| Author | Message | ||
     Ditto |
I have a 2008 Ulysses with Silver Lustre Ceramic pipes, Drummer SS and EBR ECM. Battery checked out at 195 cranking amps with 85% charge. Wires all look good. ECM had a crack.I sealed it up and relocated. Seatwas rubbing on the gray connector. I confirmed the ECM was good by swapping with my stock. Hard start was still there, cold and hot. Put back in my EBR ECM. I have been through allot of posts regarding this topic and am running out of checks. I am starting to think the engine temp. sensor is bad or is haywire. Suggestions? | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
have you reset the TPS? | ||
| Ditto |
Yes, I did do a TPS reset. At least three times. But, admittedly have not ridden it to calibrate the ECM. | ||
| Woodnbow |
I would ride it far enough to calibrate and then see what happens. Have you looked at the plugs recently? Also, when you say hard start, what exactly do you mean? Does it spin slowly and then fire or is it cranking an inordinately long time? | ||
| Ditto |
It will crank to the point of stalling the starter at times. Cold and hot. Thought it was the battery at first, but had that load tested. Tested good, but is most likely the stock at a 2008. See previous post. Checked grounds and plugs. All look good. Being that the air/fuel and timing is done via ECM from the engine temp. sensor, I leaning towards engine temp. sensor. No codes given from engine light testing. | ||
| Turbo6bar |
Does it start if you spray starting fluid in intake? That would help isolate the source: ignition or fuel. About one month ago, my 08 XT refused to start, and would only start and run if I twisted the throttle open. I reset the TPS numerous times to no avail. Finally, on the advice of others here, i started the bike and forced myself to ride the sputtering beast. 20 minutes later, my bike was almost back to normal. Jurgen | ||
| Ditto |
Copy. TPS zero'd I haven't recalibrated the ECM yet. I am gonna do tomorrow and maybe the checking of grounds (I sanded and dielectric greased as I checked) may fix it. Dunno. Wish me luck, I'm goin' in! | ||
| Uly_man |
If the bike cranks over more than twice then it is not the battery. If you get the "clicking" sound do not crank it anymore and recharge the battery. One thing to remember is that these bikes will not crank over all that many times before the battery starts to goes flat. If the bike cranks but does not fire then it is an ignition and/ or fueling issue. If it was an engine control interlock issue then you should get a code but these bikes are weird on the electrics so I would not trust this to happen. Remove the front plug, Earth it and crank the engine to see if you get a spark. If you do but it looks weak run a rat tail file or emery cloth between the electrode and post, to clean them up, and try again. If the spark is better IE Bigger and the plug is black replace both as they have become fouled. If all that is ok then timing and fueling are next. I doubt it would be, in this case, the air and engine temp sensors but could be the crank position sensor. Fueling could be low pressure but again, but never can be sure, I doubt it. Running the bike, after a TPS reset, is about engine fueling for conditions, via the AFV, and nothing to do with hard starting. A hard TPS reset does not reset the AFV and is why you need to ride the bike to allow the AVF to re-learn the new conditions. You need TunerPro or ECM-SPY to zero it or, as said, ride the bike a bit. This sort of thing is not uncommon even on, as I have learned, other things. A classic case in point is the 1992 BMW 850I (M70 engine) and that is a 5L V12 near super car. | ||
| Ditto |
Do the engine temperature sensors or O2 sensors have a range in either time sensitivity or resistance? OEM I am asking. I have the ceramic coat headers and I am wondering if this is affecting the sensitivity or range on the hard starting issue I am having. The reason I am asking is, the hard starting issue did not start until the ceramic coat headers were installed. All other sensors have tested out in range on multimeter as of yet. I mean, sometimes I get a "crunch" sound. Almost sounds like a backfire on ignition. | ||
| Uly_man |
