| Author | Message | ||
     Nedwreck |
http://tinyurl.com/3zghe The list of things I must have keeps getting longer and longer. Bob | ||
| Dj_rider |
2 bad all these aftermarket people for the buells are so overpricedi mean come on 320 buxs for a piece of steel that costs 20 buxs tops to make??????????????????????????? its bull-$hit (Message edited by court on September 05, 2004) | ||
| Wyckedflesh |
uhm...DJ, mayhaps you should look into the cost alone of the material those particular items are made of before you start spouting off on them costing $20 tops to make. Then there is the manufacturing cost to cut something as hard as those rotors. I will agree there are some items that are way above and beyond what is reasonable, but make sure the item your talking about is one before you put your foot in your mouth. | ||
| Signguyxb12 |
try a waterjet i use it all the time the guy who has it told me $40 and he will write your name in it if you want | ||
| Signguyxb12 |
that was for a dirt bike | ||
| Al_lighton |
DJ, Well, I didn't design it, tool it, test it, or set the MSRP, so I can't say if at $320 it is "so overpriced" or not. But, consider the following: 1) Design time- where do the slots go? Why there? What shape? I seriously doubt they are random, and that some science and testing went into that. Engineering time is very pricey. 2) Testing- That engineer with the theory on what shape and where the slots go above isn't god, so anything he designs needs to be tested. This can eat serious hours. When testing uncovers issues, back to square 1, start over. New design, new prototype, new test program. Did they nail it the first time? Did it take 5 attempts? I don't know, do you? 3) Do you know exactly what material that is? I don't. Was it the stuff you can buy at your local metal stockyard? Maybe. But I kinda doubt it's just cheap stainless for $20. Have you even priced an 18" square of .188" thick stainless? Not that this means anything, but I priced one piece of 24" square 304 stainless, WITHOUT CERTS, at $161.00. Clearly they don't buy it that way, but still, I doubt we're talkin $20.00. 4) It's a brake. As such, it has very stringent flatness requirements. When you roll sheet metal, you get work hardening in the outer layers of the metal that make it harder/stronger but also impart residual stresses. Subsequent wear or machining to that layer can cause the material to bend and twist slightly. On a brake, it is scrap metal when that occurs. I'd bet that the blank this comes from is specially made for the application. It may have started as a piece of rolled stainless, but I'd be willing to bet that both sides of the blank get machined to thickness PRIOR to the thing even getting near the machine that cuts the rotor shape. It MAY even be sliced from billet in order to control flatness. And it's likely that there is an inspection process that occurs on every one of those blanks prior to machining. 5) Look at the size of an XB rotor. The raw material blank is not cheap. Now, maybe they do what Buell did with the Blast (and maybe the XB, not sure) and maybe they get the rear rotor out of the same blank. I haven't verified if they are even the same thickness to see if that is even possible with the XB. If it isn't, that is a lot of useless scrap, scrap that had all the other costs above invested in it prior to cutting the rotor. 6) Machining the shape MAY be the cheapest part of the entire part..but see 4 above. Done wrong, and the machining step will make scrap. Think there may be some custom tooling and/or process development required there? Likely. 7) Product liability- It is a brake rotor...braking components surely must have serious $$ in every part sold that goes towards the massive product liability insurance bill the company pays. 8) This ain't no 600RR rotor. Buell sells what, 8,000 XB's a year for 3 years now. There's what, 25,000 total XB's running around in the WORLD now max? If 5% of them put one of these on their bikes, they will sell 1250 of these things. It'snot like the stock one doesn't work at all and people HAVE to buy one. Pay for all your R&D on 1250 of them? I doubt they're getting rich of this part. 9) Add marketing, packaging, shipping, etc, on top of all of this. Where does that money come from? Is $320 too rich? I don't know. I have other tube frame brake rotors that are smaller that sell for $220-$340. Those prices aren't out of line based on comparisons with other manufacturers of quality brake rotor products. Or maybe you're thinking that it's me, the retailer, that is jacking the customer? I'm charging MSRP. I wish I could discount more, but the fundamental truth is that Buell aftermarket parts sales is a niche business. I'm not running this part time out of my garage. I have a building to rent, utilities, marketing expenses, R&D costs, inventory expenses, etc. If you think I'm getting rich of American Sport Bike, well, you'd be sadly mistaken. My wife and I are working twice as