| Author | Message | ||
     Thatguy421 |
Hello All, I'm considering buying a 1997 M2 Cyclone. Miles are 25k, price seems a little steep at $2400, but it appears to have some nice cosmetic mods that make it look more "Harley-Like". Based on photos available, I like the look of the machine. Intended use is short trips at sane speeds on surface streets with a passenger. FWIW I'm a somewhat-experienced biker (about 50k miles over 18 years) and a better-than-average mechanic. I sold a Suzuki SV1000S a couple of years ago because it was too slow, uncomfortable, lacked personality, and because I fried the clutch (my fault, not the bike's - I made sure the new owner knew). I'm guessing the M2 will also feel slow, but I think I'm too old to care. My questions are: Is this a reasonably comfortable bike for an old dude on short trips? How does it handle 2-up? What issues should I ask about and look for when I inspect the bike? Thanks. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If you got rid of the 'Zook because it was too slow, you will be disappointed with an M2. The M2 it a slightly breathed upon sportster motor. You can of course bring up the power with cams and porting but you may want to find a slightly newer Buell that has more performance from the factory. S3 or X1 have the same engine which is fuel injected, lighter flywheels, fun cams....etc. But hey, try it! The grunt off the line combined with the light chassis may make it feel faster than it actually is. It probably handles better than you realize too. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
I feel like most of them, even ones with over 20k miles, tend to stay in the $2500-3000 range. If you get lucky you'll find one for close to $2000, but I don't see many. That being said, the prices on these bikes don't seem to fluctuate that much, so if you keep looking around it's very possible you could find a bike with less miles for around the same price(bought mine with 11k for $2500). That being said, 25k really isn't all that many miles for one of these bikes. Things to look for... Everything is pretty well exposed, so it's not too hard to miss any problems if you look the bike over. Check the usual things, like fork seals, a lot of tanks have bubbling issues with the paint. Pay attention to the rear shock, they're not the best, so make sure it still feels like it's working well, and isn't leaking. The common things that do need updated with these bikes aren't typically things you can see on the outside... there's an updated oil pump gear($90 + gasket) that needs updated, there's a new primary chain tensioner, a spring plate in the clutch that should be replaced with normal plates. These are all things you won't be able to see, but if you can get a conversation going and ask him what kinds of thing's he's done to it, you can get an idea if he's taken care of some of those little things, or just ridden it and not been too worried about potential problems. Just for reference, these are the things that I found that needed done once I bought my 97 and got some time on the forum to research, and time in the garage to really look my bike over: -bad fork seal(rainy day when I test rode it, so I didn't notice it being wet) -warped brake rotor -isolators were all shot(rubber engine mounts) -turn signals weren't working -choke didn't work -bike had a 3k rpm sputter -front master cylinder didn't 'return' well, apparently you can't get rebuild kids for them) -sidestand switch was dying, left me stranded my second day riding to work -leaking clutch cable where it screws into the engine -leaking fitting on the oil tank So... between those things, and some of the other internal engine upgrade that I'm assuming haven't been done yet, I have, and still plan to spend a bit on this bike. Unfortunately I drove 4 hours from home to meet the guy, after only having gotten pictures of the bike, and like I said most of the issues I didn't catch because I was only able to take it for a short ride on a rainy day, so I was gentle on the brakes and didn't notice the warped disc, the bike was already wet and dirty so I didn't catch some of the oil leaks, was in a parking lot so I had no reason to try the turn signals... and honestly, I wasn't gonna drive 2 states away and not buy the bike. So give it a good look over, definitely spend as much time researching these bikes ahead of time so when you go, you know what you're looking for. In general, if the bike looks well kept, most of the general problems have probably been addressed, these bikes don't have many serious issues, but they are 20 years old and have had a handful of upgrades to them since, so definitely plan to spend at least a few hundred on the bike after you got it. If the bike has a for sale ad, copy the pictures and post them here. We'll look over it and give you as much information on the bike as we can see. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
