| Author | Message | ||
     Jlnance  |
Hello All - I received the attached letter today from Jim Meyer, my Riders Edge instructor. Jim's been riding a long time, I thought some of you here might know him. It's the sort of letter that should make me angry, but at the moment I just feel sad that a person as dedicated as Jim is getting screwed over. ------------------- To my motorcycling friends and former students, I'm writing to let you know about some recent actions by Harley Davidson that have caused me to reconsider my admiration of this company. If you care about the company, you'll write, like I have, and let them know your thoughts. As many of you know, since 2000 I have owned five Harley Davidson motorcycles including their excellent Ultra Electra Glide touring bikes and the powerful V-Rod. I was also, until just recently, an instructor in the Harley Davidson rider education program - Riders Edge (RE). More about this in a minute. To put what follows in context, let me give you some other information about me. I've been a motorcyclist for 49 years. I raced motocross professionally and I'm a lifetime AMA member. I've also been a certified safety instructor for the Motorcycle Safety Foundation for more than 12 years, including several years as a lead instructor. During this time, I've trained over 3,000 students to ride their motorcycles more safely. In 1999, I was named Outstanding Motorcycle Safety Foundation Instructor of the year. In 2004, I taught twenty-five Riders Edge classes for Ray Price Harley Davidson in Raleigh, NC. As program manager for that program, I have had to let several instructors go for poor performance or indifferent attitudes toward students. To me, safety of the students is paramount. It is essential that RE classes and instructors provide maximum effective learning so students leave with the skills necessary to survive among car drivers that are more intent on their cell phones than their driving. I feel that the effectiveness of the Riders Edge program is in jeopardy from poor management and too much emphasis on marketing over teaching students safety skills. First, the instructor training and certification program is poor quality. In 2001, I graduated from a five-day Rider's Edge Instructor training class in Orlando, FL. To become a RE instructor, one must be a certified Motorcycle Safety Foundation Instructor and attend a separate five-day RE class. The "students" in the RE instructor class consisted of many very experienced motorcycle safety instructors, like me, from across the country. Our instructors were Ms. Tami Greene and Ms. Marianne Taylor. To the horror of myself and the other experienced MSF instructors in the class, Ms. Greene, a Chief Instructor for the MSF, failed many times when attempting to demonstrate the simple figure-8 in a twenty foot box with the Buell Blast - the Riders Edge training motorcycle. This exercise is part of the student completion test for the RE program. In my RE classes, I have taken non-riders and had them successfully doing this exercise within five hours of instruction. Ms. Greene's comment was that it did not matter how well an instructor could ride or teach - they must let the students learn on their own. This is a horrifying opinion from the person who is in charge of the RE instructor training program. The "warm and fuzzy" approach of the Rider's Edge curriculum clearly shows their emphasis on selling motorcycles and accessories. We spent the week of instructor training doing things like drawing pictures on the floor and walls - lots of warm and fuzzy, but they taught us nothing about motorcycle instruction. One of the MSF instructors from Arizona summed it up when he said to me, "Why didn't they just send us a video and not waste our week pretending like we were in kindergarten." The end result is tragic for students. A few years ago, two students were killed taking the RE class up north. The 3,000 students that I've taught know I take a different approach. I'm not "warm and fuzzy." My responsibility is to teach my students to ride a motorcycle safely. Apparently, Ms. Greene doesn't like my responsible approach. Without any notice or a chance to respond to the allegations, I received the accompanying letter from Ms. Greene terminating my RE certification. Dismayed, I called her to find out why I had received this letter. She said that she had received numerous complaints from students about me. I asked for specifics and she would not provide any details or allow me to address the allegations. Contrary to her allegations my students