| Author | Message | ||
     Caboose |
I'm new to Buell and DDFI in general. I'd like to replace the stock muffler with a Vance&Hines slip-on but I'm not sure if this is going to screw up my 2001 X1's performance. Will the ECM still function properly, or will the fuel / air mixture get messed-up because of the flow increase on the exhaust side of things. For now, I'm just looking for more sound from the bike. Next year I plan to install the full Buell racing kit. | ||
| Ccryder |
Caboose: Minimum with any after market slip on is the Race ECM. The stock ECM does not have enough internal self-adjustment to compensate. You run the risk of running VERY lean. Neil S. | ||
| Mikej |
WileyCo: I'm looking for suggestions. As noted above earlier the flat gasket that goes between the collector flange and the front of the muffler inlet blew out. I replaced it and in less than 2-weeks it blew out again. So, I'm looking for opinions of fixes. Right now I'm thinking of welding up a sleeve-flange that will fit tight into the pipe and overlap the gap, then welding on a flat gasket-plate. (Is that clear?) For the interim I'm thinking of doing one of three things: 1. Just running the bike for the next 6,000 miles or so and let it blow. 2. Soup-canning it. In other words just hoseclamping a wrap around the muffler and stepping/necking that down to the collector diameter and hoseclamping it there as well. Mainly to reduce the exhaust gasses from cooking the primary gasket above it, and coloring the engine case and primary case materials with hot exhaust. 3. Just putting the stock Buell exhaust back on the bike for my trip. I'm fairly certain I have the WileyCo installed correctly, so I can only assume the flange-ears have bent slightly thereby reducing the clamp effect between the flange and the muffler face and allowing the exhaust gasket to blowout. 4. I guess I have a 4th option to consider if anyone knows of any high-temp gasket sealer that will hold up under exhaust pressure and heat if I just paste/paint the blown gasket and clamp it back down. I thought of trying to JB-Weld, but then wasn't sure how it would hold up, and wasn't sure how easy it would be to remove it from the muffler face. Maybe I'll go buy a tube and paint a puddle over the flange gap to see if it will work like a caulking compound. I don't want to stick the original exhaust back on, but I might. Especially since someone mentioned they got rid of the midrange torque dip using the stock exhaust. This is long enough, any suggestions? I got this weekend to fix it because next weekend I hit the road. Here's the link back to the pics I posted last October when I first installed it to help show the problem gasket situation. MikeJ. | ||
| Richieg150 |
I bought a Vance and Hines slip on for my 2000 M2,the front mout on the pipe broke before i had 1000 miles on it!I called Vance and Hines at 562-921-7451,they said they will replace the pipe 1 time and 1 time only!I then asked this guy if they back their pipes,he said only 1 time,so......if this mount breaks i guess im just ##cked!So the moral of the story is,DONT BUT VANCE AND HINES!My thought is if the pipe breaks on the mount,they should replace the pipe until they fix the problem!I used to think highly of Vance and Hines products,but as far as im concerned,their customer service sucks and they wont stand behind their product!I forgot to mention i was at a dearler having my bike dynoed when they noticed the mount broke!They welded the mount back for me,for 30.00.I also told the guy at Vance and Hines about that,stating I wanted to be paid back,he said NO WAY !So.........spread the word stay away from Vance and Hines! | ||
| Fastback69 |
MikeJ, Find a shop that sells sheets of different metals. Buy a small square of .020" soft copper or aluminum and cut another gasket from that. You might also build a new flange that uses a SS or copper O-ring instead of a flat gasket. Just a thought. | ||
| Jerome |
Al : keep in touch about the solution for the Trapp. My Trapp develops a serious crack along the welding of the front tube on the front plate. I've put 4 weld points to reinforce it a little bit and I also consider welding some 90° plates. By the way, experiences on this board about a White Brothers internal disk slip-on fitted to the race header ? Is it feasible ? How does it behave with time compared to the Trapp misadventure that most of us seem to experience ? Performance comments with the race header ? | ||
| Mikej |
Working on my WileyCo last night I managed to pop loose one of the nuts welded to the inside face of the inlet plate on the muffler. Bummer. So I put the stock exhaust back on the M2 until I get things fixed. I'll be removing the pop-rivets holding the cap on, then rewelding the nut back onto the inside of the inlet plate. While I have it off I will probably add a small inside pipe extension to protrude into the collector pipe to help reduce some of the blowby potential that is blowing out the gasket. I found a small sheet of .025" thick copper plate in the hobby section of a local hardware store to use for gasket material. Bummer. Looks like I've lost my midrange for the trip, but maybe the quieter exhaust will help me sneek up on more critters to photograph in the national parks. MikeJ (I wonder how much gas I have left in my oxy/acet tanks.) | ||
| Al_Lighton |
