| Author | Message | ||
     Orygun |
Looks like my old 06 battery is nearing the end of its life. As I was shopping for batteries - I found lithium iron batteries in addition to the usual normal fare and the more exotic lithium ion batteries. Is anyone on this forum running one of these in their uly? If so, how well is it working / how long have you had it? Any info would be greatly appreciated. Here is the battery I am considering... http://www.batterystuff.com/batteries/motorcycle/b uell/2006/1200cc-xb12x-ulysses/ Its advertised at $134.00 | ||
| Froggy |
That Scorpion one is looking pretty good, I might have to pick one up to test. I would avoid the Shoari, it is overpriced junk and a ticking timebomb with the Buell charging systems. EBR makes a really nice one, but it is twice the cost of the these. I have that in my 1125CR, and an old Speedcell Lithium on my 1125R. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
No problems with our 2 shorai batteries. Not sure Froggy is croaking from any first hand experience with a shorai battery. Put my Buell's shorai into my 97' FLHTCI which has not been run in over a year and it spun that engine into life so fast I was kind of amazed. | ||
| Froggy |
Here is a video proof of Shoari lying about their output. The thing even starts smoking in the middle of the test! These results are not unusual, there have been reports on here by Buell owners, and on other websites of their batteries providing subpar performance. They flat out lie about their specs, it is the equivalent of Buell advertising the Uly has 103hp vtwin, but you put it on the dyno and you find out they really only had the 33hp Blast single in the frame. Due to Shorai's shortcuts, they don't take too kindly to overvoltage conditions, like when your VR starts acting up. A lead battery can take some abuse, a lithium will ignite if it doesn't have a bypass. Desert_Bird had that happen to him while traveling through Mexico, luckly the battery failed in that case without going up in flames.   Their batteries are overpriced at $200. Hell you couldn't even pay me $200 to put one on my bike, that won't cover my insurance deductible if it decides to blow. | ||
| Teeps |
Orygun Posted on Friday, September 13, 2013 - Looks like my old 06 battery is nearing the end of its life. If this is the original OEM battery, that's nearing its end; why would you not replace it with like kind? | ||
| Desert_bird |
I envy your experience EG97. You must have some from the better updated batch. As you know, I confirm what Froggy says. My Shorai DID melt down in the middle of the mountains on Mex 131 between Oaxaca City and Puerto Escondido, leaving me completely stranded. I was lucky to have pulled over at the first hiccup instead of trying my luck and risk sending my ass up in flames. It was due to an intermittent VR short that I diagnosed much later. Shorai couldn't handle the overcharge situation the way lead batteries can. Imho, may be a sell with a flawlessly functioning electrical system. But electric gremlins abound in my machine so I wouldn't want to risk it again. They were supposed to have worked that problem out in subsequent improved models via dedicated overcharge circuitry and cell balancing gizmos. Though this wasn't my experience with an updated unit. I realize the faulty logic in assuming the system would (ever) work with a failing VR, but for me that extra 10 pounds of lead is worth a ton of peace of mind. That said, Shorai were upstanding about sending a new unit out (which got me to Panama before failing!) then finally refunding my money. DB (Message edited by Desert_bird on September 14, 2013) | ||
| Nik |
"CCA" is something that manufactures often do a bunch of hand waiving about, even though there's an SAE standard test (SAE J537) to determine it. Just compare a Deka ETX14 to a Braille B129. 220 CCA vs 813 pulse cranking amps (whatever those are.) The difference? A sticker, and nearly $100. Shorai and a lot of the LiFePO4 battery makers do these weird PBeq ratings for marketing purposes. If you read their explanation on their website even they say it can only hold sufficient voltage at those high current draws for 5 seconds, when the video Froggy posted shows it failing at 8 seconds. Neither are true SAE J537 CCA ratings. I like how that Scorpion battery shows test results comparing it to its AGM equivalent, but its still a Chinese LiFePO4 being compared to a Chinese AGM. The only batteries I've ever had problems with were made in China. Supposedly preminum MotoBatt and no-name ebay junk both. I have no experience with Scorpion however. Their AGM looks like a copy of a made in the USA Deka. So the Chinese LiFePO4 battery is at least as good as a Chinese copy of a Deka, if their marketing data is accurate. I'm curious to see how the partnership between EBR and Shorai works out. I think LiFePO4 batteries could work much better if designed into the bikes electrical system to start with, with protection circuitry, maybe higher voltage too. Outside of racing applications I'm not sure if they're an appropriate direct lead acid replacement. (Message edited by Nik on September 14, 2013) (Message edited by Nik on September 14, 2013) | ||
| Tootal |
Just saw these in the American Motorcyclist ads: http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/08/deltran-lifep o4-lithium-batteries/ | ||
| Uly_man |
"Looks like my old 06 battery is nearing the end of its life". How do you know that this is the case? Whats it doing, how is it being charged, tested, etc. I would check it is 100% going bad before you buy something else. I still have my 06 HD AGM battery and it is as good as the 10 bikes battery. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Froggy, You still have not said that you've own a Shorai yourself and had a problem with it. Maybe no one should buy a lead acid battery because plenty of people have ended up with bad cells or short life. I'm glad that you can dig up photos but I still have two with no problems. | ||
| Sparky |