have strongly endorsed my "safety first" attitude. I have attached some representative evaluations and notes from past students. Ms. Greene said other instructors had complained. They probably did. During my time as RE program manager, I have released four instructors for poor motorcycle instruction performance, unsafe actions on the range, for riding students on the back of training motorcycles, sexual harassment toward a woman student, and for not showing up for the classes they committed to teach. If getting rid of these types of instructors is "poor performance," the Rider's Edge program is doomed. Ms. Greene also implied that I had "problems" with the dealership. Unfortunately, this part is true - with one person in particular. The General Manager at the time (he has since been replaced) for Ray Price Harley Davidson, had been reading my personal e-mails. The e-mails related to [his] firing the best mechanic at the dealership for no good reason. (Incidentally, the mechanic who was fired was so good that he was hired the same day by another dealer). Because I considered the reading of my personal e-mails a clear violation of my first amendment rights, I brought [his] actions to the dealership's attention and told them I planned to quit working for the dealership. The dealership not only asked me to stay, but even gave me a 20% raise. Obviously, this left a bad taste in [his] mouth. Finally, Jeff Thompson (Rider's Edge Lead Instructor) visited our program last year. He scolded me for using a Buell Blast with an aftermarket exhaust on a demo bike during the range exercises. He claimed this was in violation of RE policy. I have never seen this written anywhere. Since the exhaust didn't cause any range safety issues and is a common upgrade by Harley owners, I can't imagine how this one event could result in termination of my instructor certification. Because of Ms. Greene's letter, I will not be able to work as a RE instructor for Ray Price HD or for any other HD dealer in the US. Surely taking away my livelihood, without giving me a chance to defend myself, is not the American way. What happened to justice - innocent until proven guilty. In 2003, RE students spent over $2 million on motorcycles and accessories from Ray Price HD. Management wants to step up the marketing and offer more classes and they appear to not be concerned about teaching students to safely ride motorcycles. This is very evident from the instructors they have brought back into the program - unfit and lazy instructors who stand around, like they're at a HOG meeting, and watch students try to learn on their own. This is irresponsible for safety instructors, but maybe it's the RE "warm and fuzzy" way. Because of this experience I've sold all my HD motorcycles and I recommend that prospective motorcycle safety students take the MSF class from their local community college rather than the Riders Edge program. They save $200 and get better instruction. This letter will be going to Jim McCaslin, President of Harley-Davidson, Eric McGraw and Willie G. Davidson. I'm asking HD to reinstate me so I can carry on to help protect future motorcycle riders. If you feel anything about the RE program and motorcycle instruction please write these guys and express your feelings. Jim McCaslin, President Harley-Davidson 3700 W. Juneau Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53208 Eric McGraw, Acting Director of Rider's Edge 3700 W. Juneau Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53208 Willie G. Davidson Harley-Davidson Product Development Center 11800 W. Capitol Drive Wauwatosa, WI 53222-1007 Sincerely, Jim Meyer | ||
| Buelldealer |
I don't know Jim Meyer, the true facts of his account, nor his agenda. But before making any judgments of the parties or dealership involved, keep in mind that there are always two sides in these types of stories. | ||
| Court |
>>>keep in mind that there are always two sides in these types of stories. Noted. This will be of some interest to follow. The letter makes, what appear to be, some credible and damning accusations. The writer tries, in the closing paragraphs, to erode the credibility he built up in the early part of the letter. It is not heard of for Harley-Davidson to have trainers who have little motorcycle experience. This, standing along, is not an indictment of any program. I'm keeping my mind and mailbox open. Court | ||
| Buelliedan  |