Jerome, While it's still in good shape, I'd seriously consider getting someone to do a fillet weld around that entire perimeter. I intend to make a stainless sheet donut, then cut it in half, put the two halves around the inlet pipe, and then weld it to the inlet pipe and then to the muffler end plate. If you already have 4 welds there, you would possibly need to grind those down/off before you could do a plate fix like I'm gonna do. The muffler end plate is cold formed into a circular 90 bend around the inlet pipe. Looks to me like they've cold worked the metal with too tight a bend radius. And then they weld it to the inlet pipe at the END of the 90 degree flange inside the muffler (obviously before welding the end plate to the sheet metal can) with the most hideous stainless welds I've seen in a while. I'm not sure why the didn't just weld it at the 90 degree bend, it would have helped eliminate some of the flexing that contributes to the cracking at the front. They must be getting one helluva lot of warranty returns on this, you'd think they'd figure it out. It isn't rocket science. Between work and the colorado fest, and the fact that they haven't even processed my warranty claim yet, I'm a month away from from implementing this fix. I'm taking the S3 to colorado, 4500 miles on the S1 and they'd probably have to amputate my butt. Al | ||
| Mikej |
What's the preferred packing material to use in a muffler? I'm thinking that since I've got the thing opened up I might as well repack it unless the repacking material is too expensive then I'll just shove it back together as is. Also, is there any trick to packing the filler material around the round inner tube and inside the oval outer housing of the muffler, do you just lay a pile of packing material along the wide sides, then do a wrap around the perimeter and shoehorn the assemblage back into the muffler? Thanks for any inputs. | ||
| Javahed |
HI, Just bought a 2000 X!. I'm looking to add a slip on muffler now, and some new pipes down the road for increase performance. There seems to be a million variations, does anyone out there have any recomendations? (The bike has 520 miles and as of today all Redline oils in it.) I know this is not an exauhst related question, but I was considering picking up a "pro series X1 race air cleaner assembly, part # 91420-99y, out of the Buell apparal and accesories catalog from HD. Is this a good setup or is their a better air induction system out there? I'm a daily driver, back and forth to work and daily pleasure riders also. Heck, I guess I'm open to any performance suggestions -- spark plugs, wires, etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated  Thanks, Dan kdcarol@qwest.net | ||
| Dvnt |
Yo Java, The Air filter assembly is a kit (made by K&N) that uses your existing airbox by gutting it and adding a less restrictive air filter. If you like the look of the black tank accents then go woth this setup. If you want to ditch them go with some thing else like the hypercharger form ASB (american sport bike, click the link to the left). As far as the pipe and muffler system there are alot of choices. I have the Vance and Hines SS2R slip on, its a nice pipe but quieter (it's still louder than stock!) than other aftermarket pipes. REMEMBER! to take FULL advantage of a new pipe with this engine it will be nessesary to get the Race ECM or another aftermarket F.I. controller like the Powercommander III from DynoJet. You relly can't spend less than about $600-700 on a new exaust system with this bike. I have a good setup on my 2001 X1: K&N filter (the pro series one), V&H SS2R Slip on, Power Commander, O2 sensor, Race ECM. 88 HP, 81 Ftpds! K&N $70 V&H $300 PC3 $340 O2sen $150 Race $160 Total $1020 Not too shabby Reply with more questions... we're here to help. Oh, another thing get the recalls done and upgrade as many parts to 2001 specs, Muffler mount, shift linkage, etc. HAVE FUN!!! | ||
| Javahed |
Sounds great! I just installed the pro seris K&N filter setup and should be picking up a V&H slipon within the next couple of days. A race ECM will follow, but I need to do some reading since I know nothing about them, any advice? Why did you switch the O2 sensor? Any specific brands better than others? Thanks for the advice so far :D Dan | ||
| Richieg150 |
 This is my Vance and Hines slip-on.The first time it broke,it broke where the bolt goes thru.Had that welded. 1 week later it broke above the weld on the pipe!But not to worry,Vance and Hines will replace the defective pipe,1 time and 1 time only!So if or should i say when my next pipe mount breaks,im ##cked!I was told to forget about the warranty,its only good for 1 time!I guess after that I will have to design a mount of my own for their pipe!The moral of the story DONT BUY A VANCE AND HINES PIPE!There are pipes out there,that if they break will be replaced promptly,as many times as it takes to correct the problem!If I had know then, what I know now,I would have bought ANY OTHER PIPE!So if your after a good ##cking on a pipe,by all means buy a VANCE and HINES!BY the way I have a Vance and Hines pipe for sale,cheap if anyone is interested! | ||
| Javahed |
