| Author | Message | ||
     Tootal |
So after my shortened Colorado "Backroads and Brewery Tour" I had to change my fork seals. I have mentioned that in another post but during my rebuilding I did some research on fork oils. Now I have an 06 with 07 springs. The 07 springs made a big difference but the Uly just wasn't near as smooth as my Cagiva Gran Canyon was. That bike has the best suspension of any bike I've owned and it wasn't adjustable, go figure! It had Marzocchi forks and they were beefy but man did they eat rough roads. During my research I found an article here at BadWeb with a link to a spreadsheet at RedLine oil. It showed how fork oil, although advertised by weight, were actually designated by their actual weight at 40 degrees and 100 degrees. Taking this information I went to the AMSOIL sight and looked at their numbers. I also found that Showa forks usually take a "theoretical" 5 wt. After looking at the specs for 5 wt. AMSOIL I noticed it had the most consistent numbers over the temperature ranges. This intrigued me so I ordered some. Now I've read on here that some folks move up to a 15 wt. trying to get less dive or to stiffen up their suspension. If I was riding on a race track I would probably do the same but since I commute through city streets with frost heaves and pot holes I was much more concerned with the forks being too stiff. I had both screws wide open on the forks and the preload set per 07 specs for my weight. On these roads it would beat my wrist harshly. So I thought I'd try some thinner fluid so I could adjust down some. Well this was one brain fart that actually transformed the suspension. I put the screws at their respective half way points and left the preload alone. This made a huge difference but I could still feel some of the smaller irregularities in the road. I backed off on the preload so I have all six lines showing. I opened the rebound screws another half turn and the compression screws a half turn. Wow, this feels so much like the Marzocchi forks it's amazing. It just floats over really bad roads yet at high speeds it doesn't feel wallowy, although if I really pushed it I might have to tighten it up a little but mainly in the rear. At least for my commute it's way better and I'm really looking forward to trying it off road, hopefully at Buelltoberfest. Just thought I'd throw that out there for anybody with the same issues. Most seem happy with the stock set up and maybe my problem was an internal difference, who knows. I just know my wrist feel much better. | ||
| Etennuly |
That is cool Greg. I hope to see you at Buelltoberfest. Since you have successfully experimented with your forks I have a question for you. When I replaced my fork seals I used HD's stock replacement fork oil, I still run the stock '06 springs which I am happy with. I refilled the forks according to the measurements found in the book and here. It feels like it has air in it at the beginning of it's movement. When the bike sets on the side stand it is noticeable when standing it up right. It just free compresses about a half inch or so. On the road it seems fine although not as good as when it was new. I am thinking it is just short of having enough oil in them. It is possible that I may have read the specs for XB non Uly forks. I did it a year ago, for what ever reason I do not recall things like this that far back.  | ||
| Mnrider |
Thanks Tootal. How much fork oil did you end up using with the 07 springs? I think I used about 18 oz when I did my fork seals with the stock 06 springs. | ||
| Tootal |
Vern, The air is part of the compression mode. Since air will compress, it is the beginning of the compression mode. For small irregularities it will sop them up to the point where the hydraulics will take over. It's there by design. When you pull it off the sidestand it should drop down an inch or so. This is as it should be. If it doesn't do that then you have problems. That was part of my problem, it was just too stiff. Looking forward to campfires and mason jars! I'll bring the Yeungling! | ||
| Etennuly |
Thanks for your reply Greg. 'preciate it!  Back there a hundred years ago or so.....in my day..... we used to drain half of the oil out of the forks, drill and thread the caps for air fittings, install an equalizer hose with air fitting between them and run our dirt bikes for ever without fear of ever blowing fork seals again. We could also instantly and easily adjust fork stiffness with compressed air. It was a cool hot-rod mod for our, 'big at the time', 7" travel forks that came on our mid '70s XL Hondas. | ||
| Tootal |
