| Author | Message | ||
     Smoothrod |
The clutch pull on my wifes XB9S is really hard. I see in the manual were it talks about adjusting the cable. Will this help the pull or is it just for if the clutch is slipping? | ||
| Kccyclone |
Lonnie, the 03 clutch pull is a little stout...The newer ones have the easy pull thingy you can get from daves....the cable adjustment won't make the lever easier to pull.. Larry | ||
| Dana P. |
What you can do though is lube your cables really good. That will relieve it some. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Smooth, I think you can just get the new 2006 clutch spring and run the new special oil that helps the clutch grip. IMHO the new clutch is may lower effort than my '03 XB. Probably one of the powertrain experts would be able to tell you for sure. There is another option that is a device that mounts to the clutch lever and helps as well. I think this is sold by Hillbilly-Motors, and maybe Al at American Sport Bike. Both of these solutions combined I would think would make the clutch near effortless. | ||
| Smoothrod |
Thanks fellas! | ||
| Jon_s |
I installed a Muller Power Clutch on my 05 XB12 that I picked up from Al. It's even less of an effort than the 06 clutch. Had it on for some 11,000 miles, won't be going back. Best $160 I've spent. | ||
| Metalstorm |
Al sells the Muller power clutch at American Sport Bike. It replaces the stock ball & ramp mechanism. It "claims" a 40% reduced effort. I havn't come across any bikes that had it equipped but I know a few here have bought it and have given it high praise. He also has a hydraulic clutch conversion kit. The Muller power clutch is probably all one needs unless you were changing the bars & changing the routing of the clutch cable. Then I could see a huge advantage of having a hydraulic clutch. Otherwise I don't think it's worth the $$ when you can simply make your left hand stronger  I myself am interested in the Muller power clutch. *sighs* I allow myself only one goodie for my bike every summer & it's a bloody hair tearing event trying to figure out just which one to go for when all our sponsors keep coming out with cooler & better toys for our bikes all the time.  | ||
| Dana P. |
Imonabuss is correct!!! You can run the 06 clutch spring and yes you have to run the 06 fluid designed for the 06's. I'm planning on it. | ||
| Rageonthedl |
you dont "have" to use the Formula +, H-D says that you can still use the SYN3 with it so i dont think any other fluid will make that big of a difference. | ||
| Bake |
Have her ride the bike in my profile and she will think hers is a piece of cake!  | ||
| Old_man |
Try moving the clutch lever inward a little toward tne center of the bar. It should offer her hand a little more leverage. | ||
| Al_lighton |
Go with a Muller Power clutch and the hydraulic clutch kit. You have to feel it to believe it. Every person that comes into the shop and feels the clutch on the shop XB9S with that combination is amazed. The Muller is good for approximately 20% reduction (my gut feel), and the hydraulic clutch kit removes all the cable friction. I have the hydraulic clutch kit on my 06 Uly as well, which has the new Buell spring. It is very nice, but it is not as light as the XB9S clutch with the Muller installed. See http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F7889589&rnd=5480 723&rrc=N&affl=&cip=69.160.135.44&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=9154&cat=&catstr= and http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F7889589&rnd=2569 462&rrc=N&affl=&cip=69.160.135.44&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=16077&cat=&catstr=HOME | ||
| Kdan |
She needs to work out. Give her something to squeeze repeatedly. | ||
| Grlryder |
I purchased the Muller Clutch back at Christmas and the install date is this Saturday. Can't wait!! Will be sure to post an update on this thread. Now if I can just get rid of this 24 inches of snow | ||
| Cataract2 |
For the cost I would probably spend the extra money and get the hydraulic clutch over the Muller. | ||
| Al_lighton |
"For the cost I would probably spend the extra money and get the hydraulic clutch over the Muller." If I had to buy just one or the other, I probably would agree with you. I am totally digging the Hydraulic clutch conversion on the two shop bikes. However, it is important to note that the hydraulic clutch doesn't substantially reduce the pull compared to a similarly equipped bike with a brand new lubed cable. The Muller definitely does reduce the force. The advantages of the hydraulic clutch setup are: 1) How it feels when you put it on is how it feels 5000 miles later..friction doesn't increase. So while it may not reduce the clutch force day 1, it definitely decreases the force that will be required on a cabled clutch later. 2) It does have adjustable lever position. It isn't as easily adjusted on the fly as the CRG levers, but it is definitely easier than the rotating knob thingamajig on the stock brake lever. 3)It has excellent "feel". Hard to describe this one, but it just feels right to me. 4)Completely unaffected by handlebar position. I should note that we're currently out of stock on the XB hydraulic kits. We discovered a while back that the XB and XL primary covers have different lengths between the ball-ramp arm and the entrance to the primary case. The XB requires a longer rod from the slave to the arm. We just got the new slave cylinders in and have upgraded all the first customers slave cylinders, and have a bunch more on the way. Should have a small quantity in within a couple weeks. Al | ||
