| Author | Message | ||
     Mackja |
I rode the F4 and the F3 800, while I prefer the F3 over the F4 by a mile, they both have fueling issues, and the F4 is proof that the "Rack" is alive and well in Europe. The F3 is some what comfortable, but lacks power, and has some quirks I don't care for. MV has made major strides and I am glad they are improving, but lets face it, they have made their fair share of pigs over the years, they never have made the best bikes! | ||
| Classax |
I rode the F4 and the F3 800, while I prefer the F3 over the F4 by a mile, they both have fueling issues, and the F4 is proof that the "Rack" is alive and well in Europe. The F3 is some what comfortable, but lacks power, and has some quirks I don't care for. MV has made major strides and I am glad they are improving, but lets face it, they have made their fair share of pigs over the years, they never have made the best bikes!  I found the light throttle, grabby clutch, hard to read instrument cluster and ergos of the F3 800 to be my major sticking points. The F4 was more of the best and worst. The finish quality bike to bike was also a little variable to put it in politely. But MV does make some beautiful LOOKING bikes. The super bike effort is coming along. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Just posted to Team Hero/EBR FB page:
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| Tpoppa |
I don't see this version of the V2 being competitive in WSBK. If they have plans on winning races at this level, they're going to need 2 more cylinders, or something like the short stroke, 1199 mill (which isn't particularly well suited for street duty). | ||
| Hootowl |
You'd think they'd spell his name correctly in their posts. | ||
| Classax |
If they have plans on winning races at this level, they're going to need 2 more cylinders, or something like the short stroke, 1199 mill (which isn't particularly well suited for street duty). With more than a few of the top I4 superbikes having software that lets them behave like V2 in the corners, I'd say that's a pretty fair observation. I noticed the EVO bikes still seemed to be having tire issues towards the ends of both races. I wonder if the I4s will retain their advantage when the EVO spec precludes them from such techno trickery? | ||
| Firstbuell |
Goeff's now only 5 seconds off Rea at test, so now I'm smiling is that so wrong? 1 step [second] at a time..... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Maybe Jeff is the Italian spelling of Geoff.  1.5 second gain is good! Never quit, never give up. | ||
| Rsh |
Unfortunately being 5 seconds a lap off the pace at the end of 19 laps like the Imola race would leave you 1'35 behind the leader. Knocking another 3 seconds off a lap would put EBR mid pack. The team needs to find something. | ||
| Hughlysses |
OK, somewhat OT but this was posted to Larry Pegram's FB page:  with the caption: "Was feeling down today in Italy so went to see the doctor @ValeYellow46 for some flat track therapy" Larry's in Italy too? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
That's gonna be the highlight of EBR's publicity this season. Whether it's enough for EBR and Hero's sponsors remains to be seen  Rocket in England | ||
| Crusty |
Larry is a pretty fast Flat Tracker in his own right. He won Three Nationals; the Hagerstown 1/2 Mile, and the Fresno Mile come to mind, but I can't remember the third win. He left the dirt and became a full time Roadracer back in the '90s. Was he teaching at Rossi's school? I have trouble with the idea that he went to Italy to freshen up his Dirt Track skills. | ||
| Guy_glover |
Nothings good enough for some people -Ever If your not happy with any gains why try to bring down the people who are If the Guys are running within the 107% required to race no matter what anyone says they ARE qualified to run. Can't wait to see the bikes get sorted out, cause you can bet that that day will come. | ||
| Classax |
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| M2typhoon |
I'm looking at the bright side. There was a post race test at Imola and Geoff picked up a full 1/2 a second. This still keeps them 5 seconds back but it shows that Geoff and Aaron are having a huge learning curve. I also think that Geoff and Aaron were chosen to do the development rather than an established SBK rider is the communication level and the fact they both give good feed back. We all know the motor is an issue but not much any of us are gonna change that by bitching about it every day on this thread so get a grip and come to terms with reality. Your point has been heard now move on. | ||
| Hughlysses |
There was a post race test at Imola and Geoff picked up over one and a half seconds. Fixed. This might be a bigger difference than it appears at first glance. If this speed gain can carry over to subsequent race weekends, I'm thinking makes Geoff (and hopefully Aaron) fast enough so that they can compete in super pole, right? If so, that gives them significantly more track time and another chance to tweak the bikes at every race to pick up more speed. | ||
| Classax |
Super pole was the next stated goal before they started having engine failures. If you take a look at their times both May and Yates shave large chunks(most racers are looking for tenths not seconds) of time each session. 1.5 seconds for May puts him back to debut form. If the test yields 1.5 sec gain for them both, that's a very good sign. In the past May normally gets around a track an average of 2 seconds faster than Yates. Finish race distances, then super pole, then world domination! I think that's the plan. Ok maybe not that last bit. lol | ||
| Trojan |
There was a post race test at Imola and Geoff picked up over one and a half seconds. Actually there is a bit of 'artistic licence' in that quote. if you look at ALL of the times over the weekend you'll see that the actual improvement in time is around 0.4 seconds over the time put in by May in FP3 (The best time of the race weekend by either rider). That could be due to track familiararity (May had less time over the weekend on track remember), cooler weather, less traffic or just a good nights sleep. Here are ALL of the times and speeds from FP1 to Monday test: Monday test 21. May (EBR) 1'52.433 Fp1 26 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'55.288 6.959 253,1 27 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'56.339 8.010 244,3 Fp2 26 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'54.669 6.522 261,3 28 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'56.225 8.078 247,2 Fp3 26 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'52.763 5.252 258,7 27 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'52.831 5.320 255,0 Fp4 26 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'53.351 5.739 256,8 27 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'53.713 6.101 254,3 w/up 26 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'52.928 5.470 253,1 28 