| Author | Message | ||
     Jaimec |
What happened? Yamaha and Honda offered (what was supposed to be) something as affordable, but more competitive as an alternative. Most teams opted for the Honda option, which provided a "turn key racer" right out of the box. They MAY be kicking themselves now. The Yamaha option was a full factory-spec engine for lease, and factory engineers to assist in their support, but the teams would have to provide their own chassis. As a concession to the NGM/Forward team, Yamaha is providing a partial chassis until the team can develop their own. I don't think anyone else took Yamaha up on their offer, and they MAY be all kicking themselves now. The NGM/Forward bike is therefore the closest thing to an "Open Class Yamaha" on the grid. It will not have the seamless transmission, but it has a factory spec engine, a Yamaha chassis, will run 24 liters of fuel, but must use the DORNA supplied software in its ECU. The only downside I see is that the Honda package will have up to 12 engines to use for the season. Unless something has changed, Yamaha has stated their Open Class bikes will get the same five engines their factory bikes will get. That MAY change, as the five engine limitation is NOT from DORNA, but from Yamaha themselves. If Yamaha suddenly decides they'd like to do some engine development, they'd have the NGM/Forward team to test for them, as their factory and satellite teams will not be able according to the rules. That being the case, Aleix and Colin may find themselves with a couple more engines in their alottment. I think Yamaha still values Colin's input for development purposes... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Thanks Jamie, although I'm still baffled as to how I've missed this. I don't even remember it being talked about here? Weird. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Changing the subject slightly......News haas emerged that the NTR Forward racing team that runs Colin Edwards and Aleix Espagaro have changed from FTR to kalex chassis for their Moto2 team. Nothing new there and nothing to write home about..except. The reason appears to be that FTR have refused to release the 2014 team chassis until Forwardd racing pay their outstanding bills from 2013. Forward have then bought used kalex chassis from another team (much to the annoyance of Kalex who have refused to support the team) and will race those at the next test. The team have made some bullsh*t press release about the situation but it looks like they have spent all their money on the Yamaha deal with very little left over to pay exisiting suppliers. How this affects the ongoing FTR/Yamaha deal is anyones guess right now, and it may transpire that FTR refuse to build the required Open class chassis for Forward that they were contracted to do. The plot thickens.... | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The whole point of CRT was to bring costs down. I assume this was carried over as the primary reason to go to the 'open class'? Dorna (Ezpeleta) are out of touch with racing, the fans, and how to make racing competitive. Dorna's efforts to keep costs down has lead to the worlds most prestigious motorcycle racing competitive to only four motorcycles. It's a ferkin joke and continues to be so. And I don't blame it on lack of money. I blame it on not enough money when it's plentiful should the series work as it should. Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
And every time Dorna introduces ANOTHER "cost cutting" rule, it costs the factories a FORTUNE to comply. That's the main reason we don't have a Suzuki on the grid this year... they couldn't keep up with all the damned rule changes. | ||
| Trojan |
