| Author | Message | ||
     Pyrplhaze |
so some of yall may be familiar with my trials trying to get this bike to run... I'll forgo the intro assuming you know where I last left off, and say that I finally acquired a fuel pump off of a 2000 s3 that was working when removed. Installed this new fuel pump into my X1, and it's not doing a thing. Turn key, and nothing. I get a "click" somewhere in the tank, but no fuel coming out of the fuel pump outlet.... Thoughts? I'm not sure how to diagnose this one, as even with the non-working pump, I could hear the "humm" of it upon turning the key, however I don't hear that with this one (though, truth be told, I plugged in the old one and didn't hear it either) but the only possible thing I can think of at this point is a low battery (which it is...on charger now) Do you think that things will be different with a full charge on the battery, or am I chasing ghosts here? Fuses are all good, wiring appears to be intact, don't see any other issues, but no fuel coming out of the pump...nothing upon turning the key (priming?) and nothing upon pushing "start" button either.... I don't want to ditch this bike bc I know it can run, but damn if she isn't giving me hell to start off a relationship... | ||
| Kalali |
Rule out the easy things first - fuses and relays, connectors are tight, clean and secured; grounds are tight and shiny, and a fully charged battery. Also don't forget the ignition switch.... | ||
| Impala |
Ignition switches are known to go on these. Mine almost left me stranded several times. Had to switch it on and off numerous times until I heard the pump run. Replacement from American Sport Bike and all was well. A low battery should cycle the pump but the bike may not start... | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
ok. sounds like possibly ignition switch? Here's more backstory...bought bike. Test drive fired up fine. Got home. Rode a bit around the neighborhood that eve. Started/ran fine. Week later (next chance I had to ride) shit the bucket on me 3/4 mile from the house (apparently bad fuel pump) So, since it hasn't ran since then, I'm hoping it's a battery problem. On the charger now. Will report back (hopefully?) soon... | ||
| Steveford |
Kill switch, cut off switches (BAS, clutch and side stand) will do what you're describing. | ||
| S1owner |
My s1 would run great till it got warm then it would kill could not figure it out people told me to check this and that one thing they said was ignition I thought no way after lots of time and money I got a new ignition and key boom fixed! Check everything simple and for sure the ignition | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
BAS? I know clutch and sidestand switch are ok, but no idea what BAS is... I'm sure that if I had that godforsaken ECMSpy cable I could do this a little easier, but I don't, and haven't even ordered one yet. That's most definitely next on my list. | ||
| Harleyelf |
Bank Angle Sensor. You can disable it with ECMSpy. Unplugging it is not enough. | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
ahhhh..well, guess that's going to have to wait til the cable comes in...guess I should order that thing sooner rather than later, eh? Appears that I'm going to be needing it more than I had anticipated... heavens I miss carbed bikes! | ||
| Mcelhaney14 |
Pull the plug on the ignition switch and bridge all three contacts. If it will start then your switch is bad. Easy test and doesn't cost anything. I've had 2 go bad already. | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
Well, did a quick and dirty test this morning before I left work. Bike's been on the trickle charger all night and now fully charged...so, here's where I stand now... Ignition switch is good- bike cranks when I push it. I believe my issue lies with the fuel pump and possibly getting power to it. I figured I would try a bit different approach after yesterday's adventure of installing pump, dumping gas into tank, trying to fire, and having no luck, only to realize that the pump wasn't functioning, and then having to dump the fuel, remove pump, and let the bike sit on the charger overnight. So, this morning before I left for work, I checked battery: full charge. With the pump out of the tank, I just hooked it up to the connector to see if it would give me the priming "HMMMM" sound when I turned the key to the "ON" position. No cranking, just wanted to see if it would "HMMM" for me. Well, plug it in, turn key to "on" and nothing. Not sure what the issue could be, but here's what I noticed: -No sound from fuel pump -Low Fuel indicator on dash didn't light up I'm hoping it's nothing too major, as the person who sold me the pump said that it cam off of a running S3, so I'm leaning towards a possible electrical issue, but fuses/wiring all appear to be in serviceable condition... I plan on checking the sidestand switch again this evening, kill switch appears to be good (but will check it also), and I have no clue where the BAS is. Also, how do I pull the relays? Could the problem lie with them? I've tried pulling them out, but they seem stuck in there pretty good, and I can't figure out how to remove them without breaking something... **EDIT** looked in the manual and found where the Bank Angle Sensor is...according to the manual, under the tail section on left side.. Man, this has been quite a learning thus far. I am regularly frustrated, but knowing that it is only increasing my knowledge of this terribly unfamiliar bike is very comforting!! (Message edited by pyrplhaze on December 04, 2013) | ||
