| Author |
Message |
    
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 05:03 am: | 
|
>>>Court - did u get to ride it?
No. We had the MT-01 and the NAS as centerpeices (which they are ideally suited for) at a party.
The bikes are but conversation pieces and regardless of what Honda or Yamaha say, they've no intention of building the bikes I saw.
Think of it this way, yoiu could use your 3D computer modeling program to make a really spiffy gal. Would you marry her?
These bikes would be terribly priced out of the market with performance on part with a CL77.
Court |
Ethanr
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 05:15 am: |
|
Spatten1->It is about time that the Japanese cruiser engines made it to a sport-standard.
Suzuki used to make just such a bike...it's one of the bikes on my short list of "must own some day" machines: the VX800. It had a bored version of the Intruder engine. I rode one back in 1990 when they first introduced it and it was a real hoot! I had trouble keeping the front wheel down and it gave me a rather Buell-like grin. Wish I'd had the $$ to buy it at the time. They only made it for 3 or 4 years due to poor sales.
<http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/pages/reviews/vx8004_97.htm> |
Geoffg
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 11:14 am: |
|
Spatten1->It is about time that the Japanese cruiser engines made it to a sport-standard.
Here's another one. |
Bcordb3
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 11:25 am: |
|
Court,
These bikes would be terribly priced out of the market with performance on part with a CL77.
Meaning it has the performance of a Honda 305?} |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 01:36 pm: |
|
I don't see the MT-01 as in competition with Buell, unless you consider it a hooligan bike or a hot rod. The prototype was a good looking bike, but the final product gained a lot of visual weight and just looks chunky. Perhaps I will change my opinion when I finally get to see one, but I am not holding my breath.
I do however see the MT-01 as a Harley competitor. The StreetFighter concept illustration commissioned by Cycle World based on the V-Rod would be a much better apples-to-apples comparison.
I think the only disadvantage would be Harley's assumed MSRP vs the Low Ball entry price Yamaha is tossing around.
I like the Harley version a lot better for a number of reasons. However, if given my druthers, I would jump on the Super StreetTracker that Harley commissioned Glynn Kerr to illustrate for them.
Heck, I like that bike so much I made it my avatar as a constant reminder to the folks from HD and BMC that monitor this sight that I will buy the first one made. Dang, I would even take the prototype if one exists!!!
Incidentally, I don't perceive either of these Harley based concept bikes as competition for Buell. They are comfortable hot rod bikes, not the canyon carvers Buell makes. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 01:53 pm: |
|
How did this...
End up looking like this...
Or worse yet, this...
How do you say fat'n'ugly in Japanese.  |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 02:40 pm: |
|
I'll ask a friend of mine who's into the jap anime about how to say that. Cause I agree.
Now, I would love to see HD cram that VROD engine into something like that street fighter picture. Hell, I'd buy one. I doubt it would be under the HD name though. Wouldn't fit into their image. I have a feeling Buell would get that one. Though, you never know. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 03:41 pm: |
|
The Japanese haven't figured it out yet.
Their engineers may have, but by the time it gets to production, all the fun has gone out of it.
The main reason the Japanese won't ever make it in this market (IMHO) is because they feel they must make a billion of said bikes to be successful. If you can't flood the market with your bike you must be doing something wrong. I'm glad Erik doesn't feel this way. |
Mikej
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 03:50 pm: |
|
I believe Erik would be overjoyed to flood the market with Buells. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 05:38 pm: |
|
>>>I believe Erik would be overjoyed to flood the market with Buells.
That is an accurate statement. |
Burnmyheartdown
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 07:54 pm: |
|
That Yamaha has one redeeming element in my opinion. The way that the speedo and tach are integrated into one thing. If it went production like that, I think that would be way cool. Maybe confusing at first, but I think if you were used to it it'd definitely be cool. Everything else makes me sick. |
Ben_jamminvfcc
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 08:21 pm: |
|
Wow...that thing's a tank.
It all started going downhill once they made that shock into a standard mount. |
Lpowel02
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 08:48 pm: |
|
man...that pic from the front is bad...that thing really is a tank |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 09:02 pm: |
|
That shock isn't a standard mount. It is underneath the engine. It is covered by that sliver plate in the picture so you can't see it. I think it is better to be at the currently location than at the middle of the bike as on their prototype. |
Buells Rule!
(Dyna in disguise)
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 09:07 pm: |
|
Would really suck if the bike came with the linkage on the prototype & if you somehow managed to snap a mount. Pierce your leg real good. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 09:12 pm: |
|
I believe Erik would be overjoyed to flood the market with Buells.