Substitute the word 'DORNA' for Honda and you would be about right. Dorna asked the factories to come up with a method of lowering the top speed and lowering costs at the same time. The factories (led by the nose by Honda) cam eup with the ridiculous fuel limit idea becuase it helps them develop engines, and really has very little to do with cost saving at all. Dorna had to go along with what the majority of factoires at the time wanted unfortunately. Now the situation is slightly different with Ducati set to break ranks and run in the Open class. if that were to happen then Honda is in a much weaker position and may just have to carry it its threat to pull out of GP racing if it doesn't gget iots own way in future (which may actually be a good thing for the sport long term). If Suzuki come back and join Honda and Yamaha in the MSMA then DORNA look to be weakened again, so from the spectator pointr of view we should be hoping that Ducati go Open class and Suzuki don't return as a Factory team really. DORNA are actually doing a good job of forcing the factories into a corner where they either have to comply or leave the series. Soon er or later this will result in a showdown which Honda can only lose (hopefully). Once Dorna wrest full control of the rules from the Honda led factory coalition we may have a couple of lean years but the series will be better off for it long term. | ||
| Akbuell |
Taking a break from WSBK, the BBC reports Marquez broke a leg in a dirt bike training accident; expected 4wk recovery period. | ||
| Trojan |
I doubt a broken leg would slow him down, even if he has to race with the plaster on! | ||
| Crusty |
If Lorenzo could race with a broken collarbone, then seeing Marquez out there with a broken fibula shouldn't be a surprise. Will he be as fast with a broken leg as Lorenzo was with a broken collarbone? I remember watching Miguel Duhamel in 1999 with legs that had been mangled in a wreck at Loudon the previous year, win everything he entered at Daytona. This, in spite of having to walk with a cane, and he had to be helped on and off the bike. He became my hero that year. | ||
| Trojan |
Remeber Lorenzo raced with two broken feet and had to be lifted on and off the bike (as did Sheene back in the day). Marquezx will be 95% healed by the time of the first race and won't even need a pin or surgery, so it certainly won't bother him. | ||
| Jaimec |
After all the times he crashed last year and walked away, I didn't think the kid's bones were breakable!! | ||
| Trojan |
MotoGP Sepang test II day one times - conditions dry 1 BAUTISTA, Alvaro GO&FUN Honda Gresini 2:00.848 60 / 61 2:01.552 2 ESPARGARO, Aleix NGM Mobile Forward Racing 2:00.900 0.052 0.052 28 / 31 2:23.909 3 ESPARGARO, Pol Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:00.999 0.151 0.099 53 / 57 1:07.655 4 DOVIZIOSO, Andrea Ducati Team 2:01.029 0.181 0.030 46 / 47 1:10.834 5 LORENZO, Jorge Yamaha Factory Racing 2:01.158 0.310 0.129 54 / 56 1:17.047 6 PEDROSA, Dani Repsol Honda Team 2:01.160 0.312 0.002 46 / 47 1:07.617 7 ROSSI, Valentino Yamaha Factory Racing 2:01.349 0.501 0.189 28 / 65 1:08.731 8 BRADL, Stefan LCR Honda MotoGP 2:01.491 0.643 0.142 32 / 50 1:40.582 9 SMITH, Bradley Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:01.644 0.796 0.153 47 / 54 1:22.425 10 HAYDEN, Nicky Drive M7 Aspar 2:02.227 1.379 0.583 53 / 55 2:03.241 11 CRUTCHLOW, Cal Ducati Team 2:02.319 1.471 0.092 45 / 48 2:15.939 12 IANNONE, Andrea Pramac Racing 2:02.334 1.486 0.015 30 / 51 10:20.100 13 AOYAMA, Hiroshi Drive M7 Aspar 2:02.709 1.861 0.375 57 / 59 1:36.580 14 EDWARDS, Colin NGM Mobile Forward Racing 2:02.743 1.895 0.034 29 / 47 1:20.821 15 HERNANDEZ, Yonny Energy T.I. Pramac Racing 2:02.823 1.975 0.080 45 / 50 1:14.792 16 BARBERA, Hector Avintia Racing 2:02.975 2.127 0.152 45 / 47 1:10.616 17 DE PUNIET, Randy Team