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Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 09:08 am: | 
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"No matter who picks to dance with Erik, they had best be able to let him lead. A meeting of the minds is a big plus but the bottom line is can the new owner muster the guts to sit in the back seat while Erik makes the bike work? "
what?
Im sorry, but EB was at the lead of EBR and it just didnt work out. This ISNT the HD/Buell story where HD execs had final say near the end, this was EBs company.
Even with Hero owning 49%, do you think they were keeping EB from making what he wanted? |
Mog
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 06:02 pm: |
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........do you think they were keeping EB from making what he wanted?
Yep. Not paying the 20 million due for tech consulting goes a long way to stopping Erik, of course that is just 'here say'.
These are all big guys and responsible for their actions. I am sure that Erik will tell you he is no saint. That said, when you put your HERO logo out there and say "We at HERO back you 100% of our 49% share.... then renege, in part or in whole, the result is devastating (especially without warning).
Erik picked his dance partner and got his feet knocked out from under him (and all of EBR).
The real gutsy move was Erik took the risk (as did his workers) and HERO got cold feet and flushed him down the toilet in a similar way as HD's Wandell. Difference is that Erik new HD management was not onboard all the way... HERO management said I am an engineer and maker of motorcycles just like you Erik. Thing is, HERO befriended him, got in trouble, they broke, stabbed him monetarily and ran when the going got tough. That is the definition of a Thuggee in India.
Yep. When you bring Erik on board and tie the knot..... be prepared to go deep in the wallet, all the way, all the time until you drop. The motorcycle kitchen is a hell-hole, if they can't stand American heat, get out of the American kitchen.
At some point I and you will probably know most of the real story.
So far, Erik's only bad move was picking a winner, that was actually a pretentious loser, HERO's Manjal. |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Saturday, June 06, 2015 - 07:01 pm: |
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Nope.
Erik was in charge of EBR. You can say that Hero stopped him, but that was at the very end (hopefully not the end, but is there really hope?).
No one stopped EB from making the RX and SX and whatever else was in the works. No corporate bigwig was saying, "No, cant be larger than xxxxCCs..." or something to that effect.
He ran the show and we see what company he built.
Youre right, he went to dance twice and got hurt both times. Shame. Think he'll learn by the third go round? |
Stevel
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 03:18 pm: |
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The biggest mistake EB made was not selling enough bikes........end of story. He burned though his cash and at the end of the cash, the revenue from sales simply was not there. Hero's actions may have been the typical straw on the camel's back, but it was the poor sales that killed EBR. Consider the amount of investment it must have taken to set up a factory. No way could that be recouped in a single years sales.
On the HD thing, I have had a Road King since '96. It's a great bike, not stock. I took it apart the day I picked it up new. I ordered the bike and waited almost 6 mos. to get it. During that time I bought all the trick parts and had them waiting when the King arrived. It makes 73 HP on the dyno and hasn't been disassembled since. It still runs strong, goes 100 mph all day, but not more. I have no trouble riding that 8 hrs. a day for 2 weeks. It is a very easy bike to ride slow. There is something to be said about a 3000 rpm cruiser. When I get on my Buells, I have to get off every hour and after 1 day, I'm used up. Sure the Buell is fast and exciting, but it is a different kind of bike. Say what you want about HD, but they know how to stay alive. Erik should have paid closer attention to the lessons HD should have taught him. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 04:40 pm: |
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The biggest mistake EB made was not selling enough bikes........end of story. He burned though his cash and at the end of the cash, the revenue from sales simply was not there. Hero's actions may have been the typical straw on the camel's back, but it was the poor sales that killed EBR. Consider the amount of investment it must have taken to set up a factory. No way could that be recouped in a single years sales.
It seems pretty clear from what's been intimated on this forum (by people who should know) that the business plan for EBR was to support the motorcycle business with revenue generated by engineering services until the bike sales reached a point where they would support the company. The cash ran out because (apparently) Hero failed to pay a bill for engineering services when it was due.
Obviously a wider range of models including less expensive ones would be necessary to generate the kind of sales that could support a motorcycle company. Erik was quoted in this month's Cycle World saying more mainstream, less expensive motorcycles were in the pipeline and would have been ready for production in ~1.5 years.
It does indeed appear that EBR could have done more to sell 1190RX's and SX's. There are a lot of fairly serious riders out there who STILL have no idea that EBR was in business and producing new models post-Buell. I kept expecting to see a massive marketing campaign and it never arrived. |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 07:06 pm: |
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They had a marketing campaign - it was WSBK. |
Mog
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 09:35 pm: |
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At 74 years old, Carroll Shelby built his first 'ground up' car.
Erik was a lot younger when he built his RW750 two stroke racer at the age of 34 (a forty year difference).
In 1966 Carroll started ripping the snot out of Ferrari... because Henry Ford II had it up to his neck with Enzo Ferrari canceling a Ford-Ferrari deal. Mr Ford spent huge, unwarranted sums of money to beat Ferrari... in fact so badly beaten was the Italian marque that the Ford GT40 was banned from a fourth showdown. I see Daytona/Eslick as the parallel to Shelby's GT40 adventure.
So the point is, the funder must want it as bad as the designer. HERO, not and HOG, not. That is to what I refer as going to the drop dead end of the money bucket. So far the backers 'talk' but the only 'walk' is out the door.
Erik is not the problem.... people with money want an investment rather than absolutely crushing their imagined foe. The former suiters for Buell and EBR do not have the intestinal fortitude to go the distance, they will never bask in true success, money yes but not success.
Erik will be back and for those that truly appreciate his work and ethic will deem him a man possessed. He has at least another 30 years.... he is just warming up the tires. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2015 - 11:57 pm: |
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 Mog |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 06:21 am: |
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I dont think investors care so much about 'crushing their imagined foe' as they do a ROI.
And you lost me on the Daytona/Eslick thing
Yes, I realize that Eslick performed really well that one year (well, a BUELL performed really well that one year), and then they moved on to Daytona Super Bike or whatever the class was called for liter bikes. Danny wasnt banned because it was crushing the competition that badly or anything like that. |
Mog
| | Posted on Monday, June 08, 2015 - 11:27 am: |
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"I dont think investors care so much about 'crushing their imagined foe' as they do a ROI."
You made my point for me, thanks. Some are erroneously called 'investors', they are not, they are like.... let us say... Matt, Josh, Danny, etc. except they have money to put out and also a drive to win... even if they have to put it into the wall, get up, start from mid pack and finish first place. Second place is first of the losers and the harder the trip the more they put their protege's to shame. It is nearly a blood sport.
That type of investor IS out there, Erik has to find one or a group or a company. Look at what Petronas forked out to Foggy, whew!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronas_FP1
That type of 'investor' is out there and no less driven than Erik. For the 'high flyers' the challenge is worth the risk. |
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