| Author | Message | ||
     Xdigitalx |
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/statistically-speakin g-death-daytona-061600047--nascar.html | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Averaging a death every couple years since 1959 when it opened. | ||
| M2typhoon |
Everyone has a choice. You don't have to do anything you don't want to. Not having the choice to do so is more of a problem. Take away the TT and there will be some huge issues. Leave them alone and let them make the decision for themselves. Its not your choice to make. If don't agree with it then don't watch it and stay home on your couch watching wheel of fortune eating your TV dinner. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
It's not like they are children being offered candy heroin drugs, but I hear it is just as addictive. Not everyone can be an Astronaut with 1,000's of pounds of thrust beneath them. | ||
| Skntpig |
Flying there now. Will arrive tomorrow morning. Any tips for a first time spectator? | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Charge your camera battery and phone (droid?) use the Youtube app on your phone to upload video snippets of the day to you tube site when you retire at your hotel.... (make a new YouTube ID just for that) take pics of the burger joints too... or whatever they serve there,... um... maybe some servers too??  Or wait till you get back and compile everything then, just upload a few now...... no pressure...  | ||
| Tpoppa |
Every rider going into that race knows and accepts the risks...and still races. There are still (thankfully) parts of the world where lawyers haven't tricked the masses into believing that safety is the most important thing in the world. America was created by risk takers that left their homelands, tamed a frontier, and fought a revolution. Now we are a culture that has been sissified by bicycle helmets, warning labels, and seat belts. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be allowed to race, I'm simply stating that I'm not comfortable supporting it or watching it because I think the risk is too high and it has crossed the line into a blood sport. I won't judge anyone else for watching and enjoying it either. I wish I could without being bothered, I love the passion and skill involved. It's a call we all have to make on our own. Consider the extreme case to understand my position. Would you go attend a "sporting event" where volunteers from all over the world entered, were blindfolded, picked up a .357 with one round loaded, spun the chamber, and put the gun to their head and pulled the trigger? If it doesn't go off, they get $1,000,000 in prize money. 1 in 6 people would die, 5 in 6 people would be instant millionaires. Desperate people would do this. Many people would watch it (thereby funding it). Some truly evil people would organize it, run it, and whoop and cheer as it unfolded. I would want no part of it. On the other side of the spectrum is WSBK / AMA Pro racing. People will die, but many many precautions are taken, and as bikes got faster tracks got retired for safer alternatives. I have no problem watching that, though I expect there will be another fatality at some point in the next decade. Maybe I'm a hippocrate, but in these moral grey areas, I have to go with my conscious, and I'm just not comfortable with the TT or the "big air" / "Freestyle" motocross. (Message edited by reepicheep on May 29, 2014) | ||
| Tpoppa |
UFC, boxing, base jumping, sky diving, bull fighting, hang gliding, drag racing, road course racing, acrobatics, joining the military, becoming a cop/firefighter, riding a motorcycle, etc, etc, etc... ...all of these activities require special skill and training. They all involve risk. The exact same risk that turns many away is the reason that others are drawn. Everyone is different. | ||
| Trojan |
Consider the extreme case to understand my position. Would you go attend a "sporting event" where volunteers from all over the world entered, were blindfolded, picked up a .357 with one round loaded, spun the chamber, and put the gun to their head and pulled the trigger? If it doesn't go off, they get $1,000,000 in prize money. 1 in 6 people would die, 5 in 6 people would be instant millionaires. What a ridiculous analogy, and an insult to all the organisers, rider coaches, medics, marshalls and everyone else involved in safety at the TT. There is a lot of training, practice and skill that goes into racing at the TT. It is not just a case of turning up. 'pulling the trigger and hoping to luck' that you survive. The people taking part are certainly not 'desperate' but are all experienced racers who put in a lot of work and money to be able to race at the TT. In recent years more and more 'short circuit' racers have been attracted to the event simply because it offers one of the last real challenges for a motorcycle racer to compete in. Also, Do you really think that you can compare the TT to anything relating to guns? Firearms manufacturers develop and make their products with the full knowledge that they are specifically designed to kill and maim people, and are constantly developing their 'products' so that they are even more lethal. Not by accident but deliberately and by design. Lastly, do you think that anyone earns millions from riding in the TT? Newcomers will pay a lot fo money to ride there and only the very top guys come away making any money from racing on the roads. Take a visit to Morecambe and see where John McGuiness lives! He is the most succesful current TT rider and certainly does not live in a huge mansion in a tax haven like some of the MotoGP/WSb 'stars'. (Message edited by trojan on May 30, 2014) | ||
