| Author | Message | ||
     Airborne |
Dave, One possibilty is that the $0.50 circlip that holds the shifter detent plate onto the shaft has come lose and the detent plate has finally moved around enough to cuase your problem. Your symptoms that you have described sound just like the same problem I had. If you don't do your own work make sure the mechanic finds all the crunched parts inside the gearbox and primary case before they give it back to you. When mine was fixed I got it home only to find out that the missing circlip had found its way to the stator and managed to chew it up and the bike went back to the shop for another 3 months. There are other possible reasons though, mine is just one of them. | ||
| Blake |
David: From your description it kinda sounds like you might be downshifting without using the clutch? That would be real bad. | ||
| Jtskir222 |
Deleted. Double posted from "Drivetrain - Primary Drive" page. | ||
| Mark_In_Ireland |
My belt has sqeaked on and off since I bought the bike....please don't tell me something else is about to break...AAAARRRGGGHHHHHHHHH (That will be the straw that broke this camels back). Still bikeless, the dealer just phoned to say bike is all together but he hadn't replaced the isolator bolts disturbed when the new cylinder head was fitted. These bolts are use once only....he's getting some shipped down from NI tomorrow...... | ||
| Leeaw |
Mark, I would have it checked while it is in. I tried some belt lube because mine was squealing, although not since I bought the bike. First the pulley went bad, and now three weeks later, the shaft bearings. I am still trying to find out how when the front pulley was changed 3 weeks earlier, they were rine, but after riding maybe 100 miles, they went bad. | ||
| Blake |
Belt Lube?! You mean that sticky stuff used to quite old fashioned V-style fan belts? Not good! | ||
| Leeaw |
Nah. This stuff is more like a toothpaste-like lube that the mechanics use. I tend not to believe in it, because it never squeaked before the problems started. You use it to just lube the side of the belt. | ||
| Roc |
So if the front of my pulley squeaked while pushing the bike, then I had a false neutral in forth, then 30 miles later I have no power transfer from engine to tire I could have a bad counter shaft bearing? As the transmission is constant mesh would this prevent shifting? | ||
| Leeaw |
Roc, Not sure, but my bike was shifting perfectly even though the bearings were bad. My front pulley was making a loud howling when it went bad, but I heard a minor squeaking for what turned out to be the bearings. | ||
| Aaron |
If your gearbox ever develops a problem where you shift into, oh, I don't know, say 3rd, and it feels like you've still got the clutch in for a moment after you've let it out, you might find something like this:   These 2 dogs have to mesh when you shift to 3rd. The fork doesn't move them all the way together it relies on the back cut to do that. Of course, with that much wear on the corner of the dogs, it just pushes apart instead of pulling together. This gearbox has about 32K miles on it. All is well now. Servicing a Buell gearbox sure is easy compared to most bikes. AW | ||
| Tripper |
Boy, that Suzi Girl sure is hard on gearboxes. | ||
| Jmartz |
AAron: My trans suffers exactly from what you are describing. I had been thinking it was an issue with the 3 balled rise and fall mechanism, but hey, a Baker 6 speed in on the planning board now. jose | ||
| Reepicheep |
Arghh. After a near record of 500 trouble free miles... I once again have scary noises coming from inside my 2000 M2 cyclone. It started with what sounded like a squeaking coming from behind the sprocket cover / sprocket, primarily at idle. After about 15 miles (heading home), it got worse, and I *think* I felt occasional dragging on the rear wheel. During the last mile, it got hard to downshift into first at a standstill, I had to get rolling and upshift first, then things seem to loosen up till the next stop. Got it home and put it up on the stand, and rotated the back wheel in neutral. Squeeeek.... (little bit of grind....) squeeeek... smooth... squeeek... repeat... Pulled the clutch cover and looked at the primary fluid... at exactly the right level and the normal slight grey. Pulled the primary chain inspection cover and checked chain tension... measured fine. Pulled sprocket cover and looked at front sprocket... suprisingly rusty and ugly looking, but no obvious problems with teeth on sprocket or belt. So. Any suggestions? Where do I look next? So much for taking the bike on the family vacation this year... it's looking a little grim. Trying vainly to keep a positive attitude... Bill | ||
| Sportyeric |
Aaron, your shifting may improve if you get rid of the shifter slop with something like this.  All it takes is a drill press with a slide table, ten bucks of scrap T6061, and about ten dozen Kootenay Mountain Ales. Apologies to Mr. Bsnke. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Obsolete bike, obsolete computer. Don't have the "browser" to upload, whatever the hell that means! I'll have to re-group. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Sigh. The denial is fading away. The cruncy occasional crunchy squeaky noises when I rotate the rear wheel on the stand seem to be coming from inside the transmission... so I don't know how it could be anything but serious. My suspicion is the bearings on the (mainshaft?) that attaches to the sprocket. I believe this is what LeeAW had done above, and it sounds like this is not uncommon. The only difference was my trouble downshifting at a stop (I had to get rolling and upshift first, then downshift). OK experts, on a scale of 1 through 10, how hard would this be to do myself with normal hand tools? If an oil change is a 1, a leaky rocker box gasket replacement is a 3, and a sheared header stud is a 5, what whould this be? I think I caught it REALLY early... It looks a little scary... that front sprocket is all the way on the right side, and the primary cover is on the left, and I am imagining all sorts of little gears and things between that would take forever to get out and put back... but I could be wrong. I guess the first step towards diagnosis is to remove the belt and make sure the front sprocket makes these noises when turning without a belt. I'm sure it will. Then I guess I have no choice but to open up the crankcase. Anybody have a source for those higher quality mainshaft bearings? Are they an easy install if it turns out the problem is elsewhere in the tranny? If so, I will order them before I go in there. Or should I just take the thing to a shop and leave this one to the pros? HELP! Bill | ||
