| Author | Message | ||
     Jaggerts |
Sup guys? I have an 02 thunderbolt with 14.000 mi on her. She just started to spit and sputter today. The only thing Iv done is take the air box off and put a K&N filter on it and changed the oil.. I run standard fuel. 91octaine. It seems like its starving for fuel to me. I checked the plugs and there all black. It starts fine and idles fine. Only when I start to drive does it start doing that. Plus the engine light is coming on. Its Sunday so no one is open to get new plugs. Please help cuz I don't want to pay the Harley shop to look at it. There just going to rape me.. Also I forgot to mention that it also is backfiring randomly.. | ||
| General_ulysses |
I'm no Buell expert, but if you think it's starving for fuel, it may be a problem with the fuel pump, blocked fuel strainer/filter or a fuel pressure regulator problem. Partially plugged injectors can also be a possibility. I've read here about all of the above causing similar problems on X1's around the same year as your bike. Otherwise, it may be an electrical issue, the engine light coming on suggests that might be a culprit as well. First thing I'd do is try get a diagnostic code (if that year has them) and check to see if power is being interrupted to the fuel pump. Good luck... | ||
| General_ulysses |
I just realized you said your plugs are all black. Obviously you should swap them out with good plugs and go from there. | ||
| Bikerrides |
Replace your ignition switch or by-pass it (there's a thread on here about how to do it) to see if that might be the problem. Pretty sure mine was less than $50 from American Sport Bike and solved a problem I chased for months and spent hundreds on parts and very little HD labor on; I did almost all the diagnosing and wrenching to fix it. Probably speent $500 before replacing the switch; would've cost double to triple that if HD had done it all! The ignition switch has been known to fail or short intermittently setting off trouble codes, etc. The switch is a possibility and among the cheapest of the fixes. I wish I had started w/that first! When the switch finally gave up completely and left me stranded, I put in a new one and it hasn't missed a beat since! Good luck! | ||
| Jaggerts |
Ok, well I forgot to mention that a year ago my ignition switch did go out and replced it with a marine toggle switch.. Because it would be water proof. So I took it apart and hard wired it and it seemed to fix the prob. I wont know for sure till I take it for a ride but just running in the garage for awhile and revving it up seemed to fix the prob. I will keep ya posted.. Thanks so much fellas!! I love this fourm!!! | ||
| Ratbuell |
....don't start it if you aren't going to ride it for 30 minutes....just let it sit. | ||
| Jaggerts |
Ratbuell, why? Does the computer need to reset or something? | ||
| Kalali |
Not sure why folks are suggesting an ignition switch or fuel pump but my suggestion is to first and foremost find out the CEL code. And in the meantime, check your intake air temp sensor since that appears to be in the general area where you touched last. Keep us posted. | ||
| Jaggerts |
Well I'm gonna put the stock air box back together and stock again. I just got new plugs from Harley so I'll do that tomorrow. I work second shift so my time is limited.. What are these codes you guys talk about? Will a bick throw cods just like a car computer? I mean it makes sense but I guess I just never figured.. Where do I go to get the cods run if in fact it has one? Harley? I really love this bike but it seems to be like a needy child.. Constantly working on it all the time.. I just don't know if I'm bike savy enough to own a Buell.. I'm not gonna give up yet though.. | ||
| Hootowl |
I've never heard the words "high maintenance", "hard to work on" and "Buell" together in the same sentence. Well, except just now of course. Hang in there, you'll figure it out. | ||
| Jaggerts |
I say hard to work on cuz I don't know anything about bikes. I guess everything needs maintenance from time to time.. I'm just a tad frustrated right now.. I'm just hoping fresh plugs and a new ignition fixes my prob.. | ||
| Bikerrides |
Josh, I kinda felt the same way for a while after buying my S3T 2yrs ago, but now that I've got all the bugs worked out of it, I wouldn't trade it for anything! It was only ridden 6K miles in the previous 10 years, so when I put more than 10K on it the first year, it was like an old hot rod that had been sitting w/out being driven. Once sorted out, very satisfying and still much less expensive than a new bike. I'm so happy with mine now, that I'm considering buying a 95 S2 to go w/my S3. As far as the advice you will get, folks suggested the O2 sensor, head temp sensor (both replaced), intake air temp sensor, plugs, injectors, wire chaffing, and so on. All were legit things to consider, but no one mentioned the ignition switch, which it turned out to be in my case. Get ECMSpy and a cable and you can check/clear trouble codes, etc. much less expensive than having an HD tech do it! There's a way to do it w/out, but I opted for using a computer. Search reading trouble codes in old school Buell. You'll get more advice here than you need, including mine, but that's better than the alternative or having to pay HD! | ||
| Jolly |
I have 4 tubers, other guys here have more than that, from my experience once you work out the "bugs" they run great. there is just a list of things that need to be done to really make the motor/bike "bulletproof". I have two carb versions (95 S2 that is getting a 98 S3 carb engine and a 98 S1W) and 2 fuel injected versions (2002 S3T and a 99 X1. Ihave had some of the same issues others have had and fixed, and there are issues with these bikes I have never had. this is a GREAT bike to get you bike savvy though, so dig in, take it slow, listen to the experts here, buy the right tools, and fix the issues one at a time and you will be perfectly happy with your bike. buy a manual if you don't have one for sure. Get a copy of ECM spy and a cable..(I have it but oddly enough I have never had to use it...Ill be the rookie crying for help if I do though...  )...hmm it does make me think about doing some base line numbers while my 2 fuel injected bikes are running well so that if things go wonky I know what my baseline is.... anyway, these are great bikes to work on, and even better bikes to ride!!!, not that complicated, and everything can be done by ... you ...and the experts here! best advice... don't fix it right NOW...fix it RIGHT...now | ||