No what I meant is that, I'm glad that Erik didn't feel that since he wasn't going to cater to biggest market possible it wasn't worth doing. That just because the market isn't flooded with Buells doesn't mean he sin't successful.
Me, I'm glad to ride a niche bike, I'm a niche kinda guy... |
Glitch
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 09:35 pm: |
|
Now I'm taking it for granted the front tire on each bike are the same height.
It'll be real interesting to see 'em side by side for real. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 04, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
|
Hmmm, I believe the Buell looks better/more at home doing that.... I'm just out on a limb here though. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 11:40 am: |
|
Glitch...Great comparison pics!
FYI, I signed up last year for the MT-01 email advisories and Yamaha seldom uses a pic where you can really get a feel for the size and styling used on the bike. Usually, all smoke'n'mirrors stuff.
Now that Yamaha has made their initial press intro in South Africa, the press is doing us all a favor by showing pics at the angles Yamaha hid from the world.
Dollars to Donuts, either an XB9 or XB12 should spank that thing in almost all riding situations and the few where the MT-01 would excel are relatively useless in the real world. Then, that is based on the little I have read and seen of the MT-01.
Concerning the V-Rod based StreetFighter, I still don't see that as a Buell Product. Buell makes sporting machines and Harley makes Porkers. As the MT-01 appears to be a Stylin' Porker I am confident that Harley is better positioned in the market to produce a competitive bike.
Heck, the both Harley and the aftermarket already have the performance parts and bling bling for sale. Wouldn't take but a few extra chrome accessories added to the line to personalize the StreetFighter if they decide to make one. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 12:38 pm: |
|
Thanks Outrider!
It took me a while to find a good comparison.
Here's another, again taking it for granted the front tires are the same height.
It'll be interesting to see if it comes here, and how well it does if it does come here. If the bike mags say it's the best street bike this side of East Troy, and it don't sell, maybe they'll realize just how little power they have over what sells and what won't. I know...I know...I'm young and an idealist...
I'd still love for there to be a motorcyclist mag that concentrates on The Ride and not necessarily bikes...
 |
Daves
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 01:08 pm: |
|
Court,
I LOVE the picture of the City X in the alley.
Buell should use that for an ad!
If they won't, can I? |
Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 01:33 pm: |
|
I'd still love for there to be a motorcyclist mag that concentrates on The Ride and not necessarily bikes...
"Rider" and the old "Road Rider" (Now MCN) did. Rider is still the best, in reference to ride stories and columns, in the US market but is a far cry from what it used to be.
Incidentally, this is not a rant on the new "Rider." They had to change their format a tad to keep interest up. Just so many of the "Zen of the Ride" articles you can read before they all look alike.
I think Tuttle has done a good job and I can't live without Salvadore's and Grodsky's columns. Clement has always keep you dreaming of places to go and things to do. On the other hand, Larry keeps you thinking about riding technique and safety.
Of interest, the US MC mags pretty much agreed back around 1990 that AAA and other publications available at your local book store already did a great job of covering the tourist thing in reference to scenic roads and attractions. After that is when you started to see the ride articles evolve into more of a performance/shoot-out/bike comparo emphasis.
Today, if you want a greater emphasis on the ride, you would be best buying the books available from Whitehorse Press. Lots of good material available to get anyone through a long hard winter. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 02:21 pm: |
|
Yeah....dig some of the others I'm after.
Under the NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE - "invest wisely"
In front of CARNEGIE HALL - "outstanding performance"
In front of the APOLLO THEATER - "star performer"
Here.
Try out my "Timeless Design" poster.....
 |
M1combat
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 02:26 pm: |
|
YEah...
Nice pic Court  . It's my new background for both Linux AND Windows . |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 02:37 pm: |
|
That Yamaha looks like a lego kit  |
Mikej
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 02:39 pm: |
|
(Message edited by mikej on January 05, 2005) |
Outrider
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 02:55 pm: |
|
If you get a chance, read the MT-01 article penned by Roland Brown in Motorcyclist a few times while ignoring the pics and sidebars.
He really doesn't sound very excited at all about it. In fact, his commentary is so lackluster that it makes me feel even better about my X1. Can't wait to see what the other mags have to say about it.
Personally, I feel the concept is valid. In as much as I am not liking the pics and prose of production MT-01 as much I did the prototype, I am still in the wait and see mode.