Suzuki MotoGP 2:03.341 2.493 0.366 66 / 73 1:12.482 18 REDDING, Scott GO&FUN Honda Gresini 2:03.553 2.705 0.212 50 / 51 1:14.398 19 PIRRO, Michele Ducati Test Team 2:03.991 3.143 0.438 37 / 40 9:38.155 20 NAKASUGA, Katsuyuki Yamaha Factory Test Team 2:04.165 3.317 0.174 41 / 45 1:08.511 21 DI MEGLIO, Mike Avintia Racing 2:04.885 4.037 0.720 27 / 59 1:21.541 22 ABRAHAM, Karel Cardion AB Motoracing 2:05.638 4.790 0.753 31 / 36 1:12.375 23 AOKI, Nobuatsu Team Suzuki MotoGP 2:07.302 6.454 1.664 3 / 10 1:22.177 Looks like most people did plenty of laps, although we don't know what tyre/fuel loads anyone was using or test strategies of course. One thing is for sure, without Marquez there everyone will want their name at the top of the sheets by Thursday night  Good to see new names (and a Ducati!)at or near the top of the timesheets and the Open class bikes looking quicker. I don't think they will be quite up there by the end of the test but it looks better than the CRT situation 2 years ago for sure. | ||
| Trojan |
Day two times.... 1 PEDROSA, Dani Repsol Honda Team 2:00.039 55/57 2 ESPARGARO,Aleix NGM Mobile Forward 2:00.320 39/ 41 3 BAUTISTA, Alvaro GO&FUN Honda Gresini 2:00.500 52/55 4 ROSSI,Valentino Yamaha Factory Racing 2:00.605 9/60 5 DOVIZIOSO,Andrea Ducati Team 2:00.787 8/48 6 BRADL,Stefan LCR Honda MotoGP 2:00.902 4/52 7 CRUTCHLOW,Cal Ducati Team 2:00.952 50/52 8 ESPARGARO,Pol Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:01.027 12/47 9 LORENZO,Jorge Yamaha Factory 2:01.049 30/57 10 SMITH,Bradley Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:01.098 57/60 11 IANNONE,Andrea Pramac Racing 2:01.173 23/49 12 HERNANDEZ,Yonny Energy T.I. Pramac Racing 2:01.658 7/50 13 EDWARDS,Colin NGM Mobile Forward 2:01.996 25/45 14 HAYDEN,Nicky Drive M7 Aspar 2:02.088 55/59 15 DE PUNIET,Randy Team Suzuki MotoGP 2:02.139 59/60 16 BARBERA,Hector Avintia Racing 2:02.149 43/45 17 REDDING,Scott GO&FUN Honda Gresini 2:02.652 38/54 18 AOYAMA,Hiroshi Drive M7 Aspar 2:02.786 70/72 19 PIRRO,Michele Ducati Test Team 2:02.799 25/45 20 NAKASUGA,Katsuyuki Yamaha Factory Test Team 2:02.802 47/48 21 DI MEGLIO,Mike Avintia Racing 2:03.946 50/51 22 ABRAHAM,Karel Cardion AB Motoracing 2:05.198 4/25 23 AOKI,Nobuatsu Team Suzuki MotoGP 2:07.462 19/20 | ||
| Trojan |
Ducati riders Dovizioso and Iannone ran the Open clas ECU software on their bikes today (Crutchlow kept to the Factory ECU), with very little difference in lap times to their previous laps using the factory software. This makes it even more likely that Ducati are going to switch to the Open class to get more engines/fuel/testing/tyres this year. The only people still denying it are Ducati themselves. Seems a no brainer to me.... Also.....although the NGM Forward yamaha of Aleix Espargaro is going exceeding well in testing, there is still no sign of the promised FTR chassis that was supposed to be ready for the start of the season. Does this point to yet more finanacial problems between NGM and FTR and what happens if they don't build it? The idea of the Yamaha Open bike was that they supplied just the engine to be housed in an FTR chassis, and they only got special dispensation to run the Yamaha chassis because the FTR wouldn't be ready in time for testing. At the moment Espagaro is laughing because he has Cal Crutchlow's 2013 factory spec Yamaha with more fuel and soft tyres. It will be interesting to see if they allow NGM to race the bike as it stands in Qatar or if they (DORNA/FIM/MSMA)insist on it having the FTR frame, as promised, by then. If that is the case then I would expect the team to be a lot further down the time sheets, as they will have had no testing with the FTR frame. (Message edited by trojan on February 27, 2014) | ||
| Jaimec |
Then what is the point of testing with a frame you won't be using? | ||
