| Author | Message | ||
     Drhutch81 |
I have a 2009 XB12X with 9k miles on it. I've had it for 3k miles now and it has been trouble free. The last 150 miles the bike has started acting funny, usually while accelerating. It will die momentarily (which lurches me forward if the RPM's are over 3k), then the engine restarts on it's own. It might not even shut off, it's hard to tell because it happens so fast. It feels like if you were to all of the sudden let go of the throttle and the RPM's drop. The Check engine light goes on for about 3 seconds after this before going back to normal. It seems to happen about every 10-20 miles now. Air temp here has been in the 70's while I've been riding so heat shouldn't be an issue. I did just do an oil change right before this started happening... not sure if that might have something to do with it? I switched from 10W40 to Mobile 1 20w50. Initially I thought the gas tank vent hose was clogged so I opened the gas tank cap and the bike still did it's funny stall on the freeway. I also thought maybe I had a bad batch of gas so I let the tank go empty and refilled with gas from a reputable station (92 octane of course) and that didn't solve it.I'm really anxious to figure this out because I have a 2,000 mile trip coming up on Friday. I appreciate any help. | ||
| Drhutch81 |
Also it is starting and idling fine. I checked the battery cables, they're tight. | ||
| Afsoc_commando |
I had the same issue on my 2009 XT What I found was when at high speed on the freeway during the summer it did exactly as yours is doing. What I did to fix it was relocate the ECU. I found the seat pan on the low seat seems to sag more when hot on the highway and it pushed down on the connectors. Relocate the ECU in front of the battery and see if your issues don't disappear like mine did! Good Luck! | ||
| Arry |
Several people, including myself, have reported a similar problem. My '07 has been doing this for over a year, but not as frequently as yours. Mine has done this at various RPMs, and various road temperature conditions. I haven't heard a definitive cause or fix yet. | ||
| Arry |
Afsoc may be right. I have a support to keep the seat off the ECM, but this still could be the source of the problem.? I don't think your oil change had anything to do with it. | ||
| Froggy |
What has happened is exactly what happens when the ECM dies (usually broken ECM connector or some wiring issue interrupting power). The ECM craps out, which causes the fuel pump and injectors to stop, so your bike begins hard engine braking. After a moment, the broken connection is restored, CEL comes on meaning the ECM is alive and doing its bootup sequence, it fires up the fuel pump and injectors again and within a moment you are back to normal operation. Perfect time to upgrade to the EBR Race ECM. (Message edited by Froggy on August 26, 2014) | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Is it possible the ignition coil is crapping out when hot? My ironhead did that. Measured fine when off of the bike but when running for any amount of time, it would cut out and stop. Of course, were talking points vs computer here but I thought I would throw that out. Cheap/easy to swap. Trade with a friend and go for a ride. see if it follows. 2009 ECU is going to be hard to find used so you should poke at more easy things first. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cracked ECU could do this, bad ground under the flyscreen, internally broken wire in the wire bundle going around the steering head, and failing cam position sensor can all do this. If it is a cam position sensor, it will probably keep getting worse, and you will get bad backfires when the motor comes back online. When it is failing frequently, it is easy to diagnose with an oscilloscope. If it is the ECM, you might be able to trigger the behavior by flexing the ECM connectors up or down while the bike idles. If it is the wire bundle around the steering head, you might be able to reproduce it by moving the bars around, or by dissecting that bundle and running each wire through your fingers (to detect internally broken conductor). | ||
| Reepicheep |
The ECU can also likely be repaired, if it cracked the solder joints between the connector and the board. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Nate, thanks for that. I am chasing a problem with a 78 KX-400, where when it gets hot it starts running poorly, then comes back on as it cools. I've been chasing carb phantoms for quite a while (leaking fuel valve, garbage materializing from nowhere, new ethanol based life forms, wrong and moving float heights, etc). But I think the carbs are reasonably well dialed in and I may be hunting my next ghost now in the coil or in the points. | ||
| Drhutch81 |
I was thinking the ECM may be the issue as well. I notice that the underside on my seat has a scuff mark where is rubs the stopper that the ECM is connected to. It doesn't hit the connectors or the actual ECM, but there is definitely pressure there. I was thinking of switching to an 06 low seat anyways since I have long legs. If anybody has a lead on a grey one (my bike is blue), let me know. I would think this would solve the ECM pressure issue. | ||
| Afsoc_commando |