| Lynrd |
a volt meter or even a check light would tell you a lot - where there is power, and where there isn't. The pump was a pull from the Frog, and she started right up and ran the day before she came down, so I am really sure the pump is OK. | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
yep. I'm darn positive that the pump isn't the issue at this point...it's chasing the electrical issue that has me pulling my hair out!!! Thanks again for that pump  the throttle body is yours if you still want it | ||
| Lynrd |
I do - that will teach me to sit next to Fireman Jim at ASBN - damn guy talked me into turning Gloria into a FI S2...  I'll send e-mail to hash out the particulars... | ||
| Oldog |
haze, 12V, and a control line from the ecm which turns the ground on and off, IIRC for the pump the LFL switch feeds the bulb or is fed from the bulb, to ground or batt being that there are 4 wires I think it may be ground, I will check when home later... | ||
| Kalali |
The relays can be hard to pull out if they've never been touched. I think I ended up using a pair of long nose pliers to pull one out. I have a "customized" long nose with a slightly bent tips just for this purpose. Just don't go crazy and crush the edges... The relay and fuse should be the first things to rule out.. | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
Oldog: you are correct. Looked very carefully at a wiring diagram last night and noted exactly what you describe for the fuel pump. Haven't chased the bulb, but I've got the wiring diagram printed out and sitting in front of me specifically for that at this moment. Kalali: That's what I was thinking, but didn't want to yank on them too hard in case there was a tab or something that I was missing. Will pull the relay tonight and see what it looks like... As an aside, once I get the relay pulled, what should I be looking for? Fuses are easy to tell if they're bad, but I've never touched a relay... Thanks again, folks. If I ever see any of you around Houston area, beers on me! | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Relays can be problematic but the good thing is they're the same as 90s Jeep & very easy to find cheap. My XB had hell and all trouble with duff relays M2 still on the originals, go figure. This may sound like stating the bleeding obvious (but sometimes tbo needs to be said) have you checked that there's a ground to the pump? Many many vehicle electrical problems, particularly on motorcycles where so much is exposed, are due to corroded connectors & bad grounds. | ||
| Serialk |
I had this exact same problem... new/used fuel pump installed and no whrr or anything. Found out I installed the leads backwards I felt like an idiot when I discovered what I did. Check the wires to the fuel pump.. if they are backwards you get no pumpity pump... sometimes it really is as easy as that | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
oh man I'm going to feel like an idiot if this fixes my issue. Will give this a shot in a bit, and see what happens... If not work, I'll post up later this afternoon/evening with where I'm at now. Barring what you've mentioned, I think this could be an ECM issue... | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
OK! Here's where we are now...man, this has been quite the learning so far, but I think I've narrowed down the issue.. Almost everything appears "OK" except one item that I'm pretty positive is the issue. There are 4 wires going to the pump via the connector: Yellow/Red: This comes from "low fuel" light on dash, and I believe powers the sensor in the tank Black: Ground Green/Yellow: Comes from ECM to a junction that gives power to the following: injectors, pump, ignition, and Bank Angle sensor Brown/Yellow: Straight from ECM to pump. Now here's the bit: All of these have power, with a single exception. The Brown/Yellow is not getting any power from the ECM. I think this is what's causing the issue, as here is what I'm seeing now -Connect everything -Turn key to "on" to let pump prime (this is where we should hear "hmmm" noise" -All I hear is a "click" of the pump cycling on, and then shortly after, another where it clicks "off" I think the issue is that Brn/Y wire that isn't getting any power from ECM. That, if I'm right, SHOULD