| Author | Message | ||
     Conv90 |
This is my first post, and after 11 years of research I finally bought the S1W that I always desired. I tried it, I made some km, I loved it and I bought it. The bike is at 1000 km away from me so I need to wait it the next week delivered to me. I have so many questions even because I have not it in my hands so I can'see directly. 1) it has the Early Showa 16.xx" shock. So it had the first recall replacing the Origina WP. I ask: why I have not the shorter 14.xx one or the SRP mod? This means that the bike had not the correct full recalls? 2)My knowledge on suspensions is good, but I always be curious about the fact that the "tubers" are with "reverse" rear suspension. So it extend on bumps (the shock gets longer as the bike gets lower) and shorter as the bike gets higher. But I read some PDF of the Service manual where to add preload, you need to SHORTER the shock to compress the outer spring.... So this make think that the shock (damper) is extending as the bike gets lower, BUT that the SPRING (around the shock) is COMPRESSING as the bike gets lower. I'm Wrong?? If I'm right on this, could you tell me how it is possible that the spring becomes shorter while the shock (damper) becomes longer? 3)When I tried the bike I noticed that it has 0 static sag and almost 0 sag with me on it. I'm small stature and very light (about 135 lbs) and I'd like some more sag (at least with me on it). For what I read on the service manuals on the net (I have found only the ones with WP shock or the late 14.xx ones and not the Early 16.xx Showa one) obviously I have to make the shock LONGER (in total length) releasing the compression of the spring. Is there some PDF of the total length of a Early showa to be in the specs of the preload (17"? 17,5" ?) Thanks | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Congrats on the bike! I have a 97 S1 and love it(although jealous you find an S1W). 3 different shocks, and a few recalls. I don't remember all the details, but from what I remember you can be up to date on the recalls and still have the 16" shock. I know after I got my bike I had someone here that works at a dealership check and it said I didn't have any pending recalls, but I have the 16" shock on my bike. It's fine. The rear suspension on these bikes aren't amazing, it's typically recommended to buy an aftermarket shock for it if you really want it to handle well, but that'll cost you at least $600+, and since I only commute on my bike, I just live with it. I've even been too afraid to mess with the preload and have the thing start leaking, so I've just left it as is. The suspension.... when you hit a bump and the rear wheel lifts, the rear shock does extend longer, but the actual spring still compresses. Picture... some kind of ball in front of you. Take your left hand and reach it over to the right side of the ball. Then take your right hand and put it on the left side of the ball. Your arms should be crossed and you've got a hand on each side of the ball. Now pull your elbows away from each other. The distance from elbow to elbow is getting longer, but you're still compressing the ball between your hands. So the spring compresses over bumps, but the internals of the shock would technically be rebounding. Then after the bump the spring will extend back to normal length, but the shock internals will compress. Hopefully that helps. Like I said, I've been too afraid to touch my shock, so I haven't messed with the rear suspension at all, but nobody else has responded in the past week with better information so I figured it'd be worth passing along what I *think* is correct information. Make sure you post some pictures of the bike when you get it! | ||
| Conv90 |
Thanks Upthemaiden. I really thank you. Good explanation. I made some research on the net and (even if it's not simple to find info that are not related to problem or recalls) I understand better the way it works. It's like Softail on HD's. the only difference is that Softails have 2 shocks under the frame and that the preload is at the front of the shocks and Buell has the preload regulation at the rear of the shaft body. I'll stay at the beginning for sure with the 16.xx Showa one , but I have to find a way to do the preload , because when I tried the bike it was with 0 sag with me on it. BTW, a locknut to loose and a big nut to turn the "can" is not a difficult task. What is not clear to me is IF reducing the preload (to allow some sag) and consequently making the shock eye to eye longer, it will lower the bike for sure or not. Basically it should lower the bike... The important for me is that it will be lowered with me on it. I've have found a place in the net where it seems that the neutral preload suggested for Early Showa is 17" to 17.4" Eye to eye. But I've not found some official spec. Obviously hitting a bump the spring compress and the internal shock extends using what we can call it "rebound" as a feature of the shock. But using dynamic property of the bike, it is using compression damping. Probably tomorrow I'll have the bike in my hands and I can't wait to drive it. I always wanted a S1W. I searched for years, but typically here in Europe the S1W are more priced than S1 and M2 and usually 2x the price of a X1 or a XB and it's very difficult to find one "unmolested". I'll post the pics tomorrow or saturday. It's a White body on White frame | ||
