| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
I actually agreed with you 96S2t. I never fouled a plug on my XB9 no matter what awful things I did to it. I fouled plugs lightly a few times on the M2, but nothing I couldn't get the bike to cough it's way through and clear up after a hard run. But my 07 Uly has absolutely and unequivocally fouled plugs. Once as a result of me making lots of starts and short runs to track down a bad CPS sensor, another time doing the same thing to track down engine knock. The bike just wouldn't start after several attempts over a few hours, pull plugs, put in new plugs, and it fires right up. I did it on the KZ-400 also, no spark at all, even with the plugs out of the engine and watching for spark. But I won't count that one, as it turned out the crankcase was full of gas from a bad needle seat, and it's a points motor anyway. My KDX-200, once properly ported and jetted, doesn't ever foul a plug. My KX-60 will foul a plug just by making eye contact with it.  So I agree with you in pretty much every case but this one. | ||
| Ourdee |
My turn. What brand oil filter did you install? | ||
| Dan_m |
@Ourdee: the oil filter i used is a Hiflo (HF177). Also before i did the oil and filter change, same oil filter was installed on bike. @Reepicheep: the difficulty of starting the engine that i was talking about in the previous post was first time when i encountered since i own this bike, and it was first cold start in that day. Until then the bike was starting very easy (usually at second engine cranking, after pressing the starter button) Last thing that i checked was primary chain slack. it was at the maximum side of adjustment (12-13mm). This means i ruled out also the primary chain to be out of adjustment. So i guess that i'm dealing with lifters issue. Now i have to begin to tear down process, but i am sure that it will be a long one  . Fortunately i didn't sell the other bike yet (the Futura), so yesterday i did the oil change and renewed the insurance. Today i rode it to work (first time on this bike after 9 months). WOW, night and day difference in handling department. Ulysses is way better even with pillion and loaded sidecases. Again, thanks for help, i really appreciate. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Gotta love the noises a two stroke triple makes. I restored a Bison, which was basically 1/3rd of that motor. The thing pulled HARD when it was on the pipe. Kawasaki did NOT mess around when building those things. | ||
| 96s2t |
Here is a few more of my bikes   | ||
| 96s2t |
 Crazy fast frankenbike | ||
| 96s2t |
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| Reepicheep |
Those are awesome! Love the chromed expansion pipes, the best kind of insanity. Sorry for the thread hijack Dan. I went the lifter route on my Uly, and it didn't help. You can get Melling lifters from the autoparts store that are virtually identical to the HD lifters, and if you want to make them truly indistinguishable you just swap over a washer (probably a valve disc). It will save you quite a bit of money over the stock HD parts, and the mellings, which were probably the old OEM supplier, are arguably better than the new OEM parts. I can dig up part numbers if you need them, but I think you should chase down and eliminate some simpler variables first. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Oh, and finally got to a machine where I could listen to that audio. I take back what I just said about simpler variables first. Something in there is really wrong. If it were me, I would do the following in the following order: 0) Verify it has enough oil in it, both in engine and in primary (separate systems) 1) Compression test 2) Disassemble top end down to the cases, inspect everything (this signs you up to needing a $50 USD gasket kit, the Cometic one is probably nicer than the HD one) 3) Remover the cam cover, inspect everything in there, including oil pump gear You have the 09, so you have one of the good cranks and the better oiling system. | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
I found a 1974 H2 500 and that thing was awesome! It sat for 15 years in a heated garage and after rebuilding the carbs, gas tank, hydraulics it was ready to rip. The steering damper worked great but the was a lot of twitchness in that little bike! | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Maybe I missed it Reepicheep but the only audio I saw in this thread is on the video Hugh posted. It is not a video of Dan_m's bike. | ||
| Teeps |