long/hard as I had to when I was working in engineering, for less than half the income. I'd love to sell everything at 10% or more discount from MSRP, but I wouldn't stay in business very long if I did. In a niche business like Buell product sales, one can not make up in quantity what one loses on margin. There is a reason that all those mega suppliers out there (i.e., MAW, Chaparral, etc) don't carry Buell aftermarket products. Their business is volume based. Mine isn't, and won't be, until Buell triples their sales. That's reality. Your comments are not grounded in reality. If the rotor is not worth $320 to you, then don't buy it. But be glad that there are companies out there that are willing to design/produce/market cool products for our niche bikes at all. There are many that don't/won't at any price because they don't need to fight the perceptions like yours when they can just go collect $$$ from the Honda riders. Peace. | ||
| Dj_rider |
no matter what you say, i still think buell aftermarket prices are way 2 high...i wasnt picking any one out of the bunch to bitch about, i just dont see myself paying that much for a piece of metal... | ||
| Dj_rider |
you dont have to get defensive with me, im not some mean prick like a few of the people on here...im just stating that similar parts for jap bikes are 1/2 the price......... | ||
| Al_lighton |
I hear ya, DJ. But again, you have to look at WHY the pricing for Buell stuff is what it is. It's simple supply and demand economics. The volumes are not there to amortize the R&D, marketing, distribution, and other expenses over many more units. It is the way of the world. Several suppliers of tube frame parts and accessories have pulled out of the Buell P&A biz since I bought American Sport Bike in January, they just can't afford to stay in the game. For the ones that do, they have to have price increases to keep providing Buell parts. I wish it wasn't so, but it is reality. Buell themselves is fighting the same problem, but it is even harder for them. When the tube frame Buells were in production, they could buy, for instance, 50 extra headers a month (hypothetical volume, I don't know what they did) for use as OEM parts sales to support the tuber riders that crashed or cracked their headers. Well, now that they aren't making header production orders, the supplier of those headers is asking for SUBSTANTIALLY more $$ to make those same headers. Buell has two choices, both suck. 1) Pay that price, and pass it on to the customer. The customer then gets PO'd about the price they have to pay for a header. 2) Stop buying them altogether. The customer get's PO'd about the manufacturer no longer supporting a bike that just went out of production a mere 2 years ago. Clearly, for Buell to stay in the game for the long term, they MUST choose 1). Customers will not be happy to pay the extra $$, and Buell can't eat the cost and stay in business. But the customer will be able to keep his bike on the road. Choice 2) is deadly, as potential buyers of NEW Buells will go away as they become aware of Buells choice to discontinue such parts and their perception is that they will be abandoned. The aftermarket has no such constraints. If the vendor can't sell it at a palatable cost, he turns off the product. Braketech turned off their very nice Black Lightning rotor this year for that reason (I still have 2, but when they are gone, no more..BTW, they cost $349  see here ). Joker is about to turn off some of their billet parts. TM components, who made all the cool little polished billet goodies, went out of business last year. The list of Buell aftermarket companies that are no more is not short. I don't mean to be defensive, but I see and fight this issue daily. As the guy at the end of the supplier line, I take the heat on the pricing. There just isn't that much that can be done about it, short of Buell selling a lot more motorcycles. But then, many would not want one, as the very uniqueness that attracted them to the brand to begin with would be gone. Al | ||
| Court |
>>>no matter what you say, i still think buell aftermarket prices are way 2 high... I must ask...why in the world did you buy a Buell then? I've owned 9 Buells over the last 20 years and I wish you'd been here when production numbers could be counted on a single hand. I bought a 320mm rotor for my KLR and paid something on the order of >$300 but realized it was a very special (i.e. no economy of scale) part. We are quite fortunate to have such a choice avaiable. Enjoy and if it hits your "price point" and you need it (like anybody needs to upgrade the brakes on a Buell) then buy it. If not, do what I do, buy a couple other brands to share space with your Buell. Al Lighton...if you so much as THINK about apologizing for your pricing I'll PERSONALLY come to CA and slap the BBQ sauce out of you! I WANT you making a profit! Court | ||
| Madbandito |