Ahrgh! That looks ugly. I was talking to a Buell tech at Bellevue (WA) That mentioned that problem. He said to loosen the header bolts, then install the slip on (V&H type) and tighten everything down together. I'm not sure how that would change stresses in the muffler??? Anyone have any good luck with other mufflers, what's the opinion out there on a high performance muffler? Loud is OK, just as long as I don't get arrested for pissing off the neighbors at 0530 when I go to work ;) Thanks Dan | ||
| Dvnt |
Java, Keep in mind the more probable reason for the V&H pipe to break is the front exaust mount on the 2000 or earlier Buells. Get the new exaust mount with the "forked tounge". The problem Rich had could have been on any pipe, that mount really sucked. Imagine your STOCK pipe popping off from the front mount and POLL Vaulting you off you bike at 50 MPH. UPGRADE TO THE 2001 MOUNT, snd you'll probaly not have a problem with any muffler. Incidently, the V&H Slip-on is the quietest I've seen on a buell. Jeff | ||
| Blake |
Dvnt Jeff: I wouldn't say the Buell mount caused the failure on the wimpy V&H front bracket. I mean c'mon, compare that ill advised single blade to the doubled up and reinforced stock muffler bracketry. Can you say "MAJOR stress concentration"? | ||
| Dvnt |
Regardless of if the V&H bracket or the Buell bracket is the problem, I think upgrading can't make anything worse. | ||
| Richieg150 |
Well,just installed the NEW Vance and Hines slip-on with the new front mount on it.The front mount was redesigned,it is alot beefer and it has an L shape and is welded to the pipe!By the looks of the new front mount,I dont think I will have to worry about the mount on this new pipe breaking!Ive had a couple other bikes with V&H pipes,and everything was ok on those.So I was surprised when this pipe broke,but more SHOCKED at what their customer service rep told me!So what Im saying is,the new V&H pipe is probably going to be fine!V&H's claim to fame has been,more horsepower without being really loud.I originally decided on the V&H pipe after checking other slip-ons claims,and a couple were compairing their pipes to V&H.So,if your after more horsepower,a nice sound,but not really loud ,the Vance and Hines slip-on is a good choice. | ||
| Blake |
Jeff: The front muffler hanger was redesigned to address problems with the rubber grommet getting chewed up allowing a rattling, loose front muffler hanger connection. The new hanger was NEVER a safety issue or mandatory recall. It is a factory sponsored free upgrade. | ||
| Aaron |
I've seen bikes that would literally rip the pipe once the mount had been beefed up enough to withstand the load. I personally don't believe this issue is as simple as the strength of the mountings, or the tightening sequence, or the clamped together stress, or the way the bike is ridden, etc etc. AW | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just paid my local dealer (Eastgate Buell in Cincinnati) about $100 for that front exhaust hanger kit, and I will be putting it in myself. Am I just out the cash, or is there the possibility for reimbursment? Annoying. I asked them if it was covered under some sort of recall, but they as usual had no clue. With 2 month lead times and 5 day waits for service, I would not have had them do the work anyway. At least they had the part in stock (which is remarkable in itself). Seems kinda silly that as a resident of Ohio, my "local" Buell dealer will be in either Texas or Modesto. | ||
| Dvnt |
All right Blake you win! It's the V&H pipe. I just hope mine doesn't break. | ||
| Blake |
CheepReeper: Print out the Bulletin above and demand restitution. Then, find another dealer? How tf can a service manager NOT know about this stuff? (You did ask the service manager right, not the parts guy?) BTW, with a stock header/muffler, and you doing the work yourself... I'd personally wait until the original hanger had problems before changing to the redesigned version. You may not ever have a problem. I had no trouble on either my first '97 M2 (crashed at 18K miles) or my '00 M2 (now at around 15K miles), and my new '97 M2 still has the old style mount holding up a Borla CF muffler. | ||
| Blake |
Dvnt: Me too. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I pursued it because the rubber grommit on the old style front mount was shredded beyond recognition, and I had busted a header stud flush (*shudder*) after not noticing the bolts had worked loose (along with the rest of the exhaust system). Everything is pinned back down now (with what was left of the shredded isolator), but I get a slight tapping of the old mount against the voltage regulator, and a little too much play at the front exhaust mount. As for the dealer (Eastgate Buell in Cincinnati), I had already written them off. They are friendly and want to do the right thing, but they seem incapable of following through with even the most simple request without 5 followup calls and detailed explanations (repeated over and over). They also seem a little confused on this whole "I am the customer, they are the vendor" thing. I had to go to them to get the shock recall done, but I had already decided I was not going back... a variety of screwups on their end cost me 6 months of riding a completely undamped pogo-stick of a cyclone. That being said, the work they did installing the shock seems to be pretty solid. They did not go so far as adjust the suspension for me... but they at least got all the bolts back on correctly, which is more then some of the dealers seem to be able to manage. Since they are across town (hour round trip), and highly annoying to deal with even when we are NOT in an adversarial position... I will probably just write it off... not worth my time unless I have to go back to them for some other reason, which I will try and avoid. Oh well. | ||
| Ron |
I just got a screaming good deal (from a price perspective) on a Borla header and muffler system for my 2000 S-3T. The whole thing went on very nicely and I did not have to pry or bend or jack anything into place. It fit really well. I installed a K&N at the same time and did the airbox modification of removing the snorkel and adding a velocity ring. I made an aluminum bracket for the air cleaner and air sensor. BIG difference in seat of the pants power. The sound is totally wonderful!! Not as loud as most V&H pipes I have heard and no where near as loud as Super Trapp and the factory race system. Did note that the plugs are light gray so have ordered up a Race ECM. Has anyone had problems with broken mounts on this system? I will be getting with my dealer tomorrow on the bracket upgrade. I noted that the service buttetin had a life span of one year which is up July 1. So if any of the rest of us want to pull our dealers chain on this we need to do it asap. | ||
| M2phoneman |
Hey all, I was just surfin' around and saw that Two Brothers Racing is looking for a 2001 X1 for fitment/dyno testing. They need someone in So. Cal. They say you'll get a free exhaust system. www.twobros.com Matt | ||
| Reepicheep |
I just finished putting the upgraded exhaust mount on my 2000 cyclone. It was straight forward, but time consuming. Here are the only things that were issues. 1) I went to extra lengths to make sure the voltage regulator was grounded, including the Modesto hack (in the old noble sense of the word) of running a wire from the bolt (which you know is grounded) to a scratched clear place on the voltage regulator base. I also removed a lot of paint to make lots of ground connections available. 2) My old ground up bushing had let the exhaust float around way to much up front. In less then 300 miles, it had eaten through about a third of the mounting bracket thickness. Buell exausts are not to be trifled with! 3) It is easy to crossthread the bolts holding in the rear exaust mounts. It is just as easy to tap them out to clean up the threads when you do. Don't panic and go slowly. 4) When it says to jack the bike up with a bottle jack, you really do have to. One of the front hanger bolts goes all the way through the engine to the shock mount bracket. You would think any Buell dealer worth their salt would do this upgrade at the same time they do the shock upgrade... some (cough--eastgate buell in Cincinnati--cough) don't, and don't even appear to know there might be issues with the old mount. 5) I used the advice above and tightened the whole system gradually, tapping on and wiggling things as I went along. The theory is that you don't want to torque things down in prestressed conditions. Sounded like a good idea, I did it. 6) They call for loktite blue in lots of places... have some on hand. 7) They want you to add a lock nut behind the weld nut on the back hanger muffler wraparound bracket. I got one of them, but they have to be kidding about the other one... I can't see how anyone could possibly get any kind of wrench up in there... much less a torque wrench. Any of you dealer types know the trick to doing this? More interestingly, any of you golden dealer (cough-modesto-cough) types who had a dealer installed upgrade want to look and see if they actually managed to get those locknuts behind those weldnuts? OK... I only have one question now. The rearmost exhaust hanger had a lot of play where it was attached to the subframe (the part that stays attached to the bike, not the part that wraps around the muffler). I was concerned these mounts had worked themsleves loose, but when I went to tighten them (a terrible job, impossible to get to) they were already seriously torqued. Anyone know if that bracket should rattle around like that when the rest of the muffler is not yet attached? It does not seem to rattle now that the rest of the system is buttoned up. Sorry for the long post. Anyone who has the old exhaust mounts REALLY needs to update to the new one. Take this from a guy that suffered through a busted header stud... that is NOT an experience you want to share. The new mount works far better then the old one EVER could, even before the old one shredded its bushings (100 miles or so). Buell really is trying to make things right, and I appreciate their help, even if I have to pay for parts that should be free and spend a sunday evening putting them in myself to make sure it is done right.... Bill | ||
| Blake |
Bill: You may have changed my mind versus leaving the old mount on my '97. I'll for sure continue keeping a real close eye on it. Your excellent dscription is worthy of a patch. Court! Send Bill a patch on me would ya?  | ||
| Loqtus |
I'm not sure if this is common knowledge or not but most of the Buell racers I spoke with this weekend at VIR use no front hangers at all. Most of the guys I talked to were using race headers and mufflers and were only using rear mounts. They indicated that they used to break pipes with the front mount installed but with the pipe allowed to wiggle around a bit they have no such problem. Any comments? |