I don't know all the details about this particular incident but I can say this: I am a Certified MSF instructor myself. But I do not teach the Riders Edge program because of many of the same reasons he has stated. The RE program is more worried about selling P&A and service work at their shop than they are about teaching safety. The actual course is only 16 hours long yet RE takes 24 hours to teach. Yet there is no additional riding skills taught in that extra time. You do the math. | ||
| Gomo  |
Responding as MSF RiderCoach also, although new to the teaching; I have really only considered the RE course as a future option for additional training and perhaps have as a resume line item. I will be doing a early season riding safety course for the Dealership that sponsors our BRAG club, but it will be a "classroom/outdoor demo" only approach to inform and remind folks for the new riding season. Now if our dealership wanted to consider the RE course, I would have to consider all info about it (pro & con) before I would commit. Jim Meyer, sorry to hear about your experince, I hope it works out for you, but as you know well enough... The Safety comes first. (Message edited by gomo on January 09, 2005) | ||
| Reepicheep  |
Thats a damn lie! (There are *three* sides to every story, party one, party two, and the truth). Its absurd to say that you don't need good riding skills to be a great teacher. It's also absurd to say that great riding skills are anything but just one of many things necessary to be a great teacher. All obvious enough. One non-obvious thing, people taking the Harley sanctioned class will probably have VERY different goals then Buellers, or sportbikers. Many (not all) have paid a lot for a lifestyle that happens to include a motorcycle. 16 hours of MSF materials, plus 8 more hours of Harley specific stuff (whatever), may be too little extra stuff, rather then too much. (not that I would take the class though). Think about it. If there was a Buell specific class, would anyone complain about an extra 8 or 16 hours of material above the MSF stuff on sport riding gear, performance gear, heck, even on the history of Buell? I wouldn't. | ||
| Chainsaw  |
I thought the extra time in the RE class was focused on group riding particulars? I could be mistaken. I took the MSF course, which is partially subsidized by the state of CO, funded by and extra $1 per MC license. Cost me $120. As I recall the instruction was about 19 hours total over 1 night and 2 days. About 12 hours of that was on the bikes. | ||
| Buells Rule! (Dyna in disguise)  |
There are *three* sides to every story, party one, party two, and the truth Correct, but Dan also backs up the original post with But I do not teach the Riders Edge program because of many of the same reasons he has stated. The RE program is more worried about selling P&A and service work at their shop than they are about teaching safety. Bottom line for HD is making money, its not about riding, freedom, etc. | ||
| Anonymous |
I was a program manager and the main focus of my classes were riding skill, unfortunatly H-D made it's atempt at marketing thru the class, They wanted us to change the learn to ride video from MSF which showed all kinds of bikes and brands being used to a H-D one that showed only H-D bikes. I refused to use the video, because we had people that owned multiple bikes or were not H-D owners and maybe would be if not pushed into the brand. My approach worked and more studesnts that didn't own H-D bikes or Buells returned to the dealership more than some HOG memebers did. I just wish all dealers did it and didn't think of it as a profit margine for them but more of a service to the motorcyling comunity. (Left annony for personel reasons please respect that) | ||
| Lake_bueller  |
I'm not an instructor nor have I taken the RE course. However, based on the overwhelming postive response I've heard from many of my fellow riders and their spouses, I've signed up my wife for the course this spring. My main reasons are: 1)to have her learn on a Blast (already bought a bike for her); 2) Smaller class sizes I hope her experience isn't as bad as the above posts. | ||
| Wyckedflesh  |
It appears the RE course here, is done in cooperation with the group that offers the MSF course. | ||
| Jlnance |
Dennis - As the one who started this thread, I would hate for you to walk away from this discussion thinking you shouldn't take the Riders Edge class. If I didn't think so highly of my RE experience, I wouldn't have been upset enough to start the thread. I suspect your wife will have a great time and learn a lot. Jim PS: I love that avatar | ||
| Blake |
I've heard nothing but good things from the RE graduates I've talked to.