| Conv90 |
finally found the sheet of the Early Showa https://serviceinfo.harley-davidson.com/sip/servic e/document/1324?highlight=¶meters=highlight%3D &baseUrl=%2Fcontent%2Fdocument%2Fview%3Fid%3D1324% 23pagemode&toolbar=1&statusbar=0&messages=0&navpan es=0&view=FitH&search= | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Appreciate the link, maybe I'll take a look at mine and give it a try. Adjusting the preload definitely didn't seem difficult, but with the headache these shocks can be, I've always been paranoid to touch it and cause it to start leaking, leaving my only options as buying another used shock online for $150-200 and just hoping it doesn't also leak, or spending the $600 to order the aftermarket one(which I'd love but don't have $600 in my current spring budget right now haha). I found one of the newer 14" shocks and bought the new mount for it, again just hoping it worked better than mine, but after sitting on a shelf for a while perfectly clean, I noticed it eventually had a little oil on it as well, so I assume I bought myself a paperweight. As far as your general question, yes softening up the suspension, should technically shorten it, which would raise the bike, but with the suspension being softer would then drop lower than it currently is when you sat on it... but I think the height change in either situation would be negligible and not something you'd really notice either way. | ||
| Conv90 |
Upthemaiden, you said: " As far as your general question, yes softening up the suspension, should technically shorten it, which would raise the bike, but with the suspension being softer would then drop lower than it currently is when you sat on it... but I think the height change in either situation would be negligible and not something you'd really notice either way." No, softening the preload will make the whole shock (Eye to eye) LONGER because you move the "can " towards front of motorcycle exposing more threads , so making the rear part of the shaft longer, thus the bike should drop. (and in addition the suspension will be softer too because the preload has been reduced.). This Problem should be avoided with a twinmotorcycle.nl shock because the lenght is fixed and the preload has to be managed with the turning adjustment ring on the threaded body. https://www.twinmotorcycles.nl/webshop/artikel.asp ?guid=YXHFSC&aid=4323&cid=9865&s=&a=&aname=Buell_M 2X1S1S2S3_rear_shock_42cm=1654_inch | ||
| Conv90 |
Some pictures, just delivered to me.    (Message edited by Conv90 on September 17, 2022) | ||
| Akbuell |
Congrats to you sir! I am not ashamed to admit my jealousy. Beautiful machine. One caution, though. If you intend to ride much, might do to check through the recall list. I believe there was/is a caution about the six pin front brake rotor. I would get an appropriate late model or after market front rotor, and put the six pin one on the wall. Good for you on your new machine, and much happy riding to you. Dave | ||
| Conv90 |
Akbuell, I thank you for your advice on recalls. Yes I bought to use it. The bike has less than 15000 kM (less than 10k miles) and it's one of the very first produced S1W (based on VIN). I have all the original parts (except for bread box). The 6 pin front brake rotor recall has always scared me and I have no way to check if the recall has been done. I have to ask to the first dealer who imported because it was the Official Dealer/Importer, and the Owner of the Dealership retained this bike as a "private collection" for years. So, I'm positive he made all the recalls. | ||
| Akbuell |
You are aware. Excellent. A quick google search describes the recall and the 'fix'. It seems the original pins were replaced with ones held in place with a bolt and nut fastener; a close inspection of the photos you posted appears to show the new pins. Love the photos. Congrats again, Dave | ||
| Upthemaiden |
"No, softening the preload will make the whole shock (Eye to eye) LONGER because you move the "can " towards front of motorcycle exposing more threads" can't argue with that, I was just trying to picture it in my head as I was typing it out. Gorgeous bike! That thing looks spotless. I think looking at your bike just gave my bike some self esteem issues haha. | ||
| Conv90 |
Akbuell it seems the recall has been done   | ||
| Conv90 |
Upthemaiden, I have changed the preload without problems. Obviously there is always some uncertainties. If I go on the bike it seems there is no sag but if I ride it or I jump on it, then i have some sag and the length Eye to Eye is correct. I'll post in a separate message what I made and my considerations. The bike seems new. But it has some little problem more related to the fact that it has been UNUSED for years. I checked many things in these 3 days: Removed carb and it has a 42 pilot and 195 main Removed sprocket cover and found a 29T pulley with the nut holder very ruined (it seems it can turn around the nut) The Belt was too tight (almost no deflection) and the pulley bearing is leaking. The rear pulley is a 61 T but it seems it's a Sportster one [40246-91 cast ] and the pulley cover (that I'll remove) is almost in contact with the internal side of the swingarm and it's a bit ruined due to contact with the swingarm. I have to check better. Sometimes after 10 or 15 km it smokes a bit at the exhaust (maybe some valve seal is shot). I have to check many others things and I'll open specific posts here in the forum. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