H1 = 500cc H2 = 750cc Also the 500s built after 1971 were slower than '69 & '70 models. But, the '72 and later models had better suspension, such as it was, and disk front brake. (Message edited by teeps on June 13, 2016) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks! Missed that, I was scanning too quickly. Yup. Hugh's crank was bad. A piston from that bike looks nice sitting here on my desk. | ||
| 96s2t |
The best city commuter triple is the KH 400 1976 and the best riding H2 triple is the 74/75 H2B/H2C. Sorry for sidetracking this thread but I thought the poster was done and was tearing it apart.  | ||
| Hugie03flhr |
Oops H1, it was back in 1996 but I do remember it was a Mach III . I'm pretty sure that was the first year with electronic ignition. That saved a lot of time fixing it up. I wish I had a pic off hand. The guys at the Kawasaki dealer were calling it the original widow maker. I thought that was cool since I owned the second widow maker. 1984 GPZ750 turbo  | ||
| 96s2t |
69 H1  | ||
| Dan_m |
I cannot make any update to this topic, because i didn't had time to investigate more, yet. But, i am looking on ebay for an ECM cable and exhaust valve actuator. Ok, for ecm cable, all the cables i find, in description i see that they are compatible only for bikes up to 2008. So this cable is not compatible for a 2009 bike? And for exhaust valve actuator, do you think this is the type with metal gears inside? http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-10-BUELL-XB-XB12R-XB12- XB9R-XB9-R-Exhaust-Valve-Servo-Actuator-/182155786 846 Thanks! | ||
| Jhallgren |
Have you checked the lifters? Maybe have a bad lifter that is not filling up and holding oil in it. Depending on how bad it is and is not pumping up with any oil, the valve may not open fully and could cause your low power issue. Do you have a stethoscope to see where the noise is most pronounced? Just a thought as the lifters are right above the oil pump assembly on the right side where you took the video. hope you get it figured out. | ||
| Reepicheep |
So just to recap (since I helped hijack your thread ) You have a 2009 XB12XT with about 20k miles. It is fairly new to you, and you got a knock or tap shortly after changing the oil and getting a check engine light. You are also experiencing a power loss. That is the new crank and oiling system, so it would be REALLY unusual to have a crank failure unless there was something else going on (oil line failure, abuse, poor past maintenance, etc). You can get Melling lifters that look pretty much identical to the HD lifters pretty cheaply. I *think* the acuators where you can't see the screws to take them apart are the new metal gear versions. | ||
| Tempest766 |
I learned to ride on an old Yamee RD-350 street 2-stroke back in the mid-80s. It had been rusting in the back yard for years and my old man finally said I could tinker with it. Seeing that white smoke belching out the back end of frankenbike in the photos brings back memories. | ||
| Dan_m |
I didn't made any update here because i had one week vacation and i wasn't home. But, before i left i managed to tear down the engine to check the lifters. Apart from a broken stud form the front cylinder header, i didn't had any difficulties in this process. Ok, what i noticed was: - from all of the 4 lifters, the rear intake one was full of oil in the top end (where the pushrod is sitting). - i tested all 4 lifters by pressing them with my fingers (one fingers on the roller, other finger on top end) and the rear intake lifter was the only one where i noticed that i can push in the piston applying finger force (maybe 1mm). So i guess that responsible for the knocking sound is the rear intake lifter and this also explain the power loss i experienced (as Jhallgren is suggesting) - on a flat surface i checked if the pushrods are straight, Again only to rear intake pushrod i noticed a very slight bend. I could insert the 0.15mm feeler gauge in the gap between the lifter and the flat surface. In this case do you think i should replace this pushrod also? - also on rear intake lifers i also noticed a wear line on the roller. It is only detectable visually, i checked with my neil and i dind't felt anything across the roller. So i'm guessing that i also have to remove the oil pump to check the condition of the cam gear. - last thing, and i'm thinking that this is not something uncommon from what i've read out there, is that there is a lot of carbon buildup starting from the inside of throttle body up to piston head. Apart from removing the valves, is cleaning the carbon deposit a difficult job? A picture with the wear line on the lifter roller.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