"If you got rid of the 'Zook because it was too slow, you will be disappointed with an M2. The M2 it a slightly breathed upon sportster motor." That's a true statement. My first Buell was an xb9s, and I called the dealership and put a deposit down over the phone, and caught a ride with a friend to pick it up 4 hours away. I signed all the paperwork, pulled out of the parking lot, twisted the throttle on the wide open road, hit the 7k rpm redlight and just remember thinking "wait.... that's it?!". Granted that was the 984cc engine, and my 97 is a 1203cc, the bikes still had a claimed 91hp, and your SV had a claimed 120hp, so don't expect that extra 200cc to keep you entertained. It's a fun motor, but it's not a fast motor. It's all torque, and I spend 99% of my time between 2000-3000rpm. Definitely give it a test ride, find a good road to really open the throttle, but also spend some time with it closer to 2500 rpm so see how much torque the engine has in the most used part of the rev range. I've owned plenty of sportbikes with motors that would just stomp on this thing, but I'm also not in my 20's anymore, and don't catch myself flying down the highway anymore, so I'm very happy with the power this motor has, as long as you know what you're getting into. | ||
| Thatguy421 |
Thank you for the feedback! My primary reason for selling the SV1000S was that she wasn't comfortable for me. In particular, the clip-ons were too low. I'll give the m2 a thorough test ride. I don't think I care about power anymore, but time will tell. I do tend to abuse clutches (again, only my fault), so are there any headaches with rebuilding/replacing clutches on this motor? I rebuilt a clutch for a Honda once and it was painless, but I know zilch about Harleys/Buells. Any input is appreciated. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
No problems with the clutch at all. If you're going to be rough with it, I'd definitely make sure you pull it apart and inspect it before you put too many miles on it. Search this site for "grenade plate" for information about it. They put a spring plate in the clutch for better feel, but they're known to break apart and take the rest of the clutch with it. Very easy to fix though, just pull it out and replace it with 3 regular plates. You'll need a primary gasket, and a new seal for the shift shaft(unless you get lucky and can get the primary cover back on without damaging that one). I've always liked the SVs. I almost bought a naked SV650 back around 2003 when they switched to FI. I still think that's a great looking bike. The dealership just took too long to get one in, and didn't seem that interested when I'd come in to ask about them, so I got suckered into a Triumph Speed Four that happened to have a $1000 off. That turned out to be a wonderful bike though. Currently I'd love to have one of the first generation SV650S's for a commuter, I've always wanted one of them, but I worry that the clip-ons would get old for commuting, and you know how it is... too many bikes, too little money. My wife never takes me seriously when I tell her I need at least 5 bikes. Maybe someday. Anyway, this site is a little hard to navigate until you get the hang of it. Your easiest bet is just to go to google and type in "site  adweatherbikers.com grenade plate" or whatever other words you want to search for. | ||
| Mhlunsford |
I still have a 2000 M2 but now has a X1 motor. I have rode some 1K miles in a day. Somewhat comfortable. Lots of fun, but 4K RPM at 80mph is about it. I have taken it up to 120 and stopped there with the X1 motor. I had problems with the first motor. I would check if oil is coming out the rear onto the tire - bad seal - I can not remember which one. Ensure the all the gears always work. Mine had a hard time going to second some times. Mine ate the stator. Not sure if the 97 had the big front motor mount that connects to the front head, but the later ones were thin and broke which then break the exhaust studs and the front motor mount. If has the thin one, upgrade to the large Triangle ones save yourself a lot of work. I would check for intake seal leaks as well. Check the left and right controls - for some reason the left control with the turn signals likes to stop working. I would check inside the timing cover to see if the timing switch has melted - if so replace. If it still has the original exhaust - probably ok. But I would check for cracks. There is a newer exhaust front hanger. I normally due a compression check if possible - I think you should see 180 or better. Check if this number is correct The X1 engine I purchased sat for 12 years and the valve seals went bad - plugs would look nice and black. So I would run for a while and check the plugs see if they are burning well. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