| Jaggerts |
ECM spy. Is it easy to use? | ||
| Akbuell |
Re Ratbuell's comment about running it for 30 mins - Routinely starting the bike and running it for a few minutes and shutting it off can cause problems. In no particular order : The battery may not recover all of the amps it used in staring the engine. Running at 2kRPM and above for 20-30mins allows the battery to fully charge. A short start/run/shut off means the ECU is in cold start mode, I.E. 'the choke is on'. This coats the plugs with carbon, which doesn't burn off unless the engine gets to full operating temp. The 'choke is on' means a rich mixture. With the engine not up to temp, the rings/piston/cyl do not get to proper clearances, meaning combustion byproducts, mainly water vapor and unburned fuel, get into the engine oil. And stay there, because: The oil doesn't get to temp, generally 250F and above. Those temps allow the fuel and water to 'boil off', and go out the crankcase breather. Finally, the same thing (absent the fuel) happens in the primary and transmission. Water condenses out, and doesn't boil off. More than one XB owner has posted about pulling the clutch cover and finding a big glob of what looks like Miracle Whip in the primary. It is a water/oil emulsion caused by the primary oil not getting to temp. The factory service manual is your friend. Hope this helps, Dave (Message edited by Akbuell on February 17, 2014) | ||
| Bikerrides |
ECMSpy is easy to use. I am a music teacher w/nothing more than just basic car maintenance as my mechanic background. I have done a better job of diagnosing and fixing my bike than a $95/hr HD tech thanks to the folks here and some patience! | ||
| Kalali |
To answer your earlier question, yes the FI bikes have an ECM with diagnostics capabilities, in principal similar to OBDII system in the cars. The plug and software are different. The answer to your problem lies in that CEL. We have folks here from your neck of the woods so see if you can find someone in the area to help you read that code. Or if you have a friendly contact in your local HD service department, it should take them 5 mins to read the code for you. | ||
| Buelljunkie |
Akbuell's info a few posts above about running for only few minutes is VERY good information. Info that I don't think the average rider knows. I have several riding buddies who do this over the winter months while their bike sits in an unheated garage waiting for spring. Better to let it sit in my opinion. For some reason, tho, they are resistant to this information.  | ||
| Hootowl |
Meh. I do it to the ones I don't ride very often. I let them run for 10 minutes or so. They're all on tenders, so I'm not worried about the batteries. I've personally never experienced the fouled plug issue reported by so many others. Just lucky I guess. | ||
| Jaggerts |
Ok so I just changed the plugs and took it for a 30 min ride. All seemed well! I'm gonna do a couple other things as well. How do I go about finding someone who lives in the same town as me? I'd like to find someone who has that cable to read the computer to see if its got any codes. I'm gonna get one on payday but it will take a couple days to get here.. You guys have been such a huge help.. If you guys have any further info in all ears. Lol!! I want to get this bad boy running like a champ.. | ||
| Hootowl |
Storm Front section, or maybe BRAN? | ||
| Essmjay |
re-post from twoseasons Get a jumper wire with mini-clips on both ends. Find the Diagnostic Trouble Code connector plug which should be located around the steering head, tucked in right above the lock. Pull the rubber boot off of it and rotate the connector lock to the 12 o'clock position (there are four pins in this connector) Jumper the two right side pins together when the ignition is off and the kill switch is off too. DO NOT START THE BIKE Get a pen and paper to write down the codes. The DTC codes sequence like this...initial three flashes, then pause, then DTC code first digit, then pause, then DTC code second digit. Each DTC code is two digits. Turn the ignition to the ON position. Be ready to write down the codes...now turn ON the kill switch. Do this a couple of times to make sure you have the DTC sequence correct and to make sure you have any codes that are stored in the ECM. Report back with the codes and we'll be able to better diagnose your problem(s). | ||
| Jolly |
I have not opened my ecm spy nor have I used my cable. if you would like to borrow them, burn a copy of the program to your computer to use, let me know and I will mail it to you. you will need to ensure I have the latest greatest software on the CD. let me know and I will see if I can find it, ive got a few projects gong on in the garage and space is a little..."awkward" but I think I can find it rather quickly. cover postage and you can borrow it. shoot me a PM. | ||
| Yo_barry |
On an S3T, the diag plug is under the seat in the cavity for the tool bag. On an X1 it's found at the front of the bike. FYI Barry Hollister, CA | ||
| Jaggerts |
I wondered what that plug in was. Good to know... | ||
| Essmjay |
You are right on the '02 location Barry. On the '99 it is by the steering head. Since he has an '02 it will be under the seat. Good catch on that. Shane | ||
| Mnscrounger |
I also have an 02 S3T. I've done the OBD check a couple times, Yo barry and Essmjay are correct, the connector will have four numbered contacts. I don't have the service manual in front of me, but if I remember correctly, the terminal numbers on the plug to jumper are 1 and 4. | ||
| Truedog |
Based on the issues I have had in the past with my 2001 S3T, I'd suggest replacing the head temp sensor. When that starts to go bad it will cause all sorts of erratic running problems. | ||
| Jaggerts |
Wow you guys are a huge help! I really appreciate all the great info.. I'm not planning on getting rid of this bike. I'll keep it forever since it seems to be a fairly hard to find bike. I just wish I could put some different bars on it. I'm not a big fan of the bar position. I gues I'm used to drag bars.. Oh well... | ||
| Kalali |
Let me know if you decide to replace the bars. I like those bars on my X1. |