MnRider, I think it was 16 oz. but I made the mistake of measuring from the top of the inner tube. The picture in the book looks like you are measuring from the same tube your spring is in. I had the first one together and went back and reread the manual and noticed they said to measure from the top of the outer tube. They don't show the outer tube in the picture!! I had to take it apart and add some more fluid! This meant I had to remove the spring. I let it drip for a while but I'm sure I lost a little oil that way. In the end I used 1 quart for both forks and I was at the correct height for my 07 springs. Another thing to consider is that on the fork with the leaking seal I disassembled the whole fork to clean any grit that might have made it past the seal. This fork was cleaned in a hot tank, rinsed with hot water and blown dry. I then rinsed it again with alcohol to remove any moisture and blew it dry again. The other fork I just drained and pumped the shaft until it was empty and let it drain overnight but I'm sure there was some residual oil clinging to the surfaces so for me to say exactly how much oil is used in each fork would be only a guess. | ||
| Motorfish |
Nice write up Tootal. Now, you are using 10wt., correct? What is your weight, if you don`t mind me asking? | ||
| Uly_man |
I do not know about any of that as to much going on. But? Take no notice at all of the 06 bikes book setup as it is way out even with the 07 springs. The later ones are better though. A setup is ALWAYS for the bikes "rider" and there style no matter who or what make bike. Setup is ALWAYS to get the preload right first. It seems to be critical on the Ulys and maybe due to bikes steep fork angle. All the Ulys have a soft front dive. I added 10ml per fork of heavy oil in the 06 bike and 5ml in the 2010 bike on top of the OEM fluid. Adjusted settings, no dive and the best handling I have ever had on a bike bar none. And I have had most of them. The Buell way - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctin21yrfcA | ||
| Tootal |
Motorfish, I'm using Amsoil 5wt and probably weigh about 225 in gear. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Vern - I was completely content with the 06 springs too. Until I put in the 07s. | ||
| Arcticktm |
Vern, I doubt you missed this, but just a check that you pumped the forks part way through refilling to make sure you filled the internals with fork oil before making the final measurement. My '06 has the '07 springs, so I use the '07 recommended oil height settings (maybe slightly more oil as I don't like crazy fork dive on braking). I do recall using nearly a full 16oz bottle, though. | ||
| Uly_man |
5wt is light, 10wt is medium and 15wt is heavy oil. HD "E" is said to be a "light-medium" oil so could be 7.5wt maybe? The thicker the oil the slower it will pass through the holes/plates/etc inside the suspension. Heat, wear, age of the parts will, of course, affect the system as well. The air gap is a form of suspension in itself. Each fork takes about 8oz. And you MUST pump out all the air on a re-build or you will have a bad feeling system. I have to say I have not noticed anything new between the 06 and 2010 forks on mine. Both are great with the added oil. The 43mm forks are big enough and not sure why the "huge" 47mm ones are needed. A "road" setup will not be very good for serious "off road" stuff. Dry Green lane/Fire roads might be ok but thats about it for a Uly as you will need "knobby" rubber as well. Have fun though. | ||
| Tootal |
Well like I said, I like a soft suspension to soak up the crappy roads in my area. I'm sure when I get to Buelltoberfest I might have to do some adjusting, and that's ok. I'll have a nice soft cruise on the interstate getting there and then just crank down a little for serious twisties! I just put it in a range that "I" like and just wanted to throw that out there for anybody that feels the same as I do. It's a lot like beer and women. That's why they make so many varieties!! | ||
| Gringo |
just had to change seal in left fork on my xt cause it sprung a leak. on the streets here i often bottom out the forks and or rear shock. ive got 8 1/2 turns on preload and weigh 190 which ought to put it in the hard range. so whats wrong here? should i look into heavier oil in forks, im using hd e type. and if i go to 15 wt, what exactly is that, hydraulic jack oil or fork oil from bike shop etc? | ||
| Tootal |
I assume you're bottoming out on the rear and 8.5 turns is not that much. I'd try 12 turns and see if it's any better. Also, it may feel like your bottoming out when your compression might be set too far closed making it feel like it's bottoming. That's a lot of suspension to bottom out unless you're jumping curbs or something. I would try opening the compression screw a whole turn and take a ride and see what it feels like. If it's worse put it back and raise the preload to 12 turns and try it. If better then raise it some more, if worse, put it back. Remember to try only one thing at a time and keep a record of what you've done. It's all trial and error. I wouldn't go to 15 wt. until I exhausted all the other options. | ||
| Gringo |
tootal, thanks, i cranked the front down one more turn and it feels great. back side im gonna put on a spare shock and see how it goes. the one im using is with a lowering collar and that might be too short for the spring. | ||
| Uly_man |
People? Do yourself a good turn. Learn and understand your suspension. It will make for a MUCH better ride, save you money and will serve you well in the future. This bike has great suspension and you will be truly amazed at what it can do. |
