Well OK, It has got around to my pet pee. The number one need for my bike is: "the Buell handles better" The number two desire for my bike is: "and is smaller" The number three: "the Buell has better brakes"
If the bike is nimble, lighter, better handling, and quicker stopping,It will be more forgiving and safer in traffic. I would even say not needing any electronic wizardry to make up for inept rider skill. Now to go one step further, I don't need a helmet because I can choose to not crash.... Yep, we prepare for the unseen and out of our control situations. Along with those times we just have to push the envelope, brothers? During ice storms on the interstate on multi state trips, I like having all the electronic help I can at 60 mph +. I also like being able to disengage the ABS or lock in 4WD, or change the traction map in the computer at the flick of a switch depending on the situation. It is very nice to be able to swap out the envelope. My car can. I don't see those options on any street bike systems yet. I am for the different license levels for larger bikes not mandatory systems to help inept riders. Not to mention hindering them from learning.
I had an interesting ABS situation in 2004. I was driving my fairly new 2003 GMC short bed 2wd pickup when it randomly and suddenly went sideways at 60 mph on an Interstate highway in traffic of it's own accord. I was in the left lane of three on a slight curve, the road was wet after a summer rain. No reason for sudden change in direction.
The left rear brake locked up with no input from me. The brake warning lights came on. I counter steered and got it to slide in a forward direction. Then the brake let go and it snapped back to straight causing a bit of a slide the other way. I got that straight and started to relax a bit looking for a gap through traffic to get off to the right berm when the right rear locked up causing it to kick out sideways to the right. By then the vehicles around me had backed away and let me off to the right.
When I got stopped the warning lights shut off and all went back to normal. I got out walking around the truck and saw nothing out of the ordinary, so I proceeded slowly. A few exits down was the dealership where I purchased the truck, so I figured this was a good time for a visit.
As I was explaining what happened the service manager took my keys and ordered a rental replacement vehicle for me. He walked away to call GM and his assistant took over talking to me. It became obvious that they were on the watch for this type of problem. They locked down my truck telling me to take what ever I needed out of it, because it was not allowed to leave the dealership according to the GM rep on the phone.
They had several execs from GM come to look at my truck. They replaced every single part of the ABS system, computers, wires, sensors, even the instrument cluster. It was like the FBI took over for a while with all of the secret seriousness of their attitudes.
When I went to retrieve my truck a couple of weeks later I asked the service manager what the problem was, he said he did not know. A GM rep was there as they removed the parts. He packed everything up and took it with him. They never told him what the cause was.
Liking ABS to me I guess could be compared to a person who had been shot not liking a gun. Myself, with the cooperation of several folks driving near me, were a lucky group in that that wreck did not happen.
It is an electrical system. Though it rarely occurs, they can fail.
Glad to hear from you again and always enjoy your input.
I read your comparison and will have to try to get a demo ride on one of the R1200GSWs. I only tried a boxer once and didn't care for it. It was kind of sluggish and I got this longitudinal rocking motion when starting out. At speed of course this was not at all noticeable.
I fit your "profile", always do my own work, mostly retired MSME, 165 lbs on a 6' frame, exactly the same age and ridden for years; so what's good for you may be good for me!
I should be the poster child for no ABS here. I had a Corolla pull out in front of me from a blind hole in traffic, and I was already covering the front brake, and I did a perfectly executed turning stoppie with a fully laden Ulysses to where the Corolla was mostly not, hit it mirrors first, and somersaulted over the rear trunk (instead of doing a header into the A pillar).
But I still think ABS is a net gain on a street bike.
I don't disagree about experience being a huge benefit as well. But I would argue you won't get enough of it on a street bike. They are too expensive and too dangerous to drop finding the limits.
I knew the limits because I have spent a lot of time riding dirt bikes and dual sports on greasy ohio mud and rock filled creek beds.
So the solution is obvious. Equip streetbikes with ABS, and include a 1995 KDX-200 with every street bike purchase, and mandate lots of trail time.