| Old_man |
Lonnie, before you spend all that money, lube the cable well and move the clutch lever in on the bars about 1/2 in. It made a BIG difference on my bike. Try it. It will cost nothing. | ||
| Peanut_man |
Noob question here, but how do you lube the cable? Thanks, I'd been trying to figure the correct way to do so. | ||
| Old_man |
The power clutch works by having a longer lever for the clutch dis-engagement, giving more leverage but shortening the distance of dis-engagement or engagement proportionate to the mechanical advantage gained. So clutch adjustment is critical, but it seems to function well. By gripping the clutch lever further out on the lever you gain more leverage but the distance the clutch dis-engages remains the same. By moving the clutch lever inboard you end up gripping further out on the lever, giving you more advantage, and you don't lose any distance at the clutch itself. | ||
| Old_man |
Peanut man, I Used to loosen the adjustment in the middle of the cable and then remove the cable from the lever. I made a funnel that I taped securely to the end of the cable hooked it high and filled it with good synthetic lube, and let it drain into the cable till empty. You can buy aerosol cable lube with an attachment that securely fastens to the cable and shoot it in. | ||
| Jon_s |
Actually, the Muller unit does not have an appreciably longer lever. The mechanical advantage seems to be obtained by using balls of a different diameter and ramps with a different shape. I expected there to be a trade-off; more travel less effort. That isn't the case at all. The engagement/disengagement point seems to be identical with the stock setup. The reduced effort elicits a lot of favorable comments from my Duck riding friends (Ducati clutch hydraulics are pitiful). The only disadvantage, if you could call it that, is that the clutch effort doesn't jive with the character of the bike... | ||
| Metalstorm |
On the subject of the hydraulic clutch. Just out of curiosity, would the cityX handguard still work with it? From the photo I would think not but I can't really tell. (Message edited by metalstorm on February 14, 2006) | ||
| Al_lighton |
I did a bunch of measurements on the stock and Muller ball ramp mechanisms. The arm is longer by about 12% on the Muller. But the ball ramps and ball diameters are completely different. One can always trade force for displacement, thats just basic leverage principles at work. On first glance, I thought that the thing couldn't possibly work, that it could only make the forces lower by changing the leverage ratio, resulting in less clutch disengagement. But there is just a little bit more to it with the Muller than meets the eye. There are some other optimizations that have occurred that work together to make for an easier clutch disengagement. For instance, it MAY take advantage of biomechanical principles by not having a linear disengagement. If they make it so that the force is lighter at the beginning, where you're using your weaker finger tip muscles, and then harder at the end of travel, where your using your finger muscles closer to your hand, the overall net effect is a clutch pull that feels lighter. I don't know why it works, but it definitely does. It would take some adapting to make the handguards work with the hydraulic clutch...I need to work on that. Al | ||
| Old_man |
Al, you have described well how it works. A big part of how it works is the longer arm, which requires less force. But in order to have the same clutch dis-engagement the mechanism must be made to accelerate the motion as it is turned, which, as you say, would take even greater force than the standard mechanism as the lever nears the grip. The hand has more power as it reaches this position so the effect is to make the clutch easier to use overall. But the amount of power to disengage the clutch, if it is to be totally dis-engaged would be the same. You don't get something for nothing. | ||
| Phantom5oh |
Sounds to me that it works in a similar fashion to a compound bow in reverse. Would that be an accurate representation? | ||
| Hobanbrothers |
Werner Muller & Gerhard gave us one last year and has worked without fail and for the entire season. It certainly does reduce effort and I would have to agree with AL by about 20-25%. | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
i have the "free spirits soft clutch" from TROJAN and have not yet put it on my xb12r. is this basically the same as the muller set up? does anyone have a pic of it installed on there bike? ill be putting it on this weekend. looks simple enough. 20-25% reduced effort seems good to me for the price of this item | ||