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 1'53.424 5.966 251,3 Race 1 RET 27 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 7 12 Laps 1'52.954 253,7 Race 2 18 26 99 G. MAY USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 18 1 Lap 1'53.238 254,3 RET 27 20 A. YATES USA Team Hero EBR EBR 1190 RX 8 11 Laps 1'53.073 248,9 What wasn't said in the press release was exactly what (or if any) new parts were on the bike during the test. Or did they just wheel out the same bike that raced on Sunday? As a comparison, MV arrived at the test on Monday morning with a new engine, swingarm and electronics, and immediately went 1.4 secnds faster than they had in any session all weekend. Compare and contrast the difference: Monday Test 13. Corti (MV Agusta) 1'48.851. Fp1 20 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 1'51.644 271,3 Fp2 19 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 1'51.034 271,3 Fp3 21 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 1'50.741 273,5 Fp4 17 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 1'50.293 271,3 Warm up 16 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 1'50.257 267,9 Race 1 18 21 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 19 1'50.407 Race 2 RET 21 71 C. CORTI ITA MV Agusta RC-Yakhnich M. MV Agusta F4 RR 6 13 Laps 1'50.936 267,9 Of course I know that MV is an Italian team so logistics are easier to get parts to the test, although EBR are also an Italian team and I would hope that the team have access to equipment and parts from their base while testing? Official test days are few and far between and teams need to make sure they use them to test new parts effectively. This isn't a criticism of EBR because we don't know what was tested or why Yates wasn't riding. You just need to be sure of facts before thinking things have improved drastically. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
.......There are continous rumours that the BRAKING performance is the greatest problem on the EBR ....... | ||
| Court |
>>>>.......There are continous rumours that the BRAKING performance is the greatest problem on the EBR ....... Interesting. Can you cite the source of these rumors? | ||
| Trojan |
At the moment it is obvious that speed is the main concern. 20kmh is a lot to make up at a relatively small twisty track like Imola (which should suit the EBR better than most WSB tracks). I think it will take a major electronics & engine update to address that first  | ||
| Hughlysses |
It's hard to believe braking would be the problem at this point. May made the comment that the tracks they've ridden so far are faster and freer-flowing compared to US tracks which would imply braking performance is less of an issue. The EBR bikes are apparently not going as fast as they are in AMA Superbike and by all indications the brakes are working fine there. It is however easy to imagine the casual observer, unaware of the history of the ZTL design, seeing EBR's performance and naturally jumping to the conclusion: "Look at the weird brakes- obviously that's the problem." | ||
| Trojan |
I have doubts about the ultimate braking performance comapred to the other leading runners. However at this point they aren't going fast enough for that to be the major problem and we can't compare directly. I'm one of those sad people that examines lap charts,sector times, etc from every session and it is clear that the moment that there is no particular place they are losing time over another. At the moment they are simply slower everywhere, with the sections of track having staights being the most noticeable. What is also noticeable is that they are not making up time anywhere either, so any perceived handling advantage may just be not there at this level of competition (and to be honest I would doubt that there would be much diffeence betwen any of the top bikes in handling terms). Donington is a similar track to Imola with lots of corners and stop start parts. Whether they will show an improvement there is debatable but then we really don't know if theyare making any significant changes. Judging by the test results I would have to say that they probably aren't going to make big changes yet. | ||
| Classax |
Anything is possible, but I find it hard to believe brakes are the issue when they aren't going fast enough to press them. The Sbks are trapping slower on faster tracks than the AMA bike are shorter tracks. As Mat pointed out when you look at the sector times they are slower everywhere. I think we will know they have the power issues solved when we see sector times are slower in the technical part of the the track but similar or at least markedly faster in the straights which would be indicative of a rider on a strong bike, coming to grips with a new track. What we have now indicates a troubled machine with new riders aboard. Slower in the Slow parts of the track where the course limits speed for example a 60mph hair pin quickly followed by a 120 mph turn. Top speed doesn't come into play as times to a fair degree are limited by the radius of the corners and available grip and to a lesser extent degree of acceleration. (Anyone notice they tend to start fairly well and then get left on the straights. Acceleration doesn't seem to be as big a problem as overall topend.) When learning a track most people are slower in the corners than the straights. When we see them trapping another 15 or 20% faster at the AMA bike levels on the straights then we will be on to something. Hope they solve it soon. Donnington would be a good place to come out swinging. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Actually there is a bit of 'artistic licence' in that quote. if you look at ALL of the times over the weekend you'll see that the actual improvement in time is around 0.4 seconds over the time put in by May in FP3" got to make it look like youre gaining ground | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting discussion in the AMA racing thread about the electronics packages. In AMA Superbike, Cory West is apparently running the stock 1190RX electronics package, while Larry Pegram is running the WSBK package. Cory has been MUCH faster than Larry this year. IIRC, WSBK mandates the use of a spec electronics package, so EBR has to figure out how to make that one work. | ||
| M2typhoon |
The electronics still doesn't have much to do with grenading 3 motors in two races and I suspect the valve train has something to do with it much like how Danny over rev'd one time entering a corner. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The one Danny over revved didn't "blow up". It killed the valve guide seals, the smoke from the exhaust took him out of the race. The engine still ran. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Harmonics can do horrible things to valve trains. It isn't always the outright RPM that kills. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
EBR had also blown motors in Macau GP..... http://www.caferacerxxx.com/macaugp/ |