Thanks for your input Dr. Greg... I have time now, I'll rebuild my original motor/trans while I'm riding the transplant so I'm hopefully heading into 5-6 years of trouble free motoring. Maybe by then Erik Buell will be back with a replacement!
Y'know, I was gonna keep my (second) '06 Uly as a "commute" bike, but it developed a "miss" which I could not track down. So I sold it to a nearby grad student for relatively little $$$.
Silly me...turns out it was the well-known ECM/seat interaction. Hah, so much for my intellectual diagnostic skills! But I had too many motorcycles anyway.
Have always admired EB as a designer, but there are a lotta good bikes out there. My "food" comment still holds.
Since this has turned into a "rider aid" war, specifically ABS.
I don't care if a bike has it or not; it would be nice to have the option to buy a new bike without it. The ability to turn it off is not the same as the bike not having the system in the first place...
However, coming from corporate automotive side of transportation. over the last 25 + years I witnessed driver aids trickle down all the way to base models. Same with, A/C, power windows and locks. Turns out, it gets cheap enough, to just put the former luxury features on everything being built.
I fit your "profile", always do my own work, mostly retired MSME, 165 lbs on a 6' frame, exactly the same age and ridden for years; so what's good for you may be good for me!
Good for you...although what I wouldn't give for those 4 inches...
Interesting to see so many varied views. Also interesting to see so many try to discredit the many capable bikes out there. $15k for a Tiger 800? You can find then easily for thousands less. The MSRP is not even close to that.
Even bikes that cost that much for real (like my own full disclosure KTM 1190) can be had for a few thousand less used now.
No, the KTM does not feel like the Uly. It feels bigger, like all liter up adventure bikes do now. That's why I keep the Uly. I also keep it to remind me to ride like I don't have electronic rider aids. However, that is a big reason I bought the KTM. If you have not ridden it or another of comparable tech, don't judge on what you think you know. It's aids are truly transparent until you need them, and have a wide range of user adjustability (from OFF, to full, to anywhere in between).
Suspension - The Uly was the best suspension I have had (my '00 Ducati ST2 was close, but narrowly focused). Until I got the KTM. It takes bigger hits, plus smooths out little stuff better than the Uly. Way more versatile. Possibly gives up a slight amount of front tire feel in exchange. I rode them both back to back yesterday, and though I appreciate the Uly still for light handling, small feel, and that "connected" feeling, I also appreciate the KTM for versatile power, suspension, and a transmission/clutch that is absolutely perfect. You can lug it below 3K or wring it out to 10k, or anywhere in between. Ok, I must lube the chain every now and then. OK, I will have to adjust valves about once every 3 years if I follow the book.
If you are a luddite, fine, stay with what you like. But don't disparage those that are moving on, and don't you dare imply I am a lesser rider than you because I like the extra insurance of a bike that might help me if I have a moment of oversight, or some cage driver makes the decision for me.
I'm keeping the Uly, but I firmly embrace the new when it is done properly. You just have to find out for yourself before you buy, since so much now depends on the calibration engineers working with the electronics. I'm only 5k+ miles in, but so far I can say that KTM did it right with my bike. Aids that stay out of my way until I actually need them, which is hopefully never.
Time will tell for long term experience, since it certainly is true the new bike is much more complex to work on than the Uly.
That just wasn't enough reason for me avoid trying out the current technology.
I also just got a car with most of the latest auto safety aids. It was my wife that insisted on me buying that package, but I do think she was right. They can also all be turned off if you wish, but why not take every advantage on survival that I can get for my family?
Maybe if I was on the KTM I wouldn't have had my low side on the Buell where I lost the front end for some reason. Perhaps some of you will say that I must have been a crappy rider. Fine, go with that. Good thing you have never crashed, and never plan to. In that case there is clearly no need for anything beyond a Model T and a 1910 HD or Indian.