In my succeeding years of experience managing projects, I have found the above observation to be 100% accurate. | ||
| Motoboss |
After reading the post's on this subject I felt compelled to weigh in and express a few ideas. Number one, is what Harley-Davidson is doing with Riders Edge different than any other manufacturer? Do not the Japanese companies sell to the dirt crowd at the earliest of ages? They all have "Dirt School's" for riders as young as five years old. Is this not an attempt to get prospective customers emotionally attached to their product at an early age in order to make a lifetime commitment to their products?? In the motorcycling industry manufacturers must introduce products to the youngest generation possible in order to "grow" their own fan base thereby maintaining a future sales market. Most riders do not just say one day "Hey, I want a motorcycle" out of the blue. Exposure at an early age is the foundation for adult decision's. Motorcycling is a choice people make for recreation and enjoyment not a necessity. Every manufacturer of every product ever made attempts this end. Being bombarded by commercials as a youngster now has us as adults buying those very products we saw when we were young. Harley- Davidson, being a world leader in both product and image, has attempted to expand their share in a positive and educational manner. Point two, the Rider's Edge program that most see as strictly a sales tool, uses the same exact MSF (Motorcycle Safety Foundation) training program and curriculum, period. The classroom subjects and range exercise's are the same in every program, with few exceptions. All that has been added in hours is additional interactive classroom time and increased range seat time, period. Is more in-depth explanation and understanding of motor skills, theory and concepts a bad thing? By increasing seat time, thereby, giving the student more experience in motorcycle skills a bad thing? The Rider's Edge program varies by using the Harley-Davidson products to gain a stronger brand recognition. Does this mean their products are not safe or are less safe than any other bike or protective gear being used, NO! Remember, Harley-Davidson was one of the original founding members of MSF. Their concern and commitment for safety is paramount first and above all other concerns or agendas. Is it rational to think they would want to endorse or provide any training that would damage both their reputation, image or future customer base? Not likely. Item three. Remember, students signing up for Riders Edge classes "WANT" to be there. With all the other training revenues available taking the Rider's Edge Class is their confirmation they want to be involved with the Harley-Davidson Experience and in the Harley-Davidson lifestyle. There is no marketing or "selling" of products to these people because they have sold themselves on this relationship to this brand prior to coming through the door. And the cost of this program is proof of that commitment! People are not as gullible as we tend to want to believe. All students who enter the Rider's Edge program are doing so knowing what they want, and that is a premium experience and a close relationship to this particular product. This is a free choice of the individual and not some grand underlying scheme to sell to some unknowing person something they don't want or need. It's FREEDOM OF CHOICE! Now, having said all that, I feel sympathy for Mr. Meyer. He obviously has a strong commitment to rider education. I do however feel he has failed to see the Riders Edge Instructor Training for what it is. Knowing that the basic MSF curriculum is taught intact, it is a training session for instructors based on the Adult Learning Model. That is, every student learns in different ways ie; technical explanations -vs- seeing it done -vs- hands on. The "warm and fuzzy" is just a varied method of how to teach students with a different approach of presentation. Agreed, some of it may seem juvenile and immature but is not this the true meaning of "novice" or "beginner"? Establishing students comfort level, confidence and trust in order to enhance learning is the goal! When the current MSF Basic Rider Course was introduced it was considered un-presentable and incomplete as written and should not be used. It has proven it's self over and over again to make safe, responsible riders out of non riders. If instructors Mr. Meyer fired couldn't present the Riders Edge program undoubtedly they could not have done any better in any other program and should have been let go. I feel more than anything Mr. Meyer is at conflict with his dealership or personnel not Riders Edge Training. Unfortunately, dollars are the root of some programs but with a safety committed Program Manager running the program correctly, dollars should play a much lesser role. As Program Manager if he could not get his dealership to grasp this idea, Riders Edge is not at fault, it's the dealership. I find it disheartening he has placed blame on the whole of Harley-Davidson and the Riders Edge Program for his current situation. I can only hope this is resolved correctly and honestly by all parties because we need committed individuals such as him. As has been stated, there are three sides to every story so take in all accounts for consideration before final judgment. Finally, Riders Edge is new, plain and simple. It has taken