| Davet |
If that bike's so obsolete, how come we're always looking at the back of it in the twisties? | ||
| Leeaw |
Reepicheep, I caught my problem very early on too, and it ended up costing $187 in parts alone, and half of that was the main shaft. Darn problem happened in under 200 miles. I was told it can cause problems really quickly. I was luckly that it did not mess up any gears or shifter forks. From what I understand, taking out the transmission is not that hard, but I ain't no mechanic. These kind of problems are the reason I need to move somewhere with year-round riding. Good luck. | ||
| Aaron |
Get the shop manual. It's one of the *really* cool features of these bikes that the gearbox is so easy to service. It's easier than a header stud replacement in my book, but slightly trickier than a rocker box gasket. Pretty damn easy really. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks Aaron... thats good news. Those TLS1000R's are starting to look awfull good... I needed a little good Buell news. Does service manual == shop manual? Or is there another step up? Anybody know the part numbers and sources for those upgraded aftermarket mainshaft bearings? It is probably worth getting those in before I even start the job (along with the gasket), then replace the other parts as I see damage. Thanks, Bill | ||
| Aaron |
Bill: Yes, I use service manual & shop manual interchangeably. There's only one. I don't know, I'd sure pull it down before I bought too many parts. You don't really know yet what's going on. Getting it out is trivial. Pull the front sprocket and clutch basket, the latter of which has a left hand thread. Pull the shifter pawl, remove the bolts, and voila, there it is. You don't even have to remove the belt pulley. The mainshaft is supported on the left with a big roller bearing in the trap door, and on the right it just sticks into the 5th gear needle bearings if memory serves, which can be left in the cases when you pull the gearbox. Once I had one of the little shift fork guide pins climb out of the groove in the drum and bind everything up. But that doesn't really sound like your problem. Until recently, I've never even heard of those bearings going bad. Needle bearings like the right side are generally a forever deal, as long as they have lubricant and don't get a bunch of trash in them. But even that roller bearing should outlast the bike. If it's bad, you can probably read a number on it and just call Boss Bearings with the number and get a good bearing in a couple days. You need the shop manual, it has nice exploded pics of the gearbox so you can see exactly where each spacer and snap ring goes. Get some lock ring pliers, Sears sells a good set for under $10. The manual also shows how to do the pawl adjustment, which you have to do on reassembly. It's easy. Unfortunately, I think we're losing this easy serviceability of the gearbox on the new model. I understand cost reduction and all that, but doggone it, I'd happily pay a couple hundred more for a bike with this feature. Good luck, AW | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks Aaron. Sounds like a very doable job. I have the manual and can be patient and methodical for this sort of thing. The sick part is... I am actually kinda looking forward to tearing into the tranny, God help me. The bike downtime is the only part that hurts. Is this a web community, a community of enablers, or a recovery group? No... strike that... the TL1000 site would be the recovery group... "Hi. My name is Bill, and I traded my Cyclone on a TL1000r. I have not taken apart my bike for 3 days now." This would definately be the community of enablers... "just take apart the tranny and order the bearings direct from BOSS"  Whatever the problem is, it will have to wait a couple of weeks until after the family vacation. A real shame, I wanted to trailer along the cyclone and explore SC. Expect to hear from me then with pictures from the tranny for further advice. Thanks tons... I would NOT own this bike without this community. Bill | ||
| Leeaw |
Aaron, Not that it matters at this point, but would consider the reasoning for my bearings going bad would be due to lack of lubrication from use of Mobil1. Could it be too thick and have different properties than HD dyno oil to the point where certain points were not getting lubricated? I just would like to know why the bearing failures on something that should last forever. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Leeaw... I'm using the straight HD fluid in the tranny, and it sounds like I have an identical failure to yours. I also know for a fact it was kept topped off and fresh for the last 2500 miles, and I have also been carefull about belt tension. Mobil 1 15-50 is in the engine, but it would be a stretch to claim that has an effect... I suspect something else is up. We can keep digging once I get mine apart and look at the actual failing parts. I will take a few of Court's milk crate moments and see if anything is obvious. I just picked up a sweet little digital camera (Nikon Coolpix 950) on ebay, so from now on the graphic content of my posts will go WAY up Bill | ||