| Trojan |
Then what is the point of testing with a frame you won't be using? i think they (NGM) were hoping that either: a. The FTR frame would have been ready by now or b. DORNA/FIM will let them race with the Yamaha frame if the FTR one doesn't appear in time/at all (aslthough that would be contrary to the original agreement the team had with Yamaha and DORNA. I am pretty sure we will see them line up at Qatar with a Yamaha/Yamaha and very little FTR involvement. If Ducati take the Open option with their factory bikes then they can't really complain if Yamaha does the same thing with Forward NGM can they? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
As if Dorna hadn't thought this could turn out to be the case anyway. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
MotoGP Sepang II test day three - conditions dry 1 ROSSI, Valentino Yamaha Factory Racing 1:59.999 13 / 41 2:15.991 2 PEDROSA, Dani Repsol Honda Team 1:59.999 0.000 0.000 47 / 50 1:56.064 3 DOVIZIOSO, Andrea Ducati Team 2:00.067 0.068 0.068 6 / 42 9.104 4 ESPARGARO, Aleix NGM Mobile Forward Racing 2:00.101 0.102 0.034 7 / 43 1:59.656 5 BRADL, Stefan LCR Honda MotoGP 2:00.164 0.165 0.063 12 / 48 1:09.576 6 BAUTISTA, Alvaro GO&FUN Honda Gresini 2:00.506 0.507 0.342 9 / 60 2:38.663 7 LORENZO, Jorge Yamaha Factory Racing 2:00.619 0.620 0.113 20 / 70 1:27.265 8 CRUTCHLOW, Cal Ducati Team 2:00.790 0.791 0.171 7 / 62 2:05.355 9 SMITH, Bradley Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:00.804 0.805 0.014 69 / 71 1:50.346 10 ESPARGARO, Pol Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:01.032 1.033 0.228 6 / 54 2:02.283 11 IANNONE, Andrea Pramac Racing 2:01.198 1.199 0.166 26 / 47 1:08.529 12 DE PUNIET, Randy Team Suzuki MotoGP 2:01.430 1.431 0.232 53 / 55 1:18.789 13 HERNANDEZ, Yonny Energy T.I. Pramac Racing 2:01.497 1.498 0.067 51 / 56 1:52.180 14 EDWARDS, Colin NGM Mobile Forward Racing 2:01.748 1.749 0.251 23 / 35 2:30.890 15 HAYDEN, Nicky Drive M7 Aspar 2:01.924 1.925 0.176 57 / 59 2:02.391 16 PIRRO, Michele Ducati Test Team 2:02.029 2.030 0.105 8 / 48 1:12.856 17 AOYAMA, Hiroshi Drive M7 Aspar 2:02.070 2.071 0.041 61 / 61 2:02.070 18 REDDING, Scott GO&FUN Honda Gresini 2:02.228 2.229 0.158 48 / 50 2:03.852 19 BARBERA, Hector Avintia Racing 2:02.341 2.342 0.113 13 / 54 2:02.675 20 NAKASUGA, Katsuyuki Yamaha Factory Test Team 2:03.115 3.116 0.774 3 / 30 1:12.760 21 DI MEGLIO, Mike Avintia Racing 2:03.499 3.500 0.384 15 / 52 1:49.878 22 ABRAHAM, Karel Cardion AB Motoracing 2:04.304 4.305 0.805 5 / 29 1:43.623 23 AOKI, Nobuatsu Team Suzuki MotoGP 2:06.482 6.483 2.178 3 / 14 1:20.404 Rossi is obviously happier with the new Bridgestone tyres than Lorenzo, who seems to have thrown a hissy fit yesterday and refused to speak to the press at the end of the days testing! Dovi still looking good on the Ducati too, although no mention yet of which ECU version he was running today. The customer RCV HOndas still seem way off the pace and it seems that Honda may have interpreted the Open class rules quite differently to everyone else (as they did with Moto3 laast year!), and will be left with egg on their faces this year. Scott Redding has the added problem of being the only rider using Nissin brakes which he is finding hard to get used to. he has asked for a test with Brembos but who knows when that will happen seeing aas Nissin sponsor the team  Once Bautista got Brembo brakes last year his season turned around, so the difference seems more than we mere mortals can imagine. | ||
| Trojan |
At last Ducati are out of the closet http://www.motomatters.com/news/2014/02/28/ducati_ announce_they_will_be_racing_as_o.html | ||
| 46champ |
The comments on that article from motomatters were great. Ducati has now become the defacto supplier of software for the open bikes. Bet Honda didn't see that one coming. | ||