| Reepicheep |
"Consider the extreme case" is not making an analogy. I also don't get the hoplophobia, but that's for a different thread. I know your citizenry is disarmed, and I got some good deals on some Weblys and Enfields as a result. Your country, your business, if you need them back again we can come to an arrangement like we did the last time we had to rearm your nation. But here in the US, in spite of hollywood productions showing otherwise, the vast majority of guns and rounds are used for casual or organized sporting events (practical pistol, IPSC, Bullseye Shooting, Cowboy Action shooting, small bore rifle, etc). One can pretend these responsible and organized events don't exist, but that just makes one look foolish to all the people that participate in these sports. I have probably been witness to close to a million rounds fired from thousands of different firearms. I've never once been witness to anyone using a firearm against another individual. UFC and Boxing are interesting data points on the scale. What is the ratio of deaths to participants in these sports? Last I looked, it was surprisingly low, certainly compared to stats for the TT. Though if you really did factor in long term head injury factors, maybe they are something horrible. I personally (again, I am sharing my own conscious, not telling anyone else what they should believe) would lump base jumping and whatever they call the base jumping with flight suits thing in with the TT. I don't blame people that do it, I don't judge people who do it, but I wouldn't be comfortable enabling it by giving attention, money, or equipment for people to do it. I'd lump military, police, and firefighters in a different category... These are high risks in desperate circumstances type things. The risk level is very high, but it is in the context of rescue or defense of someone else very much in harms way. So you are risking your life to keep somebody else from dying. It's an interesting philosophical discussion, I'm not trying to offend anyone, just processing out loud. The TT race is so interesting to me because personally, it is right on that ragged edge and I can't really decide if it has crossed a line or not. I fully get both sides of the argument. | ||
| Reepicheep |
(Also, I'm in the risk management business, so I wrestle with all sorts of different ways of managing and measuring risk, and different ways of making decisions with those measurements. It's what I do all day long on most days. So I'm really just geeking out here). | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I have probably been witness to close to a million rounds fired from thousands of different firearms. I've never once been witness to anyone using a firearm against another individual. Perhaps if the sport shooting event were more comparable to the TT course, like say paintballing with bullets, then your point would be valid. As it is not, you might as well be talking about tiddlywinks competitions. Rocket in England | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"I'd lump military, police, and firefighters in a different category... These are high risks in desperate circumstances type things. The risk level is very high, but it is in the context of rescue or defense of someone else very much in harms way. So you are risking your life to keep somebody else from dying. " I'd say a majority of police deaths are NOT from protecting someone else, but from random shootings by people they are pulling over etc The TT is very dangerous, but its not a certain death sort of thing, MANY survive the race for years I do agree that sports such as boxing have long-term effects that should be factored into the stats Also, think of all of the other deadly things we, as humans, do/condone on a daily basis - how many die from smoking? Car wrecks? Planes? etc etc etc for all the folks against the TT - why even come into the thread? To say the same crap over and over again? | ||
| Trojan |
Your country, your business, if you need them back again we can come to an arrangement like we did the last time we had to rearm your nation I remember ,it took us from 1945 to 2006 to pay you back the FULL amount that we borrowed in order to fight WWII  I think we could probably do without favours such as that again thanks. | ||
| Crusty |
I remember ,it took us from 1945 to 2006 to pay you back the FULL amount that we borrowed in order to fight WWII ; ) I think we could probably do without favours such as that again thanks. Yeah; the Third Reich wouldn't have charged you nearly as much, would they? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Now, now, can't we all just get along (and talk about freaking racing!)? Anybody seen any results for tonight's practice? I can't get the official IOM TT site to come up. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Awesome footage from today's qualifying, and it's only been on telly ten minutes!! I would enjoy to see Guy Martin finally winning one, if not more. Third fastest in qually, behind Anstey and McGuinness - could be Martin's year. Rocket in England | ||
