| Author | Message | ||
     Pbuckley |
Russ Hold on a minute. I have noticed the "clunk" on up and down stroke on my M2 from day one. I just assumed it was the valve reversing. It is not a hard metalic clunk but rather muffled (by o-rings or fork oil?). I had never noticed anything like it on my other bikes. It concerned me enough to check it out on a buddys new M2 and it behaved the same so I assumed it was A-OK. I might be comparing apples and oranges here. The M2 does not have the upside down forks. So everyone go out and sit on your bike, grab the front brake and work that fork before Russ starts ripping his forks apart. I can't believe Russ and I are the only ones who sit on their bike with the engine not running, grabbing a handfull of brake, pushing on their forks. Maybe everyone else can't hear anything cause they're making the varoom-varoom sound while they're doing it. Preston | ||
| Ara |
God bless your analytical synapses, Preston! Please, yes do go out and give it a couple lunges with the radio off and see if you hear or feel anything you didn't expect. I'm going to do whatever I'm going to have to do Saturday morning, so some feedback between now and then would be MOST VALUABLE. Thanks everybody. And thanks again, Preston. Russ | ||
| Jimidan |
Showa Shock Mystery -- I have two Showa Shocks that seem to be made differently. One has a Presta valve in the reservoir that allows the system to be repressurized, the other does not. My question: is ther any way to repressurize the one without the Presta valve? The factory had to pressurize this thing when they made it...how did they do it? | ||
| Ara |
Hasn't anybody done the front suspension "test" by rocking the bike with the front brake engaged? I was hoping for some feedback. Anybody? | ||
| Simond |
Russ, just popped out to check my '00 X1 - so Showa upside downies. I get a similar sound to that described by Preston. Not really a clunk but more of a muffled click at the top of the stroke. I can feel this click through the bars. I have 11k miles on the bike and the head races were replaced approx 700 miles ago. I have not noticed this sound in 11,000 miles so am not surprised that nobody else has picked up on it. My only other thought is that maybe it could be the pads moving back and forth in the caliper. Have you tried rocking the forks with the front wheel pushed up against a wall and the brakes released? I'd give it a go myself but the bike is 10mins away and it has just started chucking down! Simon | ||
| Blake |
Methinks y'all are hearing the normal workings of normal forks and/or brakes. Could be caused by any number or combination of stiction, valving, o-rings flopping, calliper slop... | ||
| Ara |
Simun and Sparky, Sparky had it all along, I just needed to hear Simon say it a certain way. It was the brake disk shifting in the carriers. The sound went away when I put the front wheel against the wall and did the test or away from the wall with the rear brake engaged. You gents saved me a BUNCH of rework, and I truly appreciate it. Sparky was right about the speedo cable, too, so a double-thanks for that. Let me pass something along here that I learned yesterday from my buddy who is a professional auto mechanic. You can use your almost-never-used-anymore timing light to visually check the function of throttle-body fuel injectors. Hook the light up as normal and with the air filter housing off and the engine running, shine the timing light down the throat of the throttle body and observe the pattern and consistency of the fuel being sprayed. The timing light will appear to freeze the action so your brain can interpret a "still picture." Shifting the pickup to different cylinders allows you to check different parts of the injection cycle, and twisting the throttle enables you to check the pattern when the cycles are rapid. Works for auto and motorcycle throttle body fuel injection. Now I know why I've kept that quarter-century old Sears timing light around all these years. Once again, thanks very much, guys. Russ | ||
| Ara |
A further question: The factory settings are 20 clicks on compression and 13 clicks on rebound, but is that 20 & 13 clicks IN or OUT? In other words is zero clicks all the OUT clockwise or all the way IN counter-clockwise? The manual is vague. (For reference I have a 97 S3 with upside-down forks.) Russ | ||
| Blake |
Per the service manual...
Twelve clicks is for the rebound (left fork), and twenty is for the compression (right fork). | ||
| Ara |
Thanks again, Blake! Russ | ||
| Blake |
My pleasure. Glad everything is okay. | ||
| Rocketman |
Russ: This was posted not 4 hours after your initial cry for help. Tuesday, November 06, 2001 - 09:13 pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Russ : Are you sure it isn't the rotor \ pins knocking on the carrier. You might notice this when the motor is running and you're stood still with the front brake applied and you can feel the vibration travel up to the bars. Rocket in England Was it my grammar ? Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
No silly, your floggin accent!  | ||
| Ara |
Rocket: It was't your grammar or accent, it was my own preconceptions. You see, I know the sound of the rotor rattling against the pins because I hear it all the time. That sound was not similar to the sound I was getting when I exercised the front suspension, so I assumed the "problem" lay elsewhere. The sound of the disk shifting vertically in the carrier is a lot different from the sound of the disk rattling horizontally against the pins. It may even be, as Simon suggested, the pads shifting in the caliper. Anyway, I'm very thankful for all the help I received here and even more thankful that I didn't have to tear the bike down again. Now that the front end is sorted out - particularly the steering head bearings - I am able to notice a bit of directional instability. Slightly more effort is required to turn left than right. I'm virtually certain that the rear axle has shifted a tiny bit and the wheels are therefore out of alignment. This has happened before. I torque the axle to spec every time with a click-type torque wrench, but it tends to slip. I think the pull of the belt pulls the pully side of the axel forward. Dare I exceed the torque spec to keep the axel in place??? For reference, this is a '97 S3 with the original swingarm. I just haven't gotten around to the recall stuff yet. Russ | ||
| Buellzebub |
not sure about the aluminum swingarms, but with the old steel ones the german torque spec [good n tite] works best for me s1 withdrawal sux | ||
| Ara |