This is a good discussion. It is probably also good to make sure you don't declare that all rider aids are bad based on the fact that some rider aids can be done badly.
I can't afford any motorcycle with ABS, but I have a couple of cars with well done "safety" systems... A 2005 Mini Cooper S (R53, with a supercharger) and a 2006 Saab 9-3 Aero (V6 with a turbo). Both have pretty sophisticated ABS and traction control systems.
On the Saab, I have to go out of my way to hoon, but when I do, both the ABS and traction control seem to be transparent until I need them, and linear and under control when I do need them. For the traction control, power isn't cut too much, and comes back quickly when traction does. It's a little disruptive, but so is just sitting around spinning the tires, which a V6 turbo would do at pretty much any speed under 100mph if you didn't have traction control. So you trade noise for control.
For the Mini, which takes a superhuman effort to drive without going into full hoon mode, even when you are just driving up the block for a gallon of milk, the traction control is a little more edgy. BMW tuned it to give you traction control in the middle of a fairly nicely balanced four wheel slide, dry or wet. I have no idea how they pulled it off, but they did. It mitigates a lot of the drawbacks of a front wheel drive performance car. So again the power cut is disruptive, but so would have been a front wheel spinning wildly (or even worse, a total loss of steering control caused by both front wheels spinning wildly).
On both cars, the ABS has never done anything except stop me faster and better and allowed me to concentrate on steering while the car manages braking. Which is what I would like a motorcycle to do for me too.
OK, fine, on a road where I am the first driver and there is a few inches of loosely packed snow, non ABS might be able to stop a little faster than non ABS... uh... if you are only trying to stop in a straight line. I'll add 20 feet to the already 100 foot gap and sight line I would always maintain anyway driving in that circumstance.
Not criticizing anyone else's choices here, just saying they are wrong to criticize mine as uninformed or poorly thought out.
So I get it if you don't think the cost and complexity and weight of ABS makes sense in all circumstances. And I agree. I'm not adding it to my 1978 KZ-400. (Ok, bad example, given that era of brakes, it probaby DOES have anti lock brakes, because the brakes suck).
But it does make sense in some, perhaps many, circumstances.
ABS is actually an incredibly good teaching tool. Using ABS equipped motorcycles, I am able to take novice riders to braking proficiency levels that it takes most riders many years (if ever) to reach. When you can tell a novice rider that it is safe for them to use balanced braking technique and to brake as hard as they possibly can they are much more willing to bring the bike to the traction threshold. Using ABS as a teaching tool, the rider learns that when they feel ABS become active that they have actually passed the traction threshold and need to use slightly less pressure next try.
With this learned, and the fear of loss-of-control and crashing largely removed, even novice riders learn to pay attention to their bike's behavior, learn to stay short of ABS, and thereby become excellent brakers in a very short period of time. Generally, well beyond what would be expected of an experienced rider, even one with off-road experience.
Amen to Jim (articktm). It's the age old story of "they sure don't make'em like they used to". Good! Yes, we fondly remember lots of older things we used to have; bikes, girlfriends, whatever. Why don't we have them anymore? Cuz we wanted something better. I love having ABS on my new bike. I have a decent idea of what I'm doing too. I hope I never need it. I agree with Mark that it's a great teaching tool, allowing new riders, or anyone for that matter, to find the max braking point without the fear of crashing that a split second of panic can bring. While there are always horror stories that may or may not be true, about some tech gone bad, the truth is that statistically 100% of the time, they function as intended. If you looked hard enough you could likely find an incident where wearing a helmet caused a significant injury, or where someone was hurt by a seat belt. Not gonna make me stop wearing either. We all play the odds every day and I firmly believe that much of the new technology stacks the odds every so slightly more in my favor. Others are free to do what their hearts and minds tell them is right and I won't criticize them for what they think even if i "know" they are wrong. We have enough people like that already in government.