Still, I feel Harley could do a much better job of it, but probably won't until the MT-01 proves itself as a good seller in the USA. |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 03:08 pm: |
|
Court, you need to make a thread with all the pics you've taken of the City X in the City. Some of those are just really neat to look at. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 03:17 pm: |
|
Awsome shot Court. For about $70 or so, you can get a screw on wide angle adapter for your 950 that gets killer shots, I love mine. You loose use of the flash (which I am loathe to use in the first place), but for non dark shots it allows killer angles, and lets the foreground and background merge painlessly. |
Hkwan
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 04:34 pm: |
|
Who's got Bike Magazine (from England)? Looks like it has a full review on MT-01. Just spotted that on the rack and had no time to flip through the pages. |
Bomber
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 05, 2005 - 05:06 pm: |
|
years ago, I spoke to an industrial designer friend (Japanese native moved to the USA) about why so many japanese products looked so, well, cluttered --
That yammie would look much better in it's original form, I think, and even better after it spent a winter in the Entropy Lab, having things removed, simplified and drilled fulla holes
my friend explained it this way -- Japan is a small country, and the chances you have for getting further away from an object to view it in it's entirety are few (espeically cars) -- the naturaly tendancey is to make the object more interesting to see up close -- hence, the plethora of details, knick knacks, and boogers hanging off what is, at it's core, a clean design -- this habit translates to most everything that's designed in Japan -- just a little fussier than it has to be
he may have been making this up for the round-eyed, big nosed devil, but it scans well, and makes sense |
Typeone
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 08:00 pm: |
|
Outrider, are you talking about Roland Browns 'first ride' article in the Feb 05 issue of Motorcyclist? I got a very different impression if you are. That mag seems to give the MT-01 a glowing review and want it badly here in the US (i read it very quickly on the train ride home).
Personally i think the thing (MT-01) was destroyed compared to the prototype. Looks like a PIG to me. I was pissed after reading that article too, especially the minor comment made by John Hoover, COO of the AMA... "The MT-01, Kawasaki's Z1000 and even the Buells are in the same category. They're built for the European market because of the naked-bike phenomenon." I agree that the 'naked-bike phenomenon' has taken off in the EU before it has here in the states but come on, why say 'and even the Buells'.
I hate how these mags always seem to talk down to or act surprised that Buell is a player in that market. The XBs are absolutely beautiful streetfighters (with innovations to boot!) compared to whats out there, and i'm new to this brand!
(Message edited by typeone on January 06, 2005) |
Ben_jamminvfcc
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 09:51 pm: |
|
I'd say Buell is the prototypical production streetfighter. |
Newxb9er
| | Posted on Thursday, January 06, 2005 - 10:20 pm: |
|
Court-Just a thought. I would put your mark on the picture, so it's yours. Never know when you see it being used publicly(although by Buell would be a good thing!)without your permission. |
Jerseyguy
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 08:49 am: |
|
That Yam is lumpy, heavy looking and downright ugly IMHO. |
Tucsonxb9s
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 09:37 am: |
|
I still see a little S1 in the design. Little tank and lots of motor, albeit a lot more cluttered. I still have to wait to actually get to see on in person before I pass my final grade. Until then, I'll be riding my XB!  |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 09:43 am: |
|
Well, Brian... I'm hoping that you'll be riding your XB after you see one in person too . |
Outrider
| | Posted on Friday, January 07, 2005 - 09:46 am: |
|
Typeone...Yep, same article. First time I read it, I scanned the article I was semi-impressed. Then I read it slowly and got a laugh out of it.
RB used all the standard cliches but didn't include the hype words an enthusiastic motojournalist normally does. Relate what he says to your own experiences with your Buell or other bikes and you will get my drift.
Concerning the MT-01, it won't be until the dyno runs, other performance tests and a shoot-out or two are done by two or more MC Mags that any solid conclusions can be made. However, based on what I have read, even on Yamaha's MT-01 website, I am not impressed.
Even though it is a different platform, the MT-01 just sounds like another V-Max muscle bike and we all know they are not as adept at much beyond wheelies and short drags. I have little doubt that Harley can (if they choose to) put the MT-01 to shame with a V-Rod StreetFighter.
I also took offense to Hoover's comparison. Doesn't sound like the man knows much about the industry that pays his salary. Then when you are looking to say something good about a bike you know little about, one seems to interview the weirdest sources. That is no Buell and neither would an equivalent StreetFighter from Harley be.
Personally, I liken the MT-01 as an old man's bike. You know, someone my age that grew up on weird handling bikes, but isn't into the twisties anymore. Thank God, I am still a street wise adolescent when it comes time to run the tight stuff. LOL
Other than some torque and a different look, I really don't see where the MT-01 is better than my X1 in the real world and on the track or in the tight stuff, I feel the X1 would put it to shame. Note: I am comparing it to an X1, not an XB which should make my X1 look like a Lead Sled under those circumstances. |
|