Mine has the original steel swingarm, but I don't want to damage anything by applying too much torque. Evidently the factory spec isn't quite enough, but how much is too much? Russ | ||
| Stevep |
Russ, Make sure that your belt is not too tight. It will pull on the pully and cause the axle to move. It will also do damage to the front pully and bearings. I have seen bearing in the front pully that have walked out. Another couple hundred miles the transmission would have went with it. SteveP | ||
| Ara |
Steve: I've been pretty meticulous about belt tension, and have the little spring-loaded plunger gauge that Buell sells for the purpose. If there's a trick to this, I'd love to know it. Russ | ||
| Blake |
Ara: What makes you "virtually certain that the rear axle has shifted a tiny bit"? Each side has a positive stop mechanism (aluminum spacer-block with steel adjustment bolt and endcap) with locknut to prevent the real axle from slipping forward. It is prudent to make sure that stop is well seated and tightened. At 70 FT-LB torque the rear axle preload will be around 7000 LBs. Make sure you are tightening and are measuring torque on the nut, not the bolt side (put your backup wrench on the bolt side). A little anti-seize compound on the axle is also necessary to help achieve proper preload. You don't want any lubricant on the faying surfaces though. Belt tension IMO, should be at the loose end of the specified range. I'm not sure why you believe the rear axle is slipping. The factory preload is adequate (assuming we don't get anti-seize compound on the faying surfaces). You may want to think more about what changed since the last time you rode the bike... You had the forks off right? Might you do better to look at the front end for the source of your handling trouble? Just a suggestion. Blake | ||
| Rocketman |
Ay up lad. Doesn't tha 'no' t' sound ov frunt brake, ay ? Ee ba gum, yer a rum 'un  P'raps yew shud try ridin' ower yonder, t' deelers. Rocket from YORKSHIRE | ||
| Ara |
Blake: The symptom on my bike is that the swingarm end plate on the LEFT side is a tiny bit loose. Micrometer readings verify that the axle is minutely out of alignment - in the neighborhood of 1 mm. I've noticed this on previous occasions, and here it is again. It's as if the engine can't pull the left end of the axle forward because of the stop/adjustment hardware that you mentioned, but still works to change the axle position so that the right end is forward of the left end. Hasn't anybody else noticed this??? Your caution about getting anti-seize on the friction surfaces is a good one, and I'll follow up with a thorough inspection and parts cleaner. Thanks! Sir Rocket of Yorkshire: Laddie, the Harley-Davidson dealership in my town only just recently acquired a Buell franchise. I am reluctant to take my Buell to a mechanic who has so little experience with them. That dealership is not renouned for its service department, anyway. They have very few bikes on display and seem to specialize in selling clothing and gear. The H-D dealership I bought my bike from gave up their franchise because they got tired of being screwed by the factory, and the next closest Buell dealership is about two hours away. The soul remaining problem with my bike is both minor and mechanical, and I believe that with help from BadWeb I can solve it. Besides, I prefer to work on my own bike myself on the oft-proven theory that nobody will be as meticulous as the bike's owner. Russ | ||
| Blake |
Russ: If your left side end plate is loose, can you not tighten the locknut to snug it up? | ||
| Ara |
Blake: Sure! That would ensure that the tires STAY out of alignment, however. It wasn't loose the last time I adjusted the belt tension, so something is moving when it's not supposed to. Russ | ||
| Henrik |
Ara: Loosen the axle adjusters and push the axle forward. Tighten down the axle nut enough to hold the wheel in place - then adjust (tighten only) the axle adjusters until the wheel is straight (I measure from the swingarm pivot). Now tighten up the axle adjusters to correct belt tension and tighten the axle nut to specs. The trick is to only thighten the axle adjusters when adjusting. that way you keep tension on everything - if you try to keep the wheel pushed forward by hand and holding it in place while you torque everything up, the axle will shift. Henrik | ||
| Hans |
What Henrik said: And keep adjusting nut AND bolt fixed while locking up with the locknut. Three wrenches is what you need, three hands would be easy. With some luck the belt is running free from both flanks of the rear pulley. Hans. | ||
| Ara |
Thank you, Henrik. | ||
| Bomber |
Henrik . . .do I understand correctly that you measure fomr the swingarm pivot bolt? I am considering making a tool to do just that, but am unsure if the swingarm bolt heads arm fixed . . . I would think that they would move a little due to the isolators, but, as I've never had them apart (know on wood), I'm not sure . . . . . thanks for the help | ||
| Ara |
Bomber, Henrik: I discovered that if I dimpled the center of the end of a pair of hex-head bolts and fit the bolts head-first into the swingarm pivot bolts, I could more easily measure the distance between the rear axle and the swingarm pivot. It occurs to me that if a dowel of a diameter similar to the inside diameter of the hollow rear axle is used, the measurement would be even easier. Comments? Russ | ||
| Bomber |
Russ . . .I was gonna taper a couple of lengths of round aluminum stock to fit partway into the rear axle and swingarm bolts (self-centering) -- one peice will be fixed to a long length of smaller diameter aluminum rod, the other will be free to slide back and forth along it . . . .when one side matches the other, viola (I hope) the rear wheel will be straight . . . . the whole thing will look like a trammel compass, if that's any help wsith you're setup, I'd advie you taper the dowel to a point (doesn't have to be sharp) to make measuring easier | ||
| Henrik |
Bomber: yep, the swingarm bolts will move because of the rubber mounting, but they're also the axis around which the swingarm pivots and the wheel must be perpendicular to that axis. Ara: I like the dowel idea; I've been semi-eyeballing it, and dowels would make for an easy improvement. Someone is actually making a measuring device such as the one you're describing, Ara. Can't remember who right now. It's a rod on which two cones slide, and can be locked down with a thumbscrew. The cones fit into the hollow axles and pivots of most newer sportbikes, and because of the bevel, the cones will center themselves. Henrik |
