good but how do you know if the system isn't shunting the extra power to ground? | ||
| Reepicheep |
The amount of power generated is fixed, as this is a fixed magnetic field (permenant magnet) stator bell. It's not a variable magnetic field system like in a car alternator. So the amount of power is constant. If the voltage regulator stops shunting it, your voltage will go up (way up). If it shorts out (and effectively over shunts), your voltage will go down (way down). | ||
| Bertotti |
Learn something new every day. I thought it was like a car. | ||
| Teeps |
Reepicheep Posted on Sunday, November 11, 2007 The amount of power generated is fixed, as this is a fixed magnetic field (permenant magnet) stator bell. Not exactly true. http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/PMA.htm l See: Permanent Magnets Due to the fixed strength of the magnetic field generated by the permanent magnets, and the fixed number of turns in its coils, the voltage output of a permanent magnet alternator will vary with the rate of change of the magnetic flux. The rate of change of the flux is directly proportional to the rotational speed. It's not a variable magnetic field system like in a car alternator. This is true. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good point... the "constant" part is for a given RPM. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
This is why you need an 1050 RPM at idle. Below that and the voltage drops below the level necessary to keep the battery fully charged. The system works pretty well, but is dependent upon the voltage regulator to be able to absorb the excess capacity. What I don't like about the system is that if you put put around AND use lots of power, your battery doesn't properly charge, and if you keep the engine spooled up AND use very little power, the VR gets taxed and fails very quickly. Please, someone. Does the 08 stator retrofit on the 06 and 07? Less peak power might be a good thing. Is the idle speed different on the 08? | ||
| Jmhinkle |
No it does not. It's been discussed before. The '08 motors have the XBRR bottom end design and use a different system than the '06-'07 ones. All this talk brings up an interesting point though. I never had any problems with mine until I disconnected all the lights which removed all the load from the system and then went racing which had the system creating max power. Max power with no load equals failed stator. I usually put put around using a lots of power from extra lights, heated grips and heated gear and have not had a problem with the system charging at all. I even run my idle slightly low because I had problem with the floating idle issue when it was set to 1050. It charged my battery just fine. I think the system needs a bigger/better shunt than the VR provides. | ||
| Bertotti |
Tube amplifiers for guitar always need a load. Bench techs will hook up a load which is just a huge resistor basically to take the load. Without enough load the power generated by the tubes that isn't used is reflected back into the system usually blowing the output transformer. My thought is a couple power resistors wired in and a volt meter. Should you notice the voltage go way up switch to the power sink. I'm sure a automatic system could be rigged also but I'm to tired to think about it right now. Maybe a voltage sensing circuit that would trip a relay over a predetermined voltage level. Run this in parallel with the current system as a back up. Hey all the best fighters and bombers etc. have back up systems. | ||
| Reepicheep |
As much fun as retro-engineering may be, my solution to the whole problem (based on a lot of thought and an undergraduate degree in electrical engineering) was the same conclusion Buellistic reached... just make sure I am always using a good battery. I just replaced my 2005 XB9SX factory battery... it was a 2004 fall manufacture, and it just started holding a low voltage when the bike is not running and turning over slowly, so I spent the $80 to replace it. That was 3 years per $80 battery... not great, but about what I would expect for a motorcycle. | ||
| Bertotti |
That does kind of take the fun out of it. My last bike had the same battery for 5 years till I sold it. I've never had a bike battery let up on me in three. That was 20 years ago though maybe they were a bit beefier back then. | ||
| Xbimmer |
So we need to spend money (I don't imagine a dealer will warranty an old battery as long as it still works) in order to help our bike's charging system do the job? I think that's more than a little ridiculous.  I stuck a Kuryakyn battery meter on my front brake reservoir so I can watch what's going on while I'm riding, and I check the battery connections weekly now. That's about all I'm willing to do on a modern motorcycle. And I sure don't plan on regularly replacing V/R's if they're not up to the task. Surely there has to be out there in that vast HD aftermarket a V/R that will handle all the charging and shunting my Buell demands from it... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Accel evidently makes both an aftermarket stator and VR for Sportsters and tube framed Buells. Maybe they'll step up to the plate for the XB alternators if enough people ask. For that matter, did the 06/07 Sportys use this same alternator, or something else? | ||
| Reepicheep |
20,000 miles and 3 years of year around use (in all sorts of temps here in the midwest) did not seem unreasonable for a stock battery for me. I could have stretched it out to four years, not knowing when I will have to bump start it, but given the fact that doing this abuses my VR, I didn't see the point. If you want my old battery, probably a year left in it if you feel lucky, c'mon by and pick it up any time, or pay for shipping... it's yours! Batteries are consumables, especially in demanding applications like motorcycles. Small packaging, light, lots of vibration, odd mounting positions, lots of temperature swings, etc. The battery in my Kawasaki was absolutely trashed... and it looked to be less then two years old. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
We learned this weekend, YOU AIN'T BUMP STARTING A DAYUM THING! Two of us (plus the passenger) pushing as hard as we could on level ground couldn't get the motor to even turn over. When you dropped the clutch it just locked the rear wheel. I wouldn't count on push starting your bike. On a steep hill, maybe. You will give yourself a coronary trying to push start your own bike. |