Maybe I'll brave it and try to adjust mine in spring. My bike has enough leaks, what's the potential for one more... haha. Front rotor looks like it's good to go. Even pre-recall, I don't think there were any issues with the rotors ever falling apart, the bobbins would just come loose and it would rattle and make a really loud noise, so what you've got will definitely resolve that. Mine had the original rotor but it was warped. I replaced it with an EBC(I think that's the brand name), looks nicer, but it warped pretty quickly too, so what can you do. Unused bikes definitely collect some problems. Plenty of dried out seals and gaskets. The belts on these bikes are almost always tight. Every picture I've ever seen of a Buell always has a comment under it from someone that says "Belt is too tight" haha. You basically want it as loose as you can get it before it starts slipping under acceleration. Have you had a Buell before? I might be telling you stuff you already know. Even with a bike in good condition there's plenty of stuff that could use updated. The crankshaft oil seals between the bottom end and primary were updated, the primary belt tensioners should be updated, there's a spring plate in the clutch pack that can break apart and is recommended to be replaced with a couple normal plates, oil pump drive gear has an updated bronze version because the old ones wear fast. I sold my old Speed triple and bought this bike for half the money, thinking I was saving some cash, and pretty sure I've spent just as much replacing random parts. | ||
| Conv90 |
Upthemaiden, thanks for the advices. I'm aware of all. Only I was NOT ready for the bearing startin coming out the 5th gear shaft. In the pic you can se the needles and the lock plate that turned and stay UNDER the big nut. I'm accustomed to all the problem related to a 4 speed , but not for a 5 speed 91-later sportster engine. I have a 1990 XL 90 c.i. since 1991 and a nearly stock XLH 1975 since 2009.  | ||
| Upthemaiden |
This motor has all been new to me too. My dad has a 90's sportster, and the motor looks just like mine, but his seems to be a lot less work than mine haha. I'll have to take a look at mine and see what the shaft and bearing look like on mine. I can't remember for sure, but I think that bearing presses in from the outside, so you might just be able to press it back in. Wonder how they managed to accomplish that with the lock nut plate. I'm guessing someone tried to pull off that nut with an impact driver without removing the locking plate. Luckily that one's an easy fix if you can find another one cheap. I'm gonna guess the inside corners of that nut are toast too. | ||
| Conv90 |
I had two choices: 1) remove the whole transmission and press out (extract from inner side) the 5th gear (and check if scored mainshaft) and install the 2 new needle bearings on it, and press back (from inside) the 5th gear. or 2) tap it back from outer side with the mainshaft still in position. Considering the fact that the needle bearing was out only 3,5 mm and that the needles were out only less than 9/10 of the length (so still with adequate support), AND that removing transmission on a 5 speed engine has some risks, I decided to tap it back using a precise socket. I bought a 4 Eur 12030 oil seal cap and inserted it.   I'll monitor the situation leaving out the pulley cover to see if it pop out again. (Message edited by Conv90 on September 24, 2022) | ||
| Falloutnl |
"I sold my old Speed triple and bought this bike for half the money, thinking I was saving some cash" Lol, that's a good one. /edit: though Speed Triples are a pretty common, I still say there's a good chance S1's will start going up in value in the US. They certainly have in Europe. Also, jesus Conv90, that is a gorgeous S1. Like upthemaiden, I'm jealous. (Message edited by falloutnl on September 24, 2022) | ||
| Conv90 |
Some new pics:     In this pic I have the center of the rear pulley aligned with the pivot point of the swing arm and the center of the front pulley. It's still a bit loose. Probably I have set it too "ridiculous loose" and I can tight it a bit more.  | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I would've done the exact thing you did to press that bearing in. No way it was worth tearing the motor apart when you could just tap it back in from the outside. Good call on leaving the cover off for now, the engines look much better without them, just a shame they made the front pulleys out of rust... I keep telling myself I'm gonna clean mine up someday but never get around to it. You even got the Buell bike cover! that thing is as pretty as the bike haha. Does the belt skip at all? I tried lining all 3 of those up and setting the belt tension that way, but in the end I remember it skipping every so often when I'd leave a red light, so I just tightened it up ever so slightly till it stopped slipping and let it go, and it's been fine since. That idler pulley and fixed axle position on my old XB sure was nice haha. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
The common reason for the needle bearing coming out is because the drive belt was to tight. Have seen it happen before! It's a really good looking S1 you have there!  | ||
| Mike_lee |
score! beautiful bike. |