years for motorcycle education to grow into the success it has become but it has a long way to go to become "perfect". This program is but an honest attempt by a committed manufacturer to help in this progression. Just because it's different and product biased does not mean it does not work and cannot improve, but can't we all say that about ourselves? It is human nature to deny, denounce or destroy something we do not understand. Oh yeah, if you have not already guessed, I am an MSF instructor, Rider's Edge Certified and Program Manager for a Rider's Edge Program. I am also President and Founder of United Sport Bike Association where we are Track Day Providers aimed at on track rider education. I currently own three Buells and six other motorcycles of various make. I have been riding for over thirty years and take rider education very seriously. "Ride Smart-Ride Safe" (Message edited by motoboss on January 09, 2005) (Message edited by motoboss on January 09, 2005) (Message edited by motoboss on January 09, 2005) | ||
| Kevyn  |
I completed an 'advanced/experienced' riders course that was sponsored by a local community college and taught by instructors from a local chapter of the Honda Sport Touring Association. Maximum emphasis on safety at all times. I also participated in and completed a HD sponsored RE program...ya, we were encouraged to browse the store to obtain items missing from our pre-riding checklist but the emphasis was certainly on safety. The instructors were able to demonstrate each activity on the course looking smooth and practiced. I'm certain there is a wide variation in course experiences, student to student, course to course and dealership to dealership. Choose carefully...? Watch the course/drills being taught, see if it fits your needs. Talk to the instructors see if they can communicate clearly...commit yourself to learning as much as possible during the course and commit to performing the riding drills to the best of your present abilities. Enjoy the social experience while it lasts and concentrate on successfully completing the training portions. Remember that the very basic skills being taught in the RE program will form the foundations for your successful and safe two-wheeled journey through life! | ||
| Cpmorey |
I took the RE course in Houston at Mancuso HD-B. They "threw it into the deal" when I bought my 9S 2 years ago. The course and instructors were 1st class in my book. I had been riding off-road since about age 5, and figured there wasn't much I could learn. I was sorely mistaken, and glad I had a chance to take the course. | ||
| Shak |
I'm going to voice up in here and try and keep it short. I follow the board off and on but have not been registered until now. First let me explain who I am and then you can form your opinion from that. I am a previous student of Jim's as well as one of the instructors that worked for him and also his friend. So, some may say I have a bias, but all I can tell is the situation as I see it. To address some earlier comments, yes there are usually many sides to a story and you have heard Jim's. Unfortunately, the corporate RE program has refused to release any information to Jim or to the press. (Yes, a reporter has inquired as to his dismisal). There are 5 Disiplinary Actions that the program may take against and instructor (at their discretion); Warning, Temporary suspension, Termination. Reimburse for damages, criminal & civil. The harshest action was taken against him with no reason other than "It has come to our attention through various sources that you have exhibited behaviors that are in violation of the Harley-Davidson Rider's Edge New Rider's Course Code of Conduct.". No, explanation, no chance to respond to allegations. I taught at least 20 classes with Jim last year alone, and I can attest that he has never exhibited anything but professionalism in regards to teaching, the program and the students. If he was in violation of the Code of Conduct then I suspect every instructor out there is as well. Remember the no reason for dismissal, I suspect this comes into play later. To address a second point, from reading some of the posts, I think there may be some misunderstanding. Jim is a firm believer in formal training whether it is strictly MSF based or RE. His concern is with "poor management" at the top as he stated in his letter and an ever increasing push of marketing and sales over safety. Yes, it is insane to think that HD or the dealership does not want to make sales out of it as well. I think that the $2 million stated in the letter attest to the fact that it does work. I sat in a meeting with a "future" program manager that stated "do not fail a student but pull them and place them in another class". In other words, we don't want someone to be unhappy even if they do not have the ability to ride a motorcycle. As for the instructors, I am personally aware of two of the instructors that were released from the program. One, was not even let go but quit in the middle of a class. I received an e-mail from him stating that he was sick of the whole "Harley Experience" and the dealership as a whole. The second was let go after cancelling 2 classes at the last minute. This person was only scheduled for 3 that year and couldn't show for two. The others let go I can not speak of personally so I will let them go. To put a bow around all of this, I was one of the