The low seat will NOT fix the issue.... Move the ECU and run the piss out of it... I would bet I am right and the bike will run fine. I didn't crack my ECU or the connectors, but the pressure on them was enough to cause the bike to do exactly as yours is doing on the freeway... | ||
| Reepicheep |
The pressure on the connectors is more of a problem than pressure on the ECM. The ECM is mostly a solid potted frame / board / cover. I imagine it could take a lot of rubbing and never have a problem. Its bumping the connectors, which are only anchored to the ECU PCB via solder joints (a metal prone to cracking, and when it cracks, you now have an intermittent electrical connection). | ||
| Drhutch81 |
Upon closer inspection of the ECU, the female portion of the left connector is cracked. Guess I'll be doing that ECU relocation mod. I'll let everyone know if it fixes the issue. Thanks again for the help. (Message edited by drhutch81 on August 26, 2014) | ||
| Drhutch81 |
If my ECM is already cracked and causing the stalling, does that mean the damage is already done and I need a new one? I did a seat lift mod using some pvc pipe to raise my seat a few inches and take pressure off the ECM (found it on this forum), but the problem still persists. Is my only option now to get a new EBR ECM? I'm super annoyed because I had a week long riding trip in 3 days and it looks like I'll be in the car now! | ||
| Rayycc1 |
they say the ecms can be resoldered when they crack....i would look into that....but really ...relocating the ecm might just be enough to make it run right again...for a while anyways | ||
| Froggy |
Drhutch81, I sent you a PM, be sure to respond to it (It goes to your Yahoo email, might get stuck in the spam folder) | ||
| Reepicheep |
If the ECM relocation "solved" the problem, I'd repair or replace. It doesn't look like an awful job to re-flow the solder joints. Some dissection of case and potting, some soldering, and some re-potting. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
If reflowing it, remember to use good old fashioned 60/40. The ROHS no-lead stuff is mediocre compared to the real deal with lead. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Whatever flux that new stuff uses fries my throat as well... | ||
| Phoun49 |
I just started having the same problems with my 2007 Uly. Mine would randomly cut out and the engine light comes on. Usually I can get it started back up after a few minutes, but last night I killed the battery trying to start it and ended up getting a tow. Also another symptom of mine is the fuel pump will stay on sometimes while the bike is running. I'm thinking it could be a bad ground point. Anybody have any insight or advice to add? My ECM has been relocated to the point in front of the battery and I didn't see any cracks on it. (Message edited by phoun49 on September 14, 2014) | ||
| Xbimmer |
The "cracks" aren't visible from the outside. Flexing of the connectors cracks the soldered connections to the pcb within. Fixed my original 2006 ECM a while back and opened up my failing 2007 yesterday, there are at least 4 joints failing here:  Getting to this point just takes some care and patience.      Good soldering iron and some real silver solder and you're good to go. | ||
| Phoun49 |
Thanks for the pics, Xbimmer. I'll take mine apart and take a look at it. I bought the bike used and the ECM relocation had already been done so I'm hoping it isn't the ECM. I'll try cleaning off the ground points first (there are three right? One under the fly screen and two under the seat?) and see if that solves anything. If not, then I guess it's time to break out my soldering iron. | ||
| Jstav2012 |
Great pics! They clearly demonstrate the issue. I've been using some silver solder paste that I found at altex. http://www.altex.com/Wahl-Solder-IT-Silver-Bearing -Solder-7459-P143942.aspx It is easier for me to use than solder wire. | ||
| Xbimmer |
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| Electraglider_1997 |
Phoun49, <also> Maybe you meant that the fuel pump doesn't shut off while the key in "ON" but engine not running. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you don't have to "reboot" the bike to get it to start again (turn ignition off and back on) it isn't the bank angle sensor. It could be the cam position sensor, particularly if it backfires when it comes back on line, or if the tach shows RPM's going crazy when it's in the stutter state. Could be a shorting wire in the harness also (more common than CPS failure probably). | ||
| Phoun49 |
Well after closer inspection, it was indeed bad solder points in my ECM. When I wiggled all the connections, the bike finally lost power after maybe 5-10 minutes of wiggling and was unpredictable which was why I didn't catch it the first time. I'm guessing it's temperature dependent. The previous owner who had the ECM relocation done had it so that the angle of the bracket slightly bent the ECM when bolted down. It took me some time to figure that out. I resoldered it last night and rode about 40 trouble-free miles today. Thanks for all the help and advice everyone!  Now I just have to get my right hand warmer working and I'll be completely satisfied. (Message edited by phoun49 on October 03, 2014) (Message edited by phoun49 on October 03, 2014) |
