| Author | Message | ||
     Electraglider_1997 |
http://thekneeslider.com/erik-buell-motorcycles-wi nding-down/ | ||
| Sagehawk |
Two American marquee going down in 1 month. Really sux. | ||
| Falloutnl |
Ah f*ck  Though it doesn't really surprise me with the way the supersport market is right now; extremely niche and highly competitive. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Just my opinion but Buell should have concentrated their efforts on a ULY replacement and not crotch rockets. Young folks without adequate funds buy crotch rockets and they buy what they can afford which isn't EBR bikes. Older, more well heeled riders buy adventure/touring bikes and of course EBR had none. Bad business decision to focus on board seated crotch and hooligan bikes. I think Erik has finally learned that if you do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result that you do indeed get the same result, closure, bankruptcy. Heck, most of us only wanted EBR to produce a ULY replacement and naturally they did not. Demographically, Buell was not paying attention whatsoever, that all of us Buellers are getting older and want nothing to do with an uncomfortable crotch rocket with a board for a seat. Only more iterations of that crotch rocket racing bike. And who sells a bike with a clutch lever that is so hard to pull??? Build it and they will come, oh, not really. Yeah, I'm a little pissed off. | ||
| Dr_greg |
Hear, hear. EG expressed my opinion exactly. Rats. --Doc | ||
| Reepicheep |
What if the uly replacement was was going to come later, cost more, and do less than the KTM already in the segment? That's my guess. KTM, a hard competitor with a lot more resources, just beat them, so they retreated. (And getting beat by KTM is not something to be ashamed of... just being on the same playing field with them is pretty amazing). Motus is doing exactly the "just build the AX" thing, and while still surviving, ins't exactly setting the motorcycle market on fire. | ||
| Mark_weiss |
Actually, the young crowd is not buying so many sport bikes. The 600cc market is crashing and the 750 market is already pretty much gone. 1000cc sports are too expensive to purchase and insure. Of the new riders who are not buying cruisers, the 500cc to 750cc twin/triple Standard market is growing rapidly. Lower cost, both to purchase and insure. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I think EBR's plan for the AX shifted over time. When EBR was first launched (prior to the release of the 1190RX), Erik was quoted in a trade industry magazine saying they'd have 3 variants on the 1190 platform: a sport bike, a naked bike, and an adventure bike. A couple of years later, an EBR engineer was quoted in a Cycle World article saying the AX would not be an 1190 variant, but an all-new design that would be a few years down the road. I'm thinking EBR initially planned the AX to be an 1190-based Ulysses. That could have been put into production pretty quickly; all they really needed was taller suspension, a new rear subframe/seat assembly, and maybe a small fairing. They could have used off-the-shelf luggage just like the Uly did. After the big infusion of Hero money in ~2013, my guess is EBR scrapped that plan and decided to design a clean sheet, world-beater serious ADV bike that could compete with KTM, BMW, etc. as a true ADV bike. It would have probably featured a completely new engine, non-fuel-in-frame, larger front wheel, etc. When Hero jerked the rug out, all that effort was lost. If this is truly the end for EBR, I hope we'll at least get to see what went on behind the scenes at some point. I'd love to at least see drawings of some of these never-built bikes. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
I think the fix was in! No journalist gave EBR any ink and the tiny passing comments were nit picky complaints but every YouTube review was glowing from respected riders. He should have rolled out a Ulysses style bike and crushed the completion. He had the power, weight and the suspension all set. Very sad! | ||
| Portero72 |
Well, shit. That just tasted like a huge dollop of urine in my corn flakes.... | ||
| Phelan |
A lot of people say EBR should have made smaller bikes. The only reason they didn't have a smaller bike is because they couldn't afford the R&D to make it. The only reason the 1190s came to life is because 90% of the R&D was done with Buell for the Baracuda. It's not that they wanted to start with an expensive sport bike with low dividends. Erik and the others aren't stupid. It was either make the 1190 or make nothing at all, because that's all they could afford to build. They were in playoff mode as soon as they opened the doors at EBR in 2010. They hoped the sales would net them enough to eventually grow to make more popular bikes to fund Erik's racing desires, but that just didn't happen. He knew the risks and found it worthwhile to try anyway rather than sit back and build nothing. Just because EBR went under does not mean they were a failure. Some great bikes came out of it, that happened to match Erik's vision and desire to build an American Superbike. I'm glad that he was successful to that extent of seeing his long owned vision come to fruition. | ||
| Tempest766 |
Cannot say I'm the least bit surprised. My Uly was fun but I think this summer I'm going to invest in an FJR1300 so that I can enjoy longer rides a bit more. I may sell the Uly come spring. | ||
| Save_ferris |