be the one that gives it the full "hmmm" noise. The pump is cycling, however it appears that there is no pressure building up behind it. So, my conclusion, and folks, I beg of you- please correct me if this is going down the wrong path; I think there is something going on with the ECM that I'll need to probably clear a code or something to see. I've ordered a cable, and it should be here this week sometime (Thurs was the est arrival) and I've already got a copy of ECMSpy. I think once those codes are cleared, that the ECM should provide power to the pump and life will go on. That's my hope, anyhow... I have a video to show what it's doing, as I know sometimes that helps diagnose, but no idea how to post a link. It's uploaded to my Picasa account, but can't get it linked here...if you think it'd help, shoot me a pm, and I'll email it to you... | ||
| Oldog |
haze, the ecm switches the ground on and off. | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
oldog- not sure I get what you're saying.. If the ECM is switching ground off/on correctly, then it should run? I saw in another post in a different section that if you ran a jumper wire between the ground (black) and brn/y wire while unplugged from the ECM, that it should cycle the pump. I tried that, and it's not working. While everything was unplugged from the ECM, I checked voltage at the ECM connector: Gray is pulling good power (11.7v with key "on") however, brn/yellow is not pulling any voltage. I tested this by sticking one pin into the ground wire, and the other into the appropriate "hot" wire spot on the ECM connector So, does this mean that somewhere there is likely a bad ground? Here's a link to the thread I mentioned above http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/3842/36029.html#POST176475 Again, thanks for all the help, everyone. You truly are a patient crew. I appreciate everyone helping me, and also recognize that this must be infinitesimally frustrating to put up with this from me This patience does not go unnoticed (Message edited by pyrplhaze on December 09, 2013) | ||
| Firemanjim |
What happens when you put 12 volts to fuel pump connector, does pump work then? The ecm must see a number of conditions to make fuel pump work--- I think as Oldog says that it is just a ground on that brn/yellow wire. Kickstand switch, neutral switch,clutch switch and BAS all must be good for ecm to let pump work.And the pump is set up to cycle on when key turns on to pressurize system then shut down when it sees correct pressure.If yours is doing this you should have pressure. Have you put a gauge on it? | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
I have not tried to put 12v directly to the pump connector...will give that a shot this evening. Honestly, the thought really never crossed my mind! I presume that I will need to connect power to both brn/yellow and gray, and connect ground to black...Or, are you saying that Brn/Ylw is a ground, and doesn't need power? I know that it does connect to the pump on one of the terminals, along with the Gray wire on the other terminal... When I turn the key, I do hear the pump clicking (turn on: pump clicks, wait a few seconds, clicks again...kind of an ON click and then OFF click), however I don't hear the humming of the pump priming (I presume that humming noise is the pressure building up?) It is most definitely not pressurizing at the moment, just actuating, if that makes any sense. I'll try connecting straight to power this eve and see what's up. I know for sure that neutral and clutch switch are both good, and I am presuming that kickstand and BAS are good, as the bike was running prior to the previous pump crapping out on me (in glorious fashion, might I add, if you see the pics I've posted in another thread) But, to be sure, I'm planning on doublechecking them again this evening. I tried to find BAS yesterday to no avail, but I'm sure that I just didn't look hard enough... | ||
| Pyrplhaze |
ok ok ok. I am now 100% sure that I have identified the issue. It's the pump. I'm now sure. How'd I find out, you ask? Well, I knew that this thing ran before the old pump shit the bucket on me. With the new pump, it doesn't run. After going through all this diagnosing, I had a lightbulb. Where on earth is this other pump? Let's wire this pump to the leads connected to the 'new' pump. Well, lo and behold, I turn the key, and get that high pitched whine that I have been dying for! So, now I have a pump that is currently mounted in the regulator that does not work, and a plainly obvious aftermarket pump that isn't mounted into anything. The fully assembled pump doesn't appear to work (there is something shaking around in there, as well...not sure that could be the issue..) but now I need to figure out how to swap these two out. I presume the swap shouldn't be too hard, but I need to make sure I'm not gonna screw any of this up... More to come... |