Looking forward to some smart old person to shed light on this one. When I was in the same boat, I just replaced all four lifters. You can get mellings that are just about identical to the HD parts at your local auto parts store for like $50 or something. The only difference I could see was the size of the hole in one end, but that was in a little plate that was easy to swap from old to new (which I did, but that I doubt was really necessary). | ||
| Sagehawk |
Wanted to ask about carbon buildup in actual combustion chamber. Are there any gold colored spots on top of pistons that correspond with same colored spots in head? Now this being carbon, not aluminum of piston or head. If you carbon to the point of piston hitting head, then you'll have all sorts of noise and possible destruction in upper end. Might explain lifter and pushrod symptoms if parts were hitting hard. What carbon builds like that, it's hard, not soft unless you soak it off. On rebuild, check the deck height with clay or whatever you have, to know what clearance is in combustion chamber and valve to piston pockets if you have those. All of us need to decide longer run times ( more clearance) or more performance ( less clearanxce). You can change cylinder base gaskets or head gaskets to make it what you want with stock parts. Or machining of parts to really change things. Let us know as you go thru build | ||
| Sagehawk |
Another thought, to mark a hardened part like lifter roller, something likewise as hard went through. Primary case checks on all bearings, bushings, oil pump, whatever else goes round or back n forth. Be sure of crank pinion runout, rod checks, etc. If you can , see what crank Reed valve looks like. Cracked, broke or whatever. We never hear about those and life expectancy of Reed material. Lastly , oil jets still whole and in place? That's all I can think of to start with. | ||
| Twisteduly |
Dan - have you removed the "new" oil filter and inspected it? Cut it apart and see what went on in there. | ||
| Tootal |
The only difference I could see was the size of the hole in one end, but that was in a little plate that was easy to swap from old to new (which I did, but that I doubt was really necessary). The Harley design needs that bigger hole to feed the lifters so it's good that you changed that part. I used Johnson Hylift lifter in my twin cam and they fed more oil to the top end. On Zipper's site they show #472-500 as the part number for Sportsters and I'm assuming their the same for the Buell. | ||
| Dan_m |
Yesterday i checked visually the cylinders and the pistons and took some pictures: - carbon buildup on top of front piston (the marks from top of piston are made by me, when i inserted a screwdriver to search for TDC);  - carbon buildup on top of rear piston;  - front cylinder wall scoring (notice that the scoring is highly visible on lower side of the piston stroke). i dind't took pictures to rear cylinder because it has same marks as front);  - front piston skirt scoring. again, i didn't took pictures to rear piston because it looks same as front So, is this normal wear for an engine with 34 000km? Or something is wrong inside the engine?  Another thing that i noticed and dont' know if it is bad, is that the front connecting rod has side play. (the test was holding the connecting rod below the piston and rock it left to right). I din't measured it, but i say somewhere between 3 or 4mm play. Rear connecting rod has a lot less side play. Both connecting rods have no up and down play. I see in the service manual that the way to check the side to side play. Next i want to remove the oil filer and inspect it as Twisteduly is suggesting, also to remove the oil pump and gear cams and inspect them. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The carbon looks bad, but normal for the milage unfortunately. The scoring doesn't look that bad to me, nor does the piston. I believe the side to side play is normal for a crank, but I would like to hear from an expert. It is up and down play that I know is the problem. The "rule of thumb" I have heard is that if you can't feel the scoring with a fingernail, it isn't scored. | ||
| Tootal |
Agreed, scoring is not a big deal. You can still see the cross hatch marks from honing. For that mileage it looks really good to me. Side to side play is normal on the rods. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Your pistons and cylinders look far better than my 07, which suffered a rod bearing failure at ~29,000 miles. Carbon on your piston tops looks a little worse. If you haven't done the breather re-route yet, that's a good reason to do it. If it was mine, I'd clean up the pistons, lightly hone the cylinders, install new rings, install new valve lifters, new oil seals, maybe lap the valves by hand, and button it back up. |