| Aaron |
Lee: I'm totally unqualified to answer that question, sorry. Blake? | ||
| Leeaw |
Reep, My brother has the same camera. Awesome pictures. I use my dad's Kodak DC4800 which is quite nice too. I don't take enough pic's of the little ones. Please give me more feedback of yours is the same problem as mine, cause I would like to get back to my dealer with the Mobil1 theory. Aaron, You know more about cars than I know about life, so your input is valuable. | ||
| Anon_R |
Aaron, Lee, Bill, Fred, Tom, Dick, Harry, Sue? Bill said he is very carefull about the belt tension. I'd ask that you relay in exact detail how you adjust the belt and to what tension. Most common, and damn near only, cause of Buell or XL transmission break down is related to belt tension. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Reepicheep. I think the toughest part of the job is the clutch basket/sprocket removal. The manual calls for a special tool to stop them from rotating. It's just a piece of 1/4"aluminum plate that you jam between the teeth and the chain. Don't let it spook you. An impact wrench would be good for cracking the nuts. You can rent one, air or electric. Setting up the pawl when you're finished, the book calls for a pin of a certain diameter. I just used a drill bit of the closest common size. (1/8?). Works fine. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Oh. The sprocket nut should be replaced whenever removed, I've been told. Keeps the threads nice and sharp. Oh. And Dave:lay off! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Good question Anon-R, and I would like to know if what I am doing is wrong... Since I got the bike (with about 2500 miles on it), I have made sure there is at least 2 inches of play while the bike is unloaded. It has always been fine, I never moved anything, and got checked at least weekly, and as I recall there is more then 2 inches... I was a lot more worried about it being too tight then too loose, so I have not adjusted it... I am pretty easy on the bike, so I am not going to snap any belts... I don't know what the previous owner did for the first 2500 miles though... Don't know if this would be a factor... Because of of a (tragic) comedy of errors at Eastgate Buell here in Cincinnati, I rode the bike for around 1000 miles with a quickly failing shock. In hindsight, it looks like the shock was not only loosing damping (which I knew about and expected) but was also loosing preload... once it got replaced the pegs took much more lean to scrape, and the muffler stopped hitting the 4" lip I had to ease over to get into my garage. My assumption was that because the pivot for the swingarm is between the front and back sprockets, that any excessive loading or unloading would make the belt looser, not tighter. I poked around while the bike was on the lift again last night. It spins pretty smooth for about 3 or 4 revolutions of the front sprocket, then feels a little rough for a quarter rotation or so, then clears up again. Does not seem to happen at the same position. You can hear _something_ that sounds like it is coming from immediately behind the front sprocket inside the tranny. Another weird thing... now that I think back to when it started acting funny on my drive home. I think I recall that after I heard the "squeak", I pulled over and that it continued to squeak at idle while the bike was stationary with the clutch in. But that makes no sense... So to recap what I remember for another possible diagnosis before I tear apart the tranny... 1) Riding home, hot day, not particularly abusing the bike, 50 mph average speeds, 20 miles or so out. 2) Start to hear what sounds like a squeak from up front and down low. 3) Pull over. I _think_ it squeaked at particular (slow idle) rpm ranges while stationary with clutch in... but I don't trust my memory here. I may have been rolling or rocking the bike... I wish I remembered. 4) Continued home another 10 miles or so. Squeak stayed. I think I felt hints of dragging while coasting from time to time. 5) About 1 mile from home, downshifting when stopped became difficult. Had to get rolling, upshift, then down shift... once I upshifted, downshifting was normal. Definate dragging while coasting with the clutch in on at least one occasion. 6) Got home, did a cursory check of tranny fluid (fine) and belt tension (at least 2 inches of play) and primary chain tension (fine). 7) Rear wheel up and rotate by hand in neutral, rotates easily, but with spots of light resistance and some crunchy squeaky noises that come and go about every 4-10 rotations of the front sprocket. 8) The cool bike on the lift shifts fine between first, neutral, and second. Crunching and squeaking gets better as bike cools. 9) I can think of at least three occasions since I got the bike when I could have sworn the back brake was dragging slightly when I came to a stop... the very same dragging I felt during this failure. Sorry for the long diatribe... I would like to have a hypothesis before I go tearing stuff apart... Right now I am leaning towards the mainshaft bearing because it sounds like a suffering bearing, and it sounds like it is coming from directly behind the engine sprocket. I think that explains everything BUT the squeaking at idle(which I am not even sure it did). I don't know if it would explain the difficult downshifting. With the bike up and cool, it rotates easily enough that had I not had the hard shifting and loud squeaking before, I would probably not think there is anything wrong and just hop on it and ride it away. Any (more) help from more experienced people would be appreciated. Goodness... thats a long post... sorry for thinking out loud everybody... I guess my "Milk Crate Moments" are taken in front of a terminal... Bill |