first people to see Jim's dismissal letter. I was "warned" that I would probably get a call for a meeting at the dealership which I did shortly thereafter. Much to my amazement, went I walked in the front doors to the dealership, there were the four instructors who were let go. The General Manager who was mentioned in the letter is now assuming the position of Program Manager. Couple this group of individuals with the silence of the RE main office over the cause for dismissal, The fact that Jim can teach at no other HD in the world (in otherwords, the competitor down the street) and I'll leave you to form your own opinion. I had not announced it until now, but I'm sure this post will get back to them. As a result of this whole scenario, I will no longer be instructing there as well. I do not have respect for the instructors that are back now, either professionally or personally. I hope I am wrong on this one but I forsee the integrity of that particular program being compromised and my hope is that no one gets injured as a result. Ride safe and thanks for reading. -Shak | ||
| Sportsman |
FWIW. I never took any course My son took riders edge My girlfriend took MSF course. With riding with them both, I believe we are letting people on the street that are barely capeable of going in a straight line let alone ready for an emergency no matter about brand. HD uses it for a sales tool, so what? As long as it doesn't interfere with learning how to ride. I have to agree with Mr. Meyer. He probably has realized how important it is for a rider to get it right everytime. Mistakes can get very ugly in a split second and brand promo shouldn't be an instructors focus. (Message edited by sportsman on January 09, 2005) | ||
| M2nc |
I took the course at the community college. It was excellent and the instructors were first rate. Our instructors were a husband and wife team from Virginia. I saw them take a woman that literally could not walk the bike down range, and teach her to do the figure-eight exercise. I also know someone who is an HD nut and he went to Ray Price for the Riders Edge course. Other than one small complaint because the Blast was too small for him (could not do the figure eight because his legs were in the way) he loved it. I think if you are an HD nut, do it on the Buells. If you want to know what else is out there, go to the community college. (One nod to the community college, many types of bikes for many sizes of people.) | ||
| Jlnance |
Welcome to badweb Mark | ||
| Along4theride  |
I grew up riding dirt bikes with my brothers and when I wanted to ride a streetbike I took the riders edge course offered at Stone Mtn. HD in Georgia. I compared the instructors and course material with several others in the area before making my decision to attend. I was VERY impressed by my instructors and the amount of attention they paid to 'safety first' and I would recommend it and the instructors I had to anyone and everyone that wants to learn how to ride a bike. Yes they did give us a tour of the dealership and offer a discount on items we purchased while we were in the program but that was the last of the sales pitch. The rest of the time it was all about riding safely and responsibly. My humble opinion is there are bad apples everywhere. It would be nice if adults were adults and everyone had their priorities straight but that isn't how the real world works- as we all know. From the above letter it does sound like many things transpired that were very unfair but life isn't fair, it's about politics and egos and the good guy almost always comes in last. I wish Jim well and I do hope he gets some resolution that will allow him to continue to educate and contribute to the motorcycle community. I don't know about the future of RE nationally but if anyone wants to take a course with some 'safety first' experienced instructors by all means come to GA for a week, it would be well worth it!! St. Mtn HD still has the right mind set in promoting safe riding. Considering the attitude of the dealership owner and the program director I don't think that will be changing anytime soon. (Message edited by along4theride on January 10, 2005) | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
I second your testimony Rebecca, my RE class at St. Mtn HD/B could be described exactly the same. My instructors were not RE-exclusive...they also taught for other dealers and taught Standard MSF courses as well. Both were very competent, and I can't remember an exercise that either had to repeat in demonstration. They were definitely good ambassadors for the Riders Edge staff. BTW- thanks for the excellent Sales Dept tour Torquer/Pete! | ||
| Budo  |
A friend of mine, a woman, took the riders edge class because the MSF class was full and there were no openings for quite a while. Her impression was that the Riders Edge class would pass anyone. My bike club was invited to take a Riders Edge advanced class, which many of us did. The instructor was very experienced, a retired police motorcycle instructor. He was also biased toward HD and in my opinion did very little instructing. One of they guys in the group was having trouble with the slow speed drill, he was riding a BMW K1200s. The instructor said to everyone 'Those BMW's just don't handle, that's why Police dept's use Harley Davidsons'. This was said to a very expereinced group of riders, people who had multiple bikes of different brands, who had track time, some of whom had raced. This instructors credibility fell quite a bit with that statement. Not to menton that it was unprofessional. | ||