Seems like the topic here is how great the Ulysses really is and what to do at the inevitable end-of-the-road. Sure it's possible to keep these bikes on the road as long as you want, but it turns to a labor of love as some point, and that's fine for those that have that luxury. In fact, I always smile when I see ANY Buell, still rumbling sweetly down the road.
Do I miss my Buells? Very much so. My M2 (bought it brand new, off the floor) was an amazing bike on many levels. And had many problems. At times it was chubby-inducing and at others, I wanted to ghost ride it into the Pacific. Still one of the best looking bikes I have ever seen. And I mean that.
Bought the Uly for two reasons. One, I wanted a bike with more room and comfort for commuting and two, my M2 was leaking oil like the Exxon Valdez. It made sense at the time, and I loved my Uly, much like a fat kid loves cake. Had good luck with the Uly and my tolerance for breakdowns reached a point that scared me into a replacement. We all have a personal tolerance, and I breached mine, sitting at a gas station- with a bike that refused to start.
It did handle and oh baby tore up roads like few can AND was buttery smooth down the highway. So choice. I haven't ridden ALL the bikes out there, but I have been on a bunch and few can match the comfort and control intrinsic to a well adjusted Ulysses.
Looked at many options for a replacement and settled on the FJ-09. Pegs-seat-bars felt close to the Uly, power was not an issue and I think the FJ looks awesome for a sport touring steed. Hate that it has a chain, but modern O-ring & X-ring chains are very good these days. I'm in the bike for $14k, with all the bags and new suspension. Yeah, the FJ is good, but the suspension is the bike's anchor. Fine, but I want more than "fine." Don't know if the FJ will ever be as good as my Uly was, but I know it will start. Pluses minuses.
And then there is BadWeb. No Buell in my garage, but here I am. You guys are great. Don't change. I'll poke my head in here every so often, and say, wazzup???
Be cool, ride safe, and don't take life too serious.
Yeah, love love love my Buells. Luckily I don't really have to rely on them for anything (ride 'em for pleasure mostly), not that being stuck on the side of the road during a vacation is much better than a trip to work. But they've been good mostly. Had an oil pump drive gear grind itself to pieces in my X1, but that wasn't it's fault, •••••• aftermarket part that should never have gone in there in the first place. All better now.
M2 is indeed one of the best looking bikes ever made. Both with the original tail and the S1 conversions it just looks perfect.
Temp in Minneapolis is above 60 degrees! Roads are reasonably free of gravel & salt from the winter. Just went home during lunch and rode the Uly back to work. 40 years of riding and it still makes me grin like an idiot. I will keep this bike as long as I can keep it running!
Con_brio Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2016 - rode the Uly back to work. 40 years of riding and it still makes me grin like an idiot. I will keep this bike as long as I can keep it running!
I had an XB12s but have never ridden a Uly. I currently have a Aprilia ETV1000 Caponord and I can say I like it better then the XB. I'd sure like to try a Uly so I can see how they compare.
"ABS is actually an incredibly good teaching tool. Using ABS equipped motorcycles, I am able to take novice riders to braking proficiency levels that it takes most riders many years (if ever) to reach". Well stated Mark.
The unfortunate fact of the matter is that many riders (new and old) do not understand even the basics of how there bikes work and what is needed to ride well and safe. And why anyone would make a comparison between a car and a bike is beyond me.
If you want these rider aids I have no problems with that. I have never felt the need for them nor do I wish for the extra expense and complication they add to a bike. I am no Luddite either.
As far as "is anything as good as a Uly" goes? Well that depends on what you want but I can assure you that you cannot buy anything for the same money as long as you understand what is needed with this bike.
technology is good. drum brakes well adjusted on the 48 FL are nothing when compared to modern brakes. i must admit i have nothing with rider aids and kinda freaked when i heard the new speed triple has it all. i thot it was the true naked bike(technology is good but i can't stand the look of the weird lights.. i like the big and round especially 2 of them) sorry forgot i'm on the buell forum.