Al- you gotta lotta nerve. I suggest that you and your family could stop eating or wearing clothes. That way you could shave your profit margin to something like $.05 per item and sell everything at a loss. Its in the customers best interest..  Nobody is getting rich selling Buell P&A. There just isn't the demand to support it. The dealer that is willing to step up and carry stuff for these machines does so with that understanding. While so-called "Volume Discount" places can get away with very little profit on certain products or even selling some things as "Loss leaders" -this only serves to eliminate the smaller competition. When they are gone then the big dogs are free to charge whatever they please.. I think I got off on a tangent- I just HATE big business tactics.... | ||
| Outrider |
Yep...Just like a toilet seat...Ya gotta pay for the "Hole." Bet you'll never guess who sold almost a million Butcher Block Oak Toilet Seats at $60 to $100 MSRP. | ||
| Spike |
The list of things I must have keeps getting longer and longer. Agreed. Al, be sure to let us know when you get one of these rotors mounted. I'd like to hear if there's a noticable difference. Mike L. | ||
| Ortegakid |
And Al, I'll buy one when we get lrb to make a composite rotor for the stl,keep me informed,can't wait. | ||
| Xbolt12 |
Al, Good post! I sometimes wonder how Tat and now you can make a profit based upon the small number of Buells around. I know it must be difficult. Anyway, you are appreciated as I'm sure you know. You also put on one heck of a great BBQ! Keep the faith! xbolt12 | ||
| Ezblast |
Screw ya - ment in the nicest way - Banke said when I was willing to spend some money- he'd do a wave for the Blast fr & rr - I'm sure it will cost more than that - these bikes are not Hondas - TG - lol GT - JBOTDS! EZ  | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
Al, I agree with what you said about price point. Just because I can't afford one doesn't mean I don't want one. When my stock rotor no longer meets the tolerances I can justify one and will be giving you a call. Like Court mentioned, it's not like the Buell needs one. I'm like Nedwreck though, I must have one for the sake of completing the vision of my bike that I've got in my cobweb laden head. Thank you Al for what you do and most of all for the full belly on the ride home to AZ. Cant get over how GOOD that tri-tip was! Hey Court  it was REALLY GOOD! | ||
| Dj_rider |
i bought my buell because my soon to be wife's father gave me a list of things i had to do in order to marry his daughter...one was buy a buell...this is no bull...and i love my bike, err my wrecked bike...and i didnt mean to offend anyone, so please quit flexing your internet muscles, i come here to learn more about the 10k investment i have made, not to put anyone down or have anyone do the same to me...i only wished the buell parts were cheaper, i didnt mean for everyone to get technical about the whole process...i just want cheaper parts | ||
| Skunk160 |
Al, just out of interest do American Sport Bike ship to the UK? sorry for hi-jackin' this thread | ||
| Reepicheep |
Heck, why stop there. I want people to pay me to take parts | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
DJ, believe me I'm with ya, I wish they were cheaper too. That's why I'm gonna wait till my current rotor is worn out so I can justify spending the dough. Have to replace it then anyway is my thinking... | ||
| Stoobr2 |
$320 is rather expensive (£179.00GBP). I had one fitted to my Xb9s £105.00GBP See picture/details my profile. | ||
| Trojan |
We have them at GBP £105 less 10% discount for Badweb members. Even with the shipping it would come in at less than US$320 by a long chalk..... | ||
| Skunk160 |
soory I didnt mean to get a trans-atlantic price debate going, Im so used to buying stuff for my 'Stang an having to pay Dollars for Pounds no doubt Ill be ordering from American Sport Bike and Trojan | ||
| Al_lighton |
"wife's father gave me a list of things i had to do in order to marry his daughter...one was buy a buell" Now there's a father-in-law ya gotta love, eh? Sure beats the far more typical "have to sell that murder-cycle if you're gonna marry my daughter". I assume he's a Buell rider himself? Posts here? No offense taken, DJ. If your original post had just said "it sucks" that they are so expensive, that'd be one thing. Heck, I'd agree with ya. But when you said "it's Bull$hit", well, that's a little different, because it's unfortunately just economic reality. Peace. Thanks for the continued support, folks. We aim to please. Martin, we ship to the UK all the time, using USPS Global Express Mail. Shipping is typically in the $25-$40 range for most things. An exhaust pipe or similar can get pricey due to size/weight, though. And your country's customs/import duty rates are a crime. Ping me with an email to sales@americansportbike.com with what you need and I can give you a shipping quote and additional info. PS That was good tri-tip! I had the leftovers for lunch all last week. Ummmmm-good! |