| Dale |
The purpose of teaching someone to do something hazardous, is to let them learn at there own pace without getting hurt. Keep them in their own abilities while letting them learn & expand on those abilities. You cannot teach people how to road race in 20 hours. However, you can teach someone to teach themselves in that time. Not everyone has the same skills. We all ride differently. That does not mean I'M safer then the new person. It is not necessary to yell at people to teach safety. Flunking someone is a reflection on your ability to teach not their ability to learn how to do something safely. Dale, Former Skydiving Instructor | ||
| Uncbuell  |
Wow. I am also a graduate of Jim Meyer's RE class and I would just like to state that Jim is one of the most honest men that I have ever met. As a RE instructor, Jim's #1 priority was the safety of the students. The man is an excellent instructor, and it is the HD RE program that is losing in this situation. | ||
| Shak |
In reference to your post Dale, Sure, that's great thinking that a person can learn at their own pace in a class. The problem with that is there are time constraints set by the MSF (and the number of hours in the day) for each exercise (of course they are not hard guidelines and some exercises, more time is spent than others). Because of the building block procedure, it is necessary for the student to complete the objectives of one exercise, before moving on to the next. Now, multiply that by 12 students of different levels. You can quickly run out of time. "Flunking" someone is not necessarily a reflection on anyones ability. You have failed as a teacher only if you have not tried your best to help that person succeed, but you also fail the other students if too much time is spent on remedial teaching with one student. The fact is, some people do not have the ability to successfully complete the class in the time frame for multiple reasons (#1 being clutch control). Allowing a student to continue on in the hopes that they will "figure it out on their own" in a more advanced exercise can lead to injury of the student and/or others. As a skydiver, what instruction would you like for that pilot who takes you up for your next jump (and you've forgotten your chute)? The motor skills required to pilot a plane are only slightly more than that to operate a motorcycle. | ||
| Stealthxb  |
I like Dale's post... Flunking someone is a reflection on your ability to teach not their ability to learn how to do something safely. Anyone can learn the basics of safe motorcycle operation. However IMHO very few should immediately take this knowledge to the streets! It takes a special mentality to pilot a machine with as much power as today's motorcycles. In a closed course environment any competent human being with balance can complete the tasks necessary for passing the class! And if they don’t get it the first time, yet have the will to come back…they are special. And they deserve the opportunity because they are willing to take advantage of it. The first time on a motorized bike is just plain scary for most people. To conquer that fear requires a trait that many do not possess. But it is all in your mind. You must overcome your fears, defy instinct and trust a machine. These are things many people have difficulty with. It is the responsibility of the instructor to deal with each individual on their personal level and to do whatever is necessary to build confidence in that individual. The class provides the skills that form the foundation of any riders experience and it is up to the instructor to make it a positive experience for every individual involved. Yes, the drills may be boring to those who have ridden before. But how many times have you gone to a parking lot to embed the muscle memory into your mind to a point where you act instinctively in a given scenario? Probably not many. However, in the class you drill, drill, drill until everyone gets it right. That way, when one enters a situation in the wild...they can react. These drills prepare you for the exam. And this exam is the only time during the entire weekend where you are graded. It doesn’t matter how much difficulty you had during the class! You can drop the bike time after time, if you have the will to keep trying you still have a chance. If you can pass the test, you have the basic skills necessary to ride a motorcycle. If not...I am all about giving someone the opportunity to go home, consider the venture and come back for another class if they still have the desire to learn this sport. Because once you have formed this foundation you gain confidence in your abilities and a trust for the machine…then you continue to build you abilities on this foundation; and eventually you’re prepared for flight! You can continue to learn by pushing yourself. This is the same thing you had to do in order to get in the class in the first place…push yourself. Push yourself into respecting the machine and yourself. Just f-ing do it! I promise you will be a better rider because of it! No excuses are acceptable. If you don’t have time, then you don’t have time to ride. If you don’t have the money, you should find another pastime! Anyway… As for