| Author | Message | ||
     Purpony |
Sitting here at work waiting for a ride home. Headed home tonight and 2 mins after leaving work my check engine light comes on. I looked down at my oil pressure gauge and its ZERO.... Got the bike back to work and rolled it inside. Cracked open an oil line and there was oil but started it and nothing was pumping. Dropped the pump and it seems fine. I just put a new drive gear in over the winter and all looks fine up inside as well..... ideas? Going to trailer it home tomorrow and investigate further. I did have the pump apart over the winter to powdercoat it. Bringing that home tonight to pull it apart. | ||
| Malott442 |
Sounds like you're looking at the right first place. While I've got you here, and I know it's crap timing, but could you check that bag of pinch clamps for the proper size for the oil pump? I've got to get some for two projects | ||
| Ceejay |
Does oil come out of the bag to the supply side of the pump, and are the new lines the same ID as the stockers? I've seen gear pumps not pull, before but it was usually caused by insufficient size of the line so what was going out was more than could come in due to primarily gravity feed. Hope that helps... | ||
| Purpony |
just took the pump apart and looks ok. When assembled the drive shaft on the pump moves in and out about 1/8" or so but i believe thats normal. If you turn the pump very slowly over and over, once in a while is slightly binds. Spin in slightly faster and no binding. Oil lines are all the same size as stock. When i removed the feed line from the bag to the pump the oil flowed freely from the tank. Looked up inside and the new drive gear looks good. I removed output line from the pump to the motor and turned it over and no oil  ... wtf? | ||
| Malott442 |
I was looking for the specific size so I could order a bag. The axial movement is restricted by a snap ring. If your woodruff key sheared, it would produce your result. Only two other things I could imagine would be clogged line internally or relief spring failure. Both unlikely though, | ||
| Reepicheep |
I guess if the woodruff key on the pinion gear sheared, that could also do it. | ||
| Buellistic |
Check the DRIVE GEAR, oil pump and replace it with PN 26357-02B if you have not already done so and a new T-KEY PN 11219 ... | ||
| Purpony |
drive gear and key are brand new 300 miles ago. everything looks good up inside. took the pump apart and looks ok. Im going to put it back together tonight and start it. As you all know the oil pressure is funny on these bikes anyways and i just put the gauge on. When my check engine light came on and i saw zero oil pressure with an hr ride home, i decided since i was mins from work it would be better to be stranded there. I dont recall how high my RPMs were so maybe my gauge just wasnt reading fully??? No engine noise, no clanking. Ill investigate more tonight. Going to trailer it home anyhow since ill have 2 rides here at work and anyways. | ||
| Dannybuell |
the gauge or light has a sensor? | ||
| Oldog |
you rode the bike last week after finishing up the work that you did with out issue? this afternoon pump exhibits slight bind but when in the engine no oil, free oil flow from bag no oil flow from pump check the driving gear in the cam chest new or not.. if you had just finished the build I would ask if you primed the pump and if the discharge was clear but the engine has been run and was other wise ok the pump not being turned makes the best sense to me. or the rotor is not turning because the pump is damaged, the tight spot could be the shaft trying & failing to turn the pump. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Any chance you pulled the engine oil through the seal into the primary? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
In the order you described, you took the pump apart. You removed the feed from the bag to the pump - oil flowed freely. Then you said "I removed output line from the pump to the motor and turned it over and no oil" Did you prime the pump when you assembled everything? Would you have oil at 'cranking only' if you hadn't? How long did you crank for? What pressures were you seeing? This is interesting.....http://www.v-twinforum.com/forums/sportster-buell- engine-mods/153996-no-oil-top-end.html Rocket in England | ||
| Ceejay |
the gear in the pump, not the driving gear, but the one actually in the pump get flipped over? I don't remember if it matters or not - been a while since I had one apart. Still puzzling as to why it started now... | ||
| Buellistic |
No body has asked what are the increments of oil pressure on the oil gauge to max. oil pressure ??? What are they, like 5, 10, 15 ,20 25, 30, ie; to max. ??? | ||
| Purpony |
put the pump back together, put the pump in, filled the oil, and started.... light went out, oil pressures back.... hummmm. Im trailering it home today from work to have another look at it. Oil gauge is 0-60 by 10's. | ||
| Kalali |
I'm stating the obvious and might have read it wrong but powdercoating the pump blades/gyrators will change/reduce the clearances of the moving parts inside the assembly. | ||
| Ceejay |
I'm pretty sure he's smart enough not to coat the interior of said pump. It might be something as simple as an alignment issue. | ||
| Oldog |
It might be something as simple as an alignment issue. Funny you should mention that CJ, some of the early s1 grenade episodes where the steel gears shredded were thought to have an alignment issue,, I would open up that cam chest and check the driving gear, If the Key sheared as described above it can catch for short intervals Were I in your place I would do it... YMMV Good luck } | ||
| Oldog |
one last thought, is the suction hose rated for vacuum? is it possible that the hose is collapsing on you? | ||
| Buellistic |
"i" use automatic transmission type hose for my oil lines ... | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I suppose the suction hose could have had a kink in it. Then he took out the pump. And reinstalled it without a kink? Just a theory. | ||
| Ceejay |
I was talking about the actual gear rotor along with the pump body and bottom plate, but I could certainly see how a steel gear set could cause problems if not aligned properly. When I was playing around with mine, it seemed that small alignment changes were possible between the pump body and the bottom plate so I ended up aligning everything by spinning it around to a place where it seemed to not cause any deflection/movement issues and then tightened it up. any news purpony? | ||
| Purpony |
thanks all.. all good info. No news yet. Was a busy weekend and i havnt been feeling great so havnt had time to look at it yet. To be safe im going to pull the cam cover and make sure the key is intact first. | ||
| Purpony |
Had some time to look at the bike. Went through the oil lines and made sure there was nothing blocked. For the heck of it i put a new pressure sensor on and changed the filter. Started the bike and no check engine light... had oil pressure. Ran for about a min. Bike sounds fine, no weird noises or anything... look down at the gauge and I watch it go to zero again... but no light came on. Im thinking my oil pressure gauge is junk...... Ended up pulling the return line again from the tank and stuck it in a bottle. Started the bike again and its just slightly spitting oil ( almost nothing) . I would think that it should be a somewhat of a stream instead of what im seeing.... am I correct or wrong? thanks | ||
| Oldog |
Marc some thing is not right for sure, the return pump after the engine oil flow and return reaches a steady state I would expect a largely consistent oil flow, but reaching the steady state may take several minutes, you have steady pressure from the feed side of the pump, put a test gauge on it ( feed side ) and watch it, I have a hard time with the idea that the line set that you made is an issue, were you able to open the cam chest and check the gear and nut ? Where is your gauge plumbed in? (Message edited by oldog on September 26, 2014) | ||
| Purpony |
My gauge is plumbed into the same port as the pressure switch with a T fitting. I have a question... how much play should there be in the oil pump shaft? Mine seems to have a lot. If there is to much play, could the shaft "lift" causing the pump gear to "skip"? is this even possible? I have not opened the cam cover yet. I plan to do this tomorrow. Not looking forward to pulling everything apart but i need to dig into this deeper. Once i get this off, i should have the answer to my above question. on another note, anyone interested in buying a tuber? Rode an SX today  | ||
| Purpony |
getting ready to start digging into this issue further and planning on pulling the rockers and cam cover. Removing the timing cover and saw what i thought was oil. Figuring maybe the new seal I put it was leaking. Went to wipe it off and its hardened. looking further its the epoxy potting material for the sensor in there that has melted and started to run. Doing an internet search, this appears to have happened to quite a few harley owners. I dont ever remember seeing this issue around the buell forums. Is this something that others have had happen? What causes this to start running? Also read, that this could be a cause of a check engine light which i am getting (but not all the time)... and maybe if my oil gauge is bad, maybe i dont have an oil pressure problem.... like i said though, the return line to the tank, its more of a trickle of oil then a stream like i would think it would be..... The bike runs fine and the top end sounds fine... (Message edited by purpony on September 27, 2014) | ||
| Purpony |
ok- i think i found my problem for my oil issue... right now i think its my oil pump as i first thought. I pulled it out a while ago but just happened to go back to have another look. I keep asking about the amount of play in and out of the shaft. I just noticed that the shaft was out all the way and had no play... i spun it and could here the inside turning and then cluck. The shaft popped back in. Pulled the cover off and just as i thought... when the shaft is all the way out, the bottom portion of the pump does not spin!!!! Then the shaft is pushed in ever so slightly or all the way it, its spins no issue. I had the pump out thursday, put it in, started it and my pressure gauge read pressure... about a min into it, the gauge went to zero.... im thining as the bike ran the shaft moves upward, and it dis-engaged the lower portion of the pump causing my pressure to go to zero. | ||
| Purpony |
well i found the issue.... F#*K ME is all i have to say. completely my fault and i could have cooked me freaking motor over this. took the retaining ring off the shaft and just pulled the shaft out. Looking at my parts manual i knew instantly what was wrong. There is a thrust washer that goes on first before the retaining ring. This takes up some of the slop in the shaft. As i suspected, the shaft was probably riding up and not making full contact on the lower section of the pump. I cant believe that i missed putting this in. Going back together now...... | ||
| Oldog |
I am very glad you found that, So I am clear the oil pump was disassembled and when reassembled you missed a thrust washer which would allow the pump shaft to move up out of the bottom (return) section of the pump. again GLAD that you found it, at some point prior it must have emptied the oil tank and started drawing air ... | ||
| Purpony |
Exactly | ||
| Ceejay |
Cool! Good catch! |