>>"but 4K RPM at 80mph is about it" Not so on my X1 with the deafening pipe and race ECU. Mine pulls like a train in top gear til about 110 without much effort. Carbs work fine but fuel injection is magic. | ||
| Mhlunsford |
Needless to say at 80 can turn the throttle and go to 100 no problem, I just would not say there too long. Really need that 6th gear for that. The fuel injection is something I do want. Just not sure a X1 or XB.  | ||
| Dave_02_1200 |
If you want a comfortable fuel injected tube-frame Buell, the answer is S3T. Put a Corbin seat on a S3T and ride happy. I am 6'6" and it fits me perfectly. But, if you are open to a bike with a carb, look at an M2. The milder cams give it a strong, smooth mid-range and great all around real-world performance. The M2 also fits me and is comfortable on long rides. I have owned both an S3T and an M2 and if forced to choose between them I would have to flip a coin. Both are great, just a bit different. | ||
| Thatguy421 |
Thanks again for all the info. The M2 looked to be in good shape for a 20 year old bike, so I bought it. Took it for a long test ride first. I was very much impressed with the comfortable riding position. The M2 is miles ahead of my old SV1000S in that respect. As a bonus, this M2 has a nice Corbin seat the owner didn't mention in his ad. Neat! I don't doubt the SV was outright faster, but the M2 seems to accelerate just as well at the legal speeds I'll be riding at. The frustrating thing about the SV is it had the full-on uncomfortable sportbike crouch without the full-on sportbike acceleration. Not knocking SV's, it just wasn't the right bike for me. I think the M2 will be a better fit if it proves to be reasonably reliable. I'll look into the things on y'all's lists this weekend. Fun story: My girlfriend of about three months took one look at the M2, gave me a big old kiss on the lips, and asked when we could go riding. I suspect the lady may be a keeper! | ||
| Harleyelf |
What's your combined weight? The rear shock might need to be upgraded. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
"I don't doubt the SV was outright faster, but the M2 seems to accelerate just as well at the legal speeds I'll be riding at" I went from a Speed Triple to the S1. Speed triple was definitely faster and stronger, but the S1's engine is much more usable, and feels faster since there's no need to rev it as much to get to the power. I never got to put that engine to good use in the time that I owned it. "The frustrating thing about the SV is it had the full-on uncomfortable sportbike crouch without the full-on sportbike acceleration" My only real concern with the Sv650S I always liked. I'm not sure I ever want to go back to clip-ons, especially for a commuter. I don't miss dealing with those at redlights and stop & go traffic. Mine also came with an unexpected corbin seat. I used it for a while, but eventually settled on the stock seat. I think it's a bit more comfortable, and holds my butt in place better. "What's your combined weight? The rear shock might need to be upgraded." They're adjustable, but I've always been afraid to mess with mine as I've seen a few people on here say that messing with the preload was when theirs started leaking. Obviously if you're considering replacing it, there's not reason not to try to adjust it first and risk it. In my case, I'll just deal with it potentially not being perfect, for the sake of not risking replacement. | ||
| Thatguy421 |
"What's your combined weight...?" I'm about 160, I'm guessing she's 130ish so about 290 total. The guy I bought it from is a bigger guy and he said he adjusted the rear shock. It felt "right" to me on the test ride so I think I'll leave it alone for now and risk the leak. The left front fork is a tad weepy, so obviously that'll need to be fixed - nothing I can't deal with. Given the bike's age I might just wait until the fork leaks enough to hurt the handling and just re-do the whole suspension. Any safety issue with that? In younger and more foolish days I rode a Honda CM400E with a totally worn out front suspension, so I know what it feels like. BTW for anyone else considering an M2, I'm 5'9" and I find the seat height is very do-able, especially for anyone with sportbikes in his/her past. Also, I'd never ridden anything with a Harley motor before the M2. I knew they shake, but I found the level of vibration at low RPM's surprisingly high. It clears right up at cruising speeds though, so I don't think there's a problem with the bike or it's anything that'll seriously get on my nerves. Regarding the SV, I bought her with the intention of adding raised clipons and lowering the pegs but just never got around to it. Ultimately, repair issues (clutch, suspension and brake issues I never entirely solved, amateur electrical work by a previous owner, etc) made that option less attractive than just replacing her. (The new owner bought her for parts for his other SV.) I imagine risers and pegs are an option on a SV650S also. If mine had been the "non-S" model I'd probably would have fixed it. The SV motor is very good, just not sportbike caliber. My bike before the SV was an ungodly-fast '92 GSXR1100 that I wish I'd never sold. It looked, sounded and acted like a straight up race bike, so I probably expected too much of the SV. | ||
| Mhlunsford |
I am about 225 29inseam. I run the m2 low shock. It drops the seat maybe an inch which works well for me. I never lowered the front and it does not bother me. I have a m2l seat which would lower maybe another inch but too hard for more than a couple of hours. Will sell cheap if interested. | ||
| Upthemaiden |
It's a shame because your SV had that TL1000 motor in it, which is supposed to be a wonderful motor. If you say the motor isn't good, they must've put some effort into making it that way. As far as your forks... the left side weeping isn't AS bad as the right side weeping, where it'll get on your brakes. Does the M2 take Dot4 or Dot5? I know Dot4 will do a number on your paint if it's leaking down to your wheel. I don't think Dot5(my 97 S1 uses Dot5) will do anything to your paint, still don't want it getting on your tire though. One thing to try is finding something thin, like the negative from some 35mm film and run it up under your seal around the fork leg. It could just be some crap that's gotten under the seal and is letting oil seep. Otherwise, you'll have to use your judgement on how much it's leaking. I've ridden bikes with leaky seals, so I can't say not to, just keep an eye on the oil. If you really want to ride it and not deal with the leaking oil, grab one of those rubber accordion fork boots like old bikes used to have, or even one of those newer neoprene form leg covers, and wrap a zip tie around the top or bottom. Any oil that sneaks past the fork seal will get trapped in there and stay off of the rest of your bike. I'm 5'8 and agree, bike is a very good size. My XB9 was the perfect size for me, but I think the S1 is still a good fit. My next bike purchase will hopefully be a GSXR from the early 90s. I was hoping to find a 750, but I wouldn't turn down an 1100. I've had concerns about it feeling a little bulky/slow(I like puttering along at just over idle on the buell, which you can't do on in I4), so I'd be interesting in hearing your comparison of the two after you get some time on the M2. I've always thought those bikes were gorgeous, and hoped to pick one up as a project next year after the tax return comes. Been watching some of those on ebay just out of curiosity... plenty of those bikes are listed for $5000-8000! Talk about resale value... that's not something we're used to with our Buells haha. My current 20yo Buell, my hopeful old gsxr, and someday xs650 is definitely making my realize I've passed beyond the young sportbike age and ventured into the old/classic bike "I always wanted one of these when I was younger" stage. (Message edited by upthemaiden on June 23, 2017) | ||
| Thatguy421 |