the topic at hand: No matter what game you play in life, you have to play by the rules. This is extremely important when working with large corporations. You can push it...trying to shape and improve the game for others. Unfortunately, as soon as you cross the line...you are susceptible to losing your place on the team. Kind of like crossing a double yellow! It sucks...but it is a necessary evil as we all have bills to pay! To Jim Meyer... It sounds to me like you have your priorities in order. Mold the system from within. Define the confines of this system by working with it...not against. I certainly hope this does not affect your ability and your desire to work as an instructor in the future as indicated in your letter. Having someone in a position of power influence your livelihood with their personal agenda is a tough one to swallow! And it seems as though you have something extremely special to offer our community! Ride on...and continue to help others feel the friction zone because your impact will last a lifetime. And sure… I received a skewed view of the motorcycle community in Riders Edge. I would not expect otherwise as Harley Davidson funded the program! But I also got a discount on gear and got to know some of the guys at the dealer a little better; meanwhile proving to them as well as myself that I was serious about riding. This allowed me access to the inner circle of true riders at and around the dealer. This continues to reap benefits in the service and parts departments, and goes far beyond anything I could begin to convey at this time. geek Best of all, I got beat on my own personal thumper (engineered by Erik Buell himself) for an entire weekend! Now if they would only get their 5hit together with the Advanced Rider Course I would get to go at it on my Lightning!  I had a great experience @ RE. This class was worth every penny and then some as far as I am concerned. Us 3%ers have even put together a RE Scholarship fund for friends and family considering taking the controls. And I will continue to tell everyone who is considering riding not to straddle a bike until the class is completed! Regardless of how much experience they have on "dirt bikes" et cetera. We have heard it all! And that •••• is meaningless when you have a V-twin or Inline4 between your legs bombing down the asphalt. I learned the hard way. Broken and busted...bike and self...physically and financially! If you are gonna ride on the streets...PREPARE YOURSELF! Get as much gear as you can afford and drill every section required for passing your test. Both of these prerequisites for riding will save your @ss and other various parts! Own the machine...don't lease a sure ticket to the hospital or the morgue. 5hit is gonna happen out there and you gotta be on point to deal with it. I will leave you with the words of a very wise rider...my mentor and my hero... We miss you buddy! "Stay loose weight the peg look ahead what is here now is already here what's next needs to be sorted out" -Torqer | ||
| Stealthxb |
Wow... It's late and I gotta man the machine in a few hours. Do I keep going or do I give in? I guess the best way not to stop is to avoid the brakes! So I am not done yet!!! HAHA Just Kidding Enjoy ;> | ||
| Roc  |
Shak - I agree with you 100%. You either release a student, often they have the option to return at no additional cost to them, or you fail 11 of them. Primary reasons I've seen for release: #1 - clutch control #2 - students showing up late | ||
| Koz5150  |
When I took the MSF course there were 24 students and I think less then half were passed by the instructor. In Wisconsin if you pass the class you are exempt from taking an On the Road test for your license. You still must pass a written test given at the DMV. | ||
| Dale |
Showing up late is not taking the coarse. Continuing at no cost to student is not failing. | ||
| Dale |
Showing up late is not taking the coarse. Continuing at no cost to student is not failing. | ||
| Bomber  |
as someone imvolved in education, I'll state categorically, the vast majority of students will value the education in direct proportion to the cost of said education -- if the class is "free" (in quotes, cuz nothing is for free), the number of late arrivals, no shows, and grab-•••• players increases exponentially this is all good data on RE, as I plan on sending my daughter to it this spring -- the state programs in ILL fill up in nano-seconds, and I can actually speak to the RE instructors (this is in no way a poke at the MSF instructors in ILL, they do a great job, but are caught up in paperwork, political nonsense, and generally overworked) -- RE will let my kid get more attention form the instructor, it's at a dealership I'm familiar with, has her on a bike that is more like what she'd be riding on the street, and, best of all, it's available! | ||
| Sportsman |
Bomber, get and old cheap POS dirt bike. Like right now! She'll take the course and be legit to ride, but your heart will be in your throat everytime she goes out. Save yourself from this worry and after she gets her licence, make her go to a field and push her till she falls off. Make it fun, you know, I can do it faster kind of thing, but only by 2 seconds. Once it happens, she has respect that it hurts, she'll have the whole clutch thing understood, and you'll feel like she's leaving in a car when she pulls out. Worked for me anyway. |
