| Author | Message | ||
     Uly_man |
The bike has been standing for nearly five weeks, been away, but I left the battery connected to see what would happen to the starting. The battery had a near full charge and the Gammatronix volt monitor was fine, green flashing in standby mode, before I left it. Now the Gammatronix monitor was on yellow so it had lost some charge, which this bike will do standing, and was about 11.8V. On the first hit on the starter it did the usual thing but on the second the bike fired up perfect. The air temp was 47F so not very cold. I thought that this result was outstanding, for a big V-Twin engine, and proves that there is nothing wrong with this battery. It may be that Buell did something in the timing to effect this, on a 10 bike, but I can not prove this. Saying that though I have been using the correct charger for a AGM battery and using the "cycle mode" to condition the battery once in a while. Doing this makes it hold a greater charge which should, even though it is a 12V battery, be about 13V standing. I am now convinced that the Buell charging system is not good enough. It is, more or less, just a gloryfied trickle charger as it is not an alternator. But that is common on bikes. | ||
| Griffmeister |
Um, the Buell charging system is an alternator. That's why the output voltage is AC and the measured voltage increases with engine RPM. It is also capable of putting out over 30 amps which is more than enough for the engine, electronics and lights. This is fine for a sport bike but admittedly can be taxed by accessories. Everything has it's limits and there's only so much room to fit it all in. Many people seem to rave about the aftermarket stator/VR combos, durable with stable voltage output. Maybe you should consider one of those? | ||
| Reepicheep |
The difference UlyMan is getting at is that the Uly (like many motorcycles) uses a permanent magnet to create the magnetic field that is used to create the electric power available to run the electrical systems and charge the battery. This is a very simple and reliable design with no brushes and that requires no "bootstrap" power. Cars use an alternator that creates the magnetic field with a second set of coils instead of a permanent magnet. The down side of this is that it needs to be "bootstrapped" with a battery to get going (you need power to make power) and you need brushes to get the electricity across to a spinning shaft into the spinning bits. The advantage is that you can control the strength of the magnetic field and dramatically change the amount of power you produce at any given RPM, and ultimately produce a lot more power from the same sized package. Because you just can't make a strong enough permanent magnet. | ||
| Uly_man |
Yes Reepicheep thats the one. What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with the HD AGM battery but I think it may suffer from a sort of "memory effect" like Ni-Cads do. Who knows? | ||
| Teeps |
Uly_man Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2013 What I am saying is that there is nothing wrong with the HD AGM battery Or any AGM battery; as the 7 year old Yuasa in my Ulssyes would agree. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I agreed about the HD AGM for the first 3 I bought, but #4 was junk. It's on the shelf after a year and I am back to running the #3 battery I bought to replace it. #3 at 4 years old works better than #1 at one year. Both have been on an AGM compatible smart charger (though maybe not the best one). Which conditioner are you using Uly Man? Putting the bike on a cycle charger once a month or so isn't a big deal if it gives me a happy battery. | ||
| Firstbuell |
yes, please, for I, too, am willing to perform a periodic procedure that will lengthen my OEM battery's life & performance | ||
| Griffmeister |
I find it hard to complain about these batteries. It used to be that you couldn't count on the small batteries to last more than a couple of years. I bought my Uly in 09 as a leftover so it sat in the dealer's warehouse for a year on a tender. Now it's on a Battery Tender Jr, at least seven years old, and still in spec condition. In a perfect world I'd like it to stay that way forever, but if anything happened now I don't think I'd be too disappointed. | ||
| Uly_man |
"Which conditioner are you using Uly Man?". I use a Ring Automotive Smart Charge Pro 25. Yes it is not cheap but then again it is a Pro tool and very good quality. It is a four chemistry battery device and I have three types now. AGM, Calcium and Wet cell all of which need differing types of charging. It does every thing you need and more. I have just bought a bike with a wet cell battery that need a re-charge and after just two manual reconditions you could see on the charger that the battery was holding a higher charge. That is the good thing with this charger. It tests the battery and shows you all the numbers. Something a cheaper unit may not do. The key issue is the absorption rate of the battery. You can charge a battery as much as you like but if it will not hold a charge then it is not any good or at least not at 100%. The HD AGM battery should hold a charge, off bike or disconnected, of at least 12.7v for 24 hrs and more like 13.1v. My charger does a 90 second test that should not goes below 13.5v after a charge. If it does it will do a automatic re-condition of the battery. This test is what your shop would do IE The right way to do it for this type of battery. A Vee Twin needs all the power it can get. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hmmm, I'm seeing that on a lot of UK sites, but not here in the US yet. This the one I bought on a whim... it was only $20 and I needed one, and it came with all the right connectors for what was already wired into my bike by a previous owner. http://www.batterychargers.com/ProductDetail.aspx? ProductName=94026970 It says microprocessor controlled, but it isn't clear if it does a recondition, or just a smart trickle. | ||
| Uly_man |
"It says microprocessor controlled, but it isn't clear if it does a recondition, or just a smart trickle". Before I bought mine I spent a lot of time looking into what the AGM battery needs and the the spec of chargers. Most are just this but anything that can do more is a lot more costly. I am not saying you need what I have. What you do need however is the max from your battery on a Vee Twin engine and this battery can do it if it is right. I like to see the facts/ data. Sort of like using Tuner-Pro (or other) to see what your FI is doing. | ||
| Uly_dude |
I just changed out my battery this last summer on my 06 Uly. It was the original battery and still worked! Though it was turning over slower than my brand new HD AGM battery. I figured if it lasted 7 yrs, then the HD batteries can't be too bad. So why did I change it out you might ask? My mechanic told me that even though old batteries may seem to work fine, as they age they will tax the charging system more and more. It could over work the charging system to the point of failure. Something to think about if you're fighting with charging problems. Nobody likes to brag about their perfectly good 7 yr old battery more than me, but it's just not worth it given the charging challenges these bikes seem to have. BTW, I now use and Accel stator and a Compufire VR. | ||
| Uly_man |
"My mechanic told me that even though old batteries may seem to work fine, as they age they will tax the charging system more and more. It could over work the charging system to the point of failure". That is a sort of yes and no depending on many things. I think that there is some confusion on this and it may be due, which I understand, to "old school" thinking with wet cell type batteries. You can still buy/use these but they are not like modern types IE AGM, GEL etc which have a different chemistry/design/build and charge type. Then you have all the other things to take into account including the parasitic drain of a standing bike. There are no numbers for the basic "load" on this bike but the max output of the charging system is about 405 Watts @ 3000 rpm. Just the low beam, always on, Halogen light is using 55 watts before you even start on anything else on the bike. Then you have HD saying that a 100% charge is 12.7 Volts which is WRONG. Now 12.7 V to 13 V may not seem like very much but it is a lot on this bikes engine. So how to prove all of this? Do it in stages. Run the bike and then check the battery volts. Check it again after 24 hours. It will have gone down a little due to bike drain but not less than 12.7 V. If, off bike, it holds 13 V for 24 hours that is good. The ideal number is 13.2 V but that is a perfect number and these things vary due to build. This is a Electro Chemical storage device and the better it does this the better it will work. Battery Type and Specifications Sealed Lead Acid, maintenance-free, 12-volt, 12 amp-hour (per Battery Council International rating), 200 cca. Charging System Specifications 30-amp max permanent magnet single-phase alternator with solid-state regulator (405 watts@3,000 rpm, 405 watts peak) |