Upthemaiden: IIRC the SV had smaller valves, milder cams and different throttle bodies vs. the TL to flatten the torque curve at the expense of top end power. Mine seemed to pull about as hard at nearly any RPM so I guess they succeeded but I've never ridden a TL so can't say what they're like. I personally didn't care for the flat torque curve, but it was very practical on commutes. There's nothing inherently wrong with the SV1000S design, except maybe the riding position and thats a matter of taste and youth. :-) Thanks for the great tip about running something skinny under the fork seal on the M2 to clean it out. I've been wrenching on bikes for 18 years and never thought of that. I'll see if it works out. No idea yet on DOT 4 vs. 5 so I'll just assume it'll eat my paint and not let it get on there. Based on only 30 minutes of experience on the M2, my old Gixxer 11 was a completely different beast. Relatively long wheelbase, far more speed and power, radical sportbike crouch, and just generally optimized for race speeds at the expense of comfort and handling at freeway speeds. The suspension only really "felt right" above 100mph, and that's just faster than I want to go anymore. As long as everything was adjusted mine would chug along just off idle without misbehaving, but like most I4's the real power was near redline. It's heavy and wide for a sportbike and certainly felt bulky to me. Routine maintenance was also no picnic. I was happy to learn the M2 has hydraulic lifters. Sweet! What I miss most about the Gixxer is the looks. Mine had a pristine fancy paint and decal job from the factory and a well-executed aftermarket single exhaust. Also, I could make "these go to eleven" jokes. Mhlunsford: Thank you very much for the offer of the low seat, but I'm okay with the seat height and the Corbin at least for now. My favorite bike I ever owned was a KLR650 that I had to slide my rear off of to even get a toe down, so I'm very used to tall bikes. Sadly, that one was totalled when an SUV turned left in front of me. Fortunately I was only in the hospital for a couple days but boy did that hurt! Broken bones and friction burns THROUGH my leather, but I think my helmet might have saved my life and it surely saved my face. The face shield was the first thing to hit the pavement after I did a "superman" over the young lady's hood. Eek! | ||
| Thatguy421 |
Also for people considering a tuber Buell, I've read some reviews that talk about a balky shifter that needs a firm foot to function properly. Maybe my particular M2 shifts better than average, but the shifter seems no different than anything else I've ridden. I only flubbed one shift (first-to-second) after 1.5 years out of the saddle. Hopefully just me. Zero issues finding neutral, running or not. Just FYI and I'll update if problems arise. | ||
| Cyclone8u |
Congrats and welcome to the sickness. I've had my M2 since new in 99 and even though the Uly is my primary ride, the M2 will need to be pried from my cold dead hands...just awesome all around bikes. I did a lot of 2-up on my he M2 no problem. Recall shock helped a lot. Longer rides and trips were cramped, but for runs up to the mountains or day trips it was fine. And please post a pic! | ||
| Williamscottrobertson |
My S3 is a bitch to find neutral when hot. I've adjusted the primary 2k miles ago when I updated to the new shoe. Just my opinion, every tuber needs the updated primary shoe and "bronze" oil pump gear. Either will take her out if they fail. I have an RD400 two stroke and it's a blast in the power band and feels like a toy after being on my buells or my tuned 85' GPz750 turbo  I love the turbo. It's lighter 750 with 1100 power. It made 184hp on the Dyno. Kawis unitrack suspension is good and forks are high quality on that model, however I have emulators and ebc brakes ect. | ||
| Cupcake_mike |
I'd love to see that dyno sheet | ||
| Williamscottrobertson |
I had to get home from work and remember to upload it. Here ya go  | ||
| Upthemaiden |
The film was a trick someone mentioned when I used to have a supermoto and was always getting dirt under the seals. They make actual tools that do the same, called a "sealmate" or something goofy like that. The film is easy to come by if you have an old box of photos somewhere though. Buells are definitely a joy when it comes to maintenance after you get used to other bikes. The lack of valve adjustments and a chain to maintain is super nice, not to mention only having 1 carb. I'm not looking forward to having 4 carbs to deal with someday. Maybe I'll get lucky and find a bike that just happens to be running pretty well, but how often does that happen?? My old speed triple felt pretty bulky, it's amazing Buell could make bikes with a 1200cc engine that feel smaller than most 600-750s. The S1 actually feels big compared to the XB. My XB shifted perfectly. My S1 not as much, but it's still easy to lift with. When I got it, it felt really bad and I'd pretty regularly miss the shift from 2nd to 3rd gear, but after some new oil and a few adjustments it feels a lot better. |