Well said Phelan! Love my Uly and my SX. Keeping both. Likely to buy another of each for spares. (Message edited by Save_ferris on January 31, 2017) | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I'm chime in on this! My first visit to the Buell Motorcycle Company was in 2003 and when I toured the factory they asked me if I wanted to test ride a new Buell Lighting or a Firebolt in which I turned down the offer because they were not comfortable motorcycles to ride. I had a 98 M2 Cyclone at the time and it was becoming uncomfortable for me riding. But when they came out with the Ulysses in 2006, that bike just got my attention for how comfortable it was and how well it handled so I ended up buying one which I still ride today. I use to go every year to homecoming and ALWAYS the majority of bikes there were Ulysses simply because people could jump on one and ride halfway across the country without any discomfort or problems! If everyone who rides motorcycles especially at my age, you want something very comfortable to ride so you can enjoy being on a motorcycle and that's what the Ulysses was! Once Harley Davidson closed down Buell, I was really rooting for Erik to succeed and make a new water cooled version of a Ulysses for us older riders that still had the passion for riding a motorcycle , but to this day there still hasn't been a Buell American made motorcycles that can compete with my Ulysses! I'm 63 now and my riding days are coming to an end but I still enjoy jumping on my Uly for a ride and I will now always wonder what if he had built the much talked about AX? One can only imagine! I'm not even bothering to go to the Chicago IMS this year because there's nothing there made for my likings! | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Cyclonedon, Try a Zero electric bike. Best demo ride I've done in years. | ||
| Njloco |
Only 63, and your riding is coming to an end ? I guess I should consider myself lucky then! With the exception of a recent accident and slow recovery ( to be expected at 68 ) I can't wait to get back on my bike, and was considering buying a Black Lightning. | ||
| Teeps |
The Ulysses is a hard bike to quit. I've been looking for a replacement since H/D put the Buell brand down. 10 years after purchase, I'm still riding the Ulysses; still looking for the next bike, but will probably ride the Buell, until one of us can't. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I retired this year at the age of 60 and was all set to buy a new EBR in a couple of months. I was so pissed after the press release I spent a night trying to find something else I was interested in buying. There are a few bikes that interest me, but nothing like the Ulysses did. I expect I'll still wind up buying an 1190SX, but even with that I feel like I'm giving up several key features I really like about the Uly. I'd love to know what a 2018 Buell ADV bike would have looked like if Harley'd never killed Buell. | ||
| Dr_greg |
I'd love to know what a 2018 Buell ADV bike would have looked like if Harley'd never killed Buell. I've lost count of the number of times I've thought that exact phrase. Alas, the need to use my retirement years to "see the USA in my ???" led me to change marques. But I still wonder... --Doc | ||
| Hughlysses |
I really would like to know what the projected life of the XB series was. If things had stayed on track, they'd have released the Barracuda (a proper 1125 bike) in 2010, and the middle weight triple platform (mentioned by Steve Anderson in the Cycle World article) a year or two later. Would the triples have replaced the XB, or were improvements in the works that would have kept the XB going another ~10 years? I hope I live long enough to see some of this info leaked. | ||
| Falloutnl |
One thing I always wonder is how Buell, Erik or the company, felt about the original air cooled engine they used. I mean, I absolutely love the character that engine gives their bikes. To me, that engine is a very important part of what makes a Buell so special. But it goes without saying that it's not competitive when pitted against liquid cooled designs from other manufacturers. On the track, that is. On the road it doesn't matter. On the road, I would say there is nothing better than an air cooled Buell. All the fun in the world at reasonably, sort of legal speeds. Problem is, they probably couldn't have kept doing it anyway considering emission restrictions and all that. I do appreciate how the 1125r and cr look. Beautiful designs. But here in Europe you can already see the prices on the 1125 bikes coming down much faster than prices on bikes of the XB platform. Those are going back up in some cases. To me that confirms that much of what people love about Buell is that air cooled engine. So, had they been able to continue their work, where would that leave a company that is in the business of, well, pushing technology forward. Could they have kept the air cooled dream alive? Would they have somehow been able to endow a liquid cooled motor with as much character as the air cooled ones? What do you guys think about this? | ||
| Johndd |
Isn't the Evolution engine air cooled? I think Harley still uses them on Sporters. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'd have loved to see what they could have done with a "clean sheet" air cooled engine design. Keep the character and low maintenance, but get rid of that pressed together crank, make the engine case/transmission case more compact, and lighten the whole thing. | ||
| Ourdee |
I want to see an 1190 two smoke. | ||
| Motorfish |
A trap door for servicing the transmission, instead of splitting the cases, would be nice too. | ||
| Dr_greg |
A trap door for servicing the transmission, instead of splitting the cases, would be nice too. Pardon my ignorance, but how often does one have to service a transmission? Clutch, now, that's different. Perhaps you mean changing ratios for a given track... Just wondering. --Doc | ||
| Ourdee |
If I didn't have to split the case on my XB, I would have ground the gears to work better. Other than that I don't need a trap door. | ||
| Motorfish |
Yeah Dr. Greg, that's a good point. I've never had any trans problems or heard of many. A few 5th gear bearing failures maybe. I guess I was just thinking, what if, and threw it out there. | ||
| Arry |
That's what I've been concerned about, 5th gear bearing. Because it's part of the final drive, and there are so many rear wheel bearing and drive belt problems... I've heard of some 5th gear bearing problems, but don't know if it's something to worry about. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Harley always warned of over tightening the belt just for that reason and I always wondered why Buell had a fix belt position but I guess as long as every belt manufacture and Buell tolerances are in check, it shouldn't be a problem... Burning up 5th gear and wheel bearings |