| Jaimec |
How long before Honda throws a hissy-fit about Ducati? I especially love the fact that the "DORNA software" is essentially the "Ducati Software" to begin with. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Great move by DORNA to introduce the Open class , and limit the electronics....... Great move by Ducati to switch to the Open class.... I wish Yamaha had the "balls" to go Open as well ! Will we see a "repeat" of the 2007 Qatar race ? A Ducati, passing the Jap bikes down the long straight ????? That would make my day ! | ||
| Jaimec |
So far it looks as though the Honda "Open Bikes" are the real dogs of the show. Hopelessly outclassed by the Yamaha open bikes of FTR, and now the ENTIRE Ducati squad. Gotta LOVE it!! | ||
| Firstbuell |
except for Nicky..... | ||
| Jaimec |
Nicky right now is slower than "Old Man" Edwards at the moment. I don't think he's particularly happy. (Message edited by jaimec on February 28, 2014) | ||
| Bads1 |
Day One Test Times (all on Bridgestone tires, courtesy of Bridgestone): 1. Jorge Lorenzo, Spain (Yamaha YZR-M1), 1:29.213 2. Valentino Rossi, Italy (Yamaha YZR-M1), 1:29.576 3. Cal Cructhlow, UK (Ducati GP14), 1:29.730 4. Dani Pedrosa, Spain (Honda RC213V), 1:29.961 5. Andrea Dovizioso, Italy (Ducati GP14), 1:29.965 | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The consistency yet diversity of bike and rider is interesting there. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
I wouldn't take too much notice of the times at PI this week. Each rider has 12 sets of tyres to test in specific fashion by Bridgestone. Some offer a different construction and others have different compaounds. Times will very much depend on who is testing which compound/construction of tyre the riders are using when the times are released. Having said that, Lorenzo is obvioulsy in a happier place than he was last week at Sepang Day two times are similar with Crutchlow and Dovi swapping overall position. I think the only time we will see meaningful times will be at the Qatar practice sessions prior to the first race. It is only then that the teams and riders will be in 'full race' mode (and have Marquez to deal with again). | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Each rider has 12 sets of tyres to test in specific fashion by Bridgestone. Ah that goes some way to explaining why they're all close. As for Qatar, I just turned down my invite. Unlike last year, April was great timing but March this year not so Qatar is not the greatest race to spectate with nearly everyone filling the grandstands down the main straight, but when the bikes come through it were awesome with an electrifying atmosphere. Lots of Spaniard's and South American nations in residence Qatar. As well as Brit's, Yank's and Aussie's etc. Many turn out for the racing. Nearly 10,000 which was a record breaking crowd last year, and brilliant for a country of not many motorbikes (relative) and mainly a few million foreign workers, most of being Indian, bolstering the Qatar population. Not surprising the Spanish racers would come through every lap to rapturous applause and screams, one after the other. Somewhat more surprising though, Monsignor Rossi came through, every lap the rapturous applause and screams were ten times louder! The Spanish love him even when their 'own' are out there! Rocket in England | ||
| Jaimec |
In the very first ever MotoGP program booklet sold at Indianapolis (where they analyzed each of the riders) they pointed out that unlike any other rider of any other nationality, wherever he goes, Valentino Rossi is "the home rider." Guess that proves it! DORNA must really be sweating what happens after this year... |