A load test is not the way to test an AGM battery. It is done with a special tester that shows a volt drop over a specific time frame. The battery should hold about 12.9v disconnected for 24hrs plus. Also check you bike is charging as it should IE All the time and at the right rate. As said it depends on what you mean by "hard starting". Due to the nature of the engine they will never "spin up" like a Jap four for example. It should start within a couple of turns though. Hot it should be better and seem faster. Ceramic coating is a electrical insulator as well as a heat insulator. The O2 sensor Earths to the pipe and then through the engine. It should not have an effect from cold as it only starts to work at around 160C and even then it should not be a problem. Engine and air temp sensors should be ok but it could be the CPS. Sounds like it could be bad plugs and would be the first thing to look at as a bad/ weak spark will cause bad starting, hot or cold, on anything. I do not know if a very tight primary chain would have an effect or a problem with the clutch as I do not know the engine very well. Maybe someone who does could comment on this. | ||
| Griffmeister |
The Uly comes stock with an AGM battery. According to the electric diagnostic manual for 08 you can load test this battery, out of the bike that is. The battery should be fully charged, should read 12.8 VDC or above, then allowed to stand for at least one hour. The battery is then checked at 50% of CCA for 15 seconds. The stock battery is rated for 200 CCA so the test is done at 100 amps. After 15 seconds voltage should be 9.6 VDC or above. Remove load before 20 seconds has elapsed. Of course if the engine's cranking okay, you probably don't have to worry about the load test. I would think if you suspect a problem related to the ceramic coating that you could temporarily run a ground wire to the O2 sensor as a test. Also, a few others have already suggested plugs, they don't have to "look" bad to be bad. Wouldn't hurt to throw a new one in the front (easy) cylinder just to check. Good luck. | ||
| Ditto |
So far, everything has checked out. I haven't ran a ground to the O2 sensor to see if I have a bad ground there. I am running iridium plugs and they were changed out a month ago. The ones that came out looked good, however the gap was a little bigger as anticipated. It threw a TPS code and an IAT code. I am suspecting because I did the disconnect hot while on the battery. The CKP sensor, I did remove and found metal flakes. Cleaned and reinstalled. O-ring did not seat, so I have a new one on order as it is leaking. Did a direct ground to threw bolts on starter and replaced battery. Previously cleaned and dielectric greased all grounds and positive on battery connection. Significant difference on start with a 220CCA battery. Maybe a combo on the grounds and bad battery with CKP metal flakes on sensor. Gonna ride again tomorrow. (Message edited by Ditto on September 03, 2014) | ||
| Fotoguzzi |
Dielectric grease is a non-conductive, silicone-based grease that's designed to seal out moisture and prevent corrosion on electrical connectors. dielectric grease also prevents corrosion when applied directly to metal connectors. Though it works well for this purpose, it can sometimes cause a connection to stop working if not all of the grease is pushed out of the way between the points of contact inside the connector. | ||
| Uly_man |
"According to the electric diagnostic manual for 08 you can load test this battery, etc..." from HD. This is the way you would do it with an "old type", but not a Silver Cadmium type, wet plate battery. And even then there is a danger of warping the plates. I do not trust HD numbers or there specs. "After 15 seconds voltage should be 9.6 VDC or above". You can crank the bike as much as you like but if the volts drop below 11.1v the ECM will shut down and the bike will NOT START. Electronic ignition, with carbs which you can bump start, is one thing and will work but not a full EFI system if the system volts are lower than 11.1v for the Uly. Even my old 06 HD AGM battery holds a 13v standing charge, off bike, for weeks on end so whats that all about? | ||
| Griffmeister |
"This is the way you would do it with an "old type", but not a Silver Cadmium type, wet plate battery." All you said before was AGM. The original battery in the Uly is a lead/acid AGM, at least for 08, so it will function similar to a vented battery. I agree, if you replaced your battery with a Silver/Cad type then you'd better follow mfr specs. "You can crank the bike as much as you like but if the volts drop below 11.1v the ECM will shut down and the bike will NOT START." The test is only done out of the bike and is for checking battery condition. Nobody in their right mind would crank an engine for 15 seconds. All they're saying is if the battery passes this test, then it is still able to function at it's rated capacity. Of course it will need a recharge. |