| Tpoppa |
I think we could probably do without favours such as that again thanks. OK, but you might be speaking in German instead of the Queen's. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Update from Splitlath Redmond's FB page:
Go EBR! | ||
| Johnbranx1 |
Wow, MICHAEL Dunlop doing a 131.5 on the BMW everyone says will take time to setup for the "roads". ..congratulations to Mark Miller and EBR! A group of us are starting to plan to attend the TT in 2015..looking forward to supporting the EBR teams. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The BMW was well ragged watching from Ansteys Honda. It's got some real poke though. It's looking too close to call. McGuinness is supporting a healing arm injury but put in second fastest qualy. Martin is on the pace too. The rising stars or well quick too. The EBR is down on the 600 Supersport top speeds though. Norton is struggling with lack of laps and development time (sound familiar?) Rocket in England | ||
| Johnbranx1 |
Where can you find the top speeds listed on line? I see the lap average however, not top speed. The top guys have to be well over 200. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Lap times and top speed, all laps, 2014 qualifying. Superbike http://www.iomtt.com/~/media/Files/2014/Downloads/ Practice-Results/Fri30/fast%20laps%20all%20session s%20Superbike.ashx Superstock http://www.iomtt.com/~/media/Files/2014/Downloads/ Practice-Results/Fri30/Superstock%20all%20laps.ash x Supersport http://www.iomtt.com/~/media/Files/2014/Downloads/ Practice-Results/Fri30/Fast%20laps%20all%20session s%20Supersport.ashx Rocket in England | ||
| Johnbranx1 |
Thanks for the link. Although this is average speed for the lap and not Top Speed. Top speed is measured at a couple of places a lap and would be close to 200MPH for the fastest guys. I was curious as to the EBR top speed vs the competition over a lap. This is from an internet article from 2006 In an indication of just how crazy the Isle of Man TT really is, New Zealander Bruce Anstey set a new top speed record when he was clocked at 206mph on the mile-long Sulby Straight during practice for the Superbike-class race. Anstey was aboard a race-modified Suzuki GSX-R1000. | ||
| Davegess |
Blake, now I see what your numbers mean you are including the Manx GP in your numbers not just the TT. These are two separate events run many months apart. Still a very dangerous place and i still have no problem with the event taking place, people promoting it or people following it. Perhaps it is a generational thing. I am old enough to have followed auto racing when it really was dangerous and people died every weekend in Indy cars. I do think these "extreme" sports are becoming more popular (I assume your not a fan of Red Bull?) as our lives become more stable and safer. One day to day live for most people involves very little risk and few chances to get a shot of adrenaline. Since we are evolved from a dangerous life many of use need a little to make life interesting. Some get it yelling at the sports on the TV, other jump out of airplanes. | ||
| Elvis |
Sobering thought: For every 30,000 miles you ride on a motorcycle and you've got a roughly 1% chance of dying. Riding a motorcycle is a dangerous thing, but worth the risk for those who choose to do it. Motorcycle racing is a dangerous thing, but worth the risk for those who choose to do it. Racing at IOM is more dangerous than racing at most venues, but worth the risk for those who choose to do it. I support motorcycle riding and motorcycle racing. The death-rate at is IOM is disturbing, but if I support riding and support racing, I don't think it would be consistent to say I'll support people participating in a dangerous activity . . . but only to a point. If I'm in, I'm in all the way, so I support the TT along with other riding and racing. | ||
| Snowscum |
Mark Miller (EBR 1190RS), DNF Brandon Cretu (EBR 1190RS), DNF ???? | ||
| Johnbranx1 |
Was hoping Miller and Cretu would have finished to give us some ray of light in a learning year. Two more races this week for them , let's hope they can finish without "technical issues" to cause them not to finish. | ||
| Blake |
Dave, Indy car drivers died every week??? Elvis, >>> The death-rate at IOM is disturbing, but if I support riding and support racing, I don't think it would be consistent to say I'll support people participating in a dangerous activity . . . but only to a point. Really? So if half the field ended up dead every year, you'd still support the events at IOM? Let's be honest. At some point, the line is crossed. Where that line is drawn obviously can vary from person to person, but there will surely be a line drawn at some point. How about we support motorcycle racing that doesn't include stone walls defining the racing line? I'm a libertarian-minded person. Race as you like. Just don't expect me to support it when it becomes as much gambling with lives as it is racing. |