I'm currently running a Shorai batt in my 1125R but this is after it's had new stators, VRs and the EBR oil jet modded rotor to keep stator temps in control. So I have confidence that the charging system should be dependable for the long term. But what would happen if, say, the VR goes belly up and the voltage spikes up to 18VDC like it did before the Shorai? Would that take out the LiFePO4 battery before I could do anything about it like switch in extra loads to keep the voltage in the safe zone or are the latest Shorais more forgiving? | ||
| Satori |
Sparky those are good questions. The big question for me though is if they are that bad of quality why would EBR form a business alliance with them? Since it seems they will be spec for the new bikes, how bad can they be?, or are they upgrading some circuitry to protect the battery in the case of a VR failure. Maybe EBR is assisting with some engineering to up the quality? Or will there be an EBR spec battery that has a fail safe circuit? Shorai would not be the first company whose quality wasn't all that great when they started out, the first and second generation of Honda civics were not exactly great cars known for their high quality, but they were cheap. | ||
| Orygun |
How do I know my old battery is close to the end of its life? The voltmeter I installed shows it is charging properly. It is also on a battery tender. When I turn the bike on, the voltage used to hold at 12.1 but is now below 12v - so the charge is not holding any more. Plus, it is an 8 year old battery. I just bought the bike a few months ago - so I dont know its history - other than it was in the Uly with 102 miles on it when I purchased it. A new battery seems like a cheap insurance policy at this point... Why do I want to try this particular battery? Weight and cranking power and the lessened environmental impact (at least as opposed to lithium ion). Plus - its 2013 - time to embrace some new technology... According to Wikipedia: The LiFePO 4 battery uses a lithium-ion-derived chemistry and shares many advantages and disadvantages with other Lithium-ion battery chemistries. However, there are significant differences. LFP chemistry offers a longer cycle life than other lithium-ion approaches.[6] Like nickel-based rechargeable batteries (and unlike other lithium ion batteries), LiFePO4 batteries have a very constant discharge voltage. Voltage stays close to 3.2V during discharge until the battery is exhausted. This allows the battery to deliver virtually full power until it is discharged. And it can greatly simplify or even eliminate the need for voltage regulation circuitry. Because of the nominal 3.2V output, four batteries can be placed in series for a nominal voltage of 12.8V. This comes close to the nominal voltage of six-cell lead-acid batteries. And, along with the good safety characteristics of LFP batteries, this makes LFP a good potential replacement for lead-acid batteries in many applications such as automotive and solar applications. The use of phosphates avoids cobalt's cost and environmental concerns, particularly concerns about cobalt entering the environment through improper disposal.[6] LiFePO 4 has higher current or peak-power ratings than LiCoO2.[7] The energy density (energy/volume) of a new LFP battery is some 14% lower than that of a new LiCoO2 battery.[8] Also, many brands of LFPs, as well as cells within a given brand of LFP batteries, have a lower discharge rate than lead-acid or LiCoO2. Since discharge rate is a percentage of battery capacity a higher rate can be achieved by using a larger battery (more ampère-hours) if low current batteries must be used. Better yet, a high current LFP cell (which will have a higher discharge rate than a lead acid or LiCoO2 battery of the same capacity) can be used. LiFePO 4 cells experience a slower rate of capacity loss (aka greater calendar-life) than lithium-ion battery chemistries such as LiCoO2 cobalt or LiMn2O4 manganese spinel lithium-ion polymer batteries or lithium-ion batteries.[9][10] After one year on the shelf, a LiFePO 4 cell typically has approximately the same energy density as a LiCoO2 Li-ion cell, because of LFP's slower decline of energy density. Thereafter, LiFePO 4 likely has a higher density. | ||
| Uly_man |
"You *must not* utilize a 'smart' charger that has a 'desulfation mode', like Optimate or Accumate. While these are terrific chargers for lead acid batteries, using one on a Shorai battery could likely damage it. "Can I use a Battery Tender on a Shorai battery?" Yes, you may use a Battery Tender (brand) charger. When connected to a Shorai battery, they're not optimal, and you definitely wouldn't use it they way you'd use one on a traditional lead-acid battery; here's why: The Shorai battery has a higher terminal voltage than a lead-acid powersports battery. Consequently, the Battery Tender cannot charge the Shorai to the proper voltage, nor can it individually charge and diagnose each cell the way the Shorai BMS01 Battery Maintenance System can. You'd only want to use the Battery Tender if your Shorai battery is deeply discharged, and then maybe only for 30 minutes, or so, to give it a boost to start your bike. You definitely cannot use the Battery Tender to maintain the Shorai battery. Furthermore, the Shorai has a very low self-discharge rate, so unless your bike has electronics that drain the battery when the bike isn't running (clock, ECU, alarm, etc.) and you don't ride at least every few weeks, charging the battery shouldn't be needed. If you ride infrequently, and have a bike that is newer than say 1990, we absolutely recommend the Shorai BMS01 battery maintenance and charging system. For long-term winter storage, you'll want to either disconnect the ground lead from the Shorai battery or use the BMS01 to maintain its charge. The Shorai BMS01 battery maintenance system charges and diagnoses each cell individually to the optimal voltage. You can use the BMS01 on a Shorai battery, as you would a 'regular charger' on a lead-acid battery." This may be of help. Or in other words you need to treat one of these in the right way as you NEED TO DO with a AGM battery as well IE 2013 thinking. |