| Old_man |
The free spirits is simply an arm extension it uses the standard mechanism on your bike. The effect is to lessen the effort but shortens the distance that the clutch can dis-engage. The clutch cable moves only a given distance and with the longer arm you are not turning the mechanism as much. Put it on and adjust it as specified, making sure the clutch is fully engaged with enough free play. If the clutch disengages enough it will work fine. Let us all know how it works out. | ||
| Kevinfromwebb |
I don't claim to know how it works but I put on the CRG levers and a Muller unit and it made a big difference. I had the levers on for a while first and with my smaller hands they helped, comfort wise and leverage too. I then put the Muller on and it really made a difference. I had to get the cable adjusted just right but it really helped and I would recommend them both. I lube my cable occasionally, I"ve got some of the liquid cable lube with the needle end. If I don't take the cable loose from the lever I've found you can lean the bike way over and get some lube in the cable that way, from the lever end that is... Kevin | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
i just finished installing the "free spirit" unit and although i can't take it for a test ride yet (there is a foot of snow still on the ground). it feels much easier to pull, and it seems to be dis-engaging just fine after re-adjusting the cable. if the snow ever melts i'll give it a good testing. has anyone else used this gizmo before? | ||
| Jens |
Hi, we tested the last week succesful for Magura the Hymec hydraulic clutch solution on the XB. Will come to the shops the next 2-3 month as a complete ready filled and bleeded kit with pump (mastercylinder), lever, line and slavecylinder. Easy to mount, like changing the clutchcable, whitout draining the oil or removing the primary cover. All the solutions changing the rampangle have less travelway on the clutch. From 1,9mm stock to 1,7mm with the aftermarket solutions. Remember school: always force x way. That means less force = less way. 25% less force makes 25% less way but the clutch is not operating proper under 1,7mm, so these bikes run with minimum freeplay. But the Buell can deal with that if you dont ride it hard. For me the 2006 OEM rampsystem is a big step. The Hymec will be a payable alternative to our slavecylinder we use on the customprojects with the radial masters. Jens www.hillbilly-motors.com | ||
| Al_lighton |
One of our customers and local BRAG/HOG leader, Nelson Petrey, bought a Muller power clutch and made some force measurements and shared them with me. Here is his words: "I installed the Mueller Power Clutch I got from you on Barb’s 2003 XB9S. I tested the pressure required to operate the stock and Mueller actuator at the clutch lever. The test was made using a strain gauge bathroom scale with 3/8th plates on the top and bottom to avoid single pressure point inputs to the scale. The tests were repeated and results were consistent. See below: Stock: Initial pull = 6 lbs Mid-pull high = 14 lbs End pull = 11 lbs Muller: Initial pull = 6 lbs Mid-pull high = 8 lbs End pull = 7 lbs Reduction at peak pull pressure is 6 lbs or 43%. Installation was quick and easy." FYI | ||
| Al_lighton |
The Magura Hydraulic clutch that Jens just mentioned is the same setup that we've been selling for a little while. I worked with Magura to develop it and iron out the bugs. Racing Motor in Italy was selling a similar home brewed solution from Magura components, but there were issues. The master didn't use the electrical switch, the thing leaked tranny fluid badly at the primary case interface, and it cost over twice what it should have. We had Magura install a secondary seal that solved the leak issue, and had them make the kit with an electrical switch on the master cylinder that works without having to do anything other than push the contacts out of the connector block at the clutch lever with a jewelers screwdriver. With those bugs worked out, it is a very nice setup. Jens, you may want to reconsider selling it pre-bled. We sell it dry but complete with the bleed kit. You need to separate the line from the master to run the line through the hole in the top triple clamp, so you'll have to break the seal on the hydraulic setup and bleed it anyway. Also, many folks will want to trim the line to the length that makes sense on their bike, and that's easier when it's dry. Bleeding the system is much easier than bleeding brakes, because you can manipulate the system at both ends to push the bubble. I have detailed instructions on how to do it with our kit, and customers haven't had any issues bleeding it. Al | ||
| Grlryder |
I bought the Muller Clutch around Christmas and just recently had it installed. I am VERY pleased with the results. It is indeed about a 40% difference (if not more) and while it may not sound like much, my wrist definately notices the improvement. Well worth the $$  |
