| Author | Message | ||
     Bluey |
Am I giving it too much throttle,too quick???Getting knocks and pings! Brand new XB12S...Trying to get used to the fuel injection. I think I'm overdoing the throttle...Anyone??? | ||
| Signguyxb12 |
simple... bad gas or bad timing | ||
| M1combat |
That doesn't happen when I overdo the throttle... Do you let it sit and idle for a long time? I did once and got some pinging at low RPM's for a little while until it cooled off. Another thing MIGHT be an out of adjustment cam position sensor??? Let someone else second that before you do anything though, it's unlikely. | ||
| Trenchtractor |
If you are running the race ECM... