| Author | Message | ||
     12mpghwy |
I can't get the cams to line up like it shows in FSm. I can line up the front cylinder cams with the crank and rear intake cam but the rear exhaust cam mark is off . It will get close to lining up if rotated a few degrees. One tooth in either direction will make it way off. Any thoughts on if this is ok | ||
| Alfau |
I had that experience too. So long as they line up as the gears rotate. You'll feel better when it starts. | ||
| 12mpghwy |
Thanks for the input, I am a little ways from starting it but I ran it a few revs by hand with rockers visible and it looked correct in comparison with TDC. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Make sure you get your face right down there. If your point of view is off to the side or too far above, it will make those marks look terrible. I had a hell of a time with my ironhead's cams until I got right down and "assumed the position" | ||
| Akbuell |
One other thing - If the cams have been out for a while, a caution on start-up. When I put in the new, improved oil pump drive gear in my X-1, I got everything buttoned up, just about ready to go. Turned the engine over generously via starter with the plugs out. Plugs in, started the engine, and almost immediately shut it down. Incredible, terrible noise. Seriously considered tearing it down again. Decided I had put it back together properly, and figured the lifters had 'bled down', causing excess valve clearance. A sub 2K rpm lap of the block solved the issue. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| Madmacks |
I'm with Natexl1000 on this. I had a hell of a time with mine as well until I "assumed the position"... was on my S&S race engine but same idea... now I plop them in and out like eggs in a crate..get down on the floor or raise the table way up so you're looking straight on..they will line up!! | ||
| 12mpghwy |
You guys got me worried. I was definitely in the position with a flashlight in broad daylight. I had no problem lining up 3 out of 4 and as mentioned the 4th one (exhaust on rear cyl) would line up when rotating the crank maybe 3-4 degrees. Well I got it started after a top end rebuild and it ran seeming normal on both cylinders, after running on one initially do to a stuck injector. There is more valve noise than I remember but it could be that I didn't put enough lube in the tappets. I took them apart and cleaned them out. Also its been 6 years and I am probably super sensitive to noise after the rebuild. I am thinking I will idle it tomorrow long enough to warm it up and see if the noise changes. If it doesn't then I will take off the cam cover and post up a picture to show you guys what I am talking about. | ||
| Harleyelf |
While you had the lifters out, you should have soaked them in a jar of oil overnight. It sounds like you aligned the marks correctly. A picture would help. | ||
| Reepicheep |
It will sound awful until you ride it around the block or let it idle for a while. It's really alarming. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I would think if you got the timing gears off by a tooth, the thing probably wouldn't idle. at least on one cylinder. | ||
| Phelan |
If you installed bigger cams, there very well could be more valve noise due to different lobe ramp shape as well, or even valve to valve or valve to piaton contact, if you didn't clay it beforehand to measure. | ||
| Harleyelf |
If he has metal-on-metal contact, wouldn't he have heard it while running the starter with the plugs out? | ||
| 12mpghwy |
In all honestly I think I am being hypersensitive to the noise. It is certainly idling on 2 cylinders. I did squirt oil into the tappets as shown in the FSM but the soak in oil sounds like a better idea. These are stock cams and parts. I think I could have the gear case on and off in an hour so I might do that tonight. My concern is that even though I didn't hear or feel anything when turning the engine over by hand and with the starter the oil pressure wasn't high enough to set the valve lash and the exhaust valve is extending further and idle and just touching the piston top. (Message edited by 12mpghwy on November 17, 2016) | ||
| Akbuell |
Um, if the valve lash isn't set because the lifters have bled down, the valve will open later, close sooner, and not open as far because of excess clearance. And the valve will only 'just' touch the piston top once or twice before bending, and you WILL be running on one cylinder. Seriously, before tearing it apart, try running around the block a time or two below 2K RPM. It worked for me when I had that same issue. Hope this helps, Dave | ||
| 12mpghwy |
Hey so I ran the bike for 10 minutes to warm it up and the sound never really changed. Its louder than I remember but Its been so long since I have had the bike functional that it could be within the norm. The the FSM says you should be able to spin the pushrods by hand. How important is that? I have big hands so its hard to get a purchase on the pushrods but I certainly can't do that with any of the pushrods. (Message edited by 12mpghwy on November 18, 2016) | ||
| Alfau |
they are a noisy piece of shit..maintain rpm approx 2.5. | ||
| Brother_in_buells |
You have to ride the bike for a longer time ,some lifters take longer to fill up. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Huh? I don't recall exactly, but once the lifters are pumped up, I would be suprised to find I could spin the pushrods by hand. But again, I haven't tried in years. | ||
| 1313 |
Oh no, Bill, it's possible. There's been times that I had to recalibrate my senses to ensure that it wasn't my fingers slipping on the pushrods, and that it was the pushrods that were actually spinning. The lifters need to 'bleed down' to a point that this is possible... 1313 | ||
| Hootowl |
Not sure about Buells (never had my cams out) but the pushrods in my truck spin by hand. When the lifter is properly centered with no oil pressure, the pushrod should spin. If it doesn't, you've bottomed our the lifter. Zero lash plus a half - three quarter turn. I would imagine it's the same for any engine with pushrods and hydraulic lifters, except there's no adjustment on the Buell. | ||
| 12mpghwy |
Well the pushrods are certainly too tight to turn by hand on this buell. Its hard to actually grab the pushrod and more like I am rubbing on it with me finger over actually getting any purchase on it. I am sure I could turn it with needle nose pliers but the FSM is pretty explicit about turning it with fingers. I am not sure how you would adjust this as mentioned above both all of these parts are non adjustable. Perhaps double up on the rocker box gaskets? I guess I should take the pushrods out and measure them and if they are correct and I still can spin them around maybe replace the tappets I wanted to mention that the head and base gaskets were replaced with new OEM and the rocker box gasket is also new OEM. It is the gasket kit that crossed over from the gasket kit recommended in the buell parts manual. Also the head and cylinders have not been machined. (Message edited by 12mpghwy on November 18, 2016) | ||
| Alfau |
  Did you get this right. | ||
| Phelan |
You can only spin them with your fingers when the corresponding cam is on the base circle (no lift). With the tubes in place, you would likely have no room or leverage to do so, so I wouldn't worry about it. I just did valve to valve and valve to piston clearance checking on a 90" build, and left the tubes off, and once the lifter were bled down, I could indeed spin the pushrods by hand, but only when there was no lift involved. | ||
| Phelan |
 | ||
| 12mpghwy |
phelan you are right on. I didn't check this when I installed them. I was able to get them to turn by had even with pushrod tubes in place. What I had to do was leave the engine so there was valve spring pressure on each lifter for about 1-2 hours each. Then I was able to get in with a finger and easily spin them by hand. Gravity would not bleed them down even overnight. since I have the rocker boxes loose I am going to take the cam cover off and verify my work on the cam timing. I will post a few pictures when I get there. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That makes sense. So on *reassmbly*, when the cams are timed correctly and the lifters are not pumped up, you should be able to turn the pushrods by hand. Nice check. On a bike that was already run, it would depend on how long it takes the lifters to bleed down. | ||
| Hootowl |
The lifter's plunger should center each time the valve closes (that's why they don't need adjustment once set). When the cam is not trying to open the valve, even after you run the engine, you should be able to spin the pushrod. If the lifter is pushing hard enough on the pushrod to keep you from turning it, your valve is not closing all the way. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Don't freak out if the marks don't align. They only look like that every umteenth rotation. A bit of backing and forthing can take the spring pressure off the cams one at a time and allow you to re-set them without pulling the rocker arms. |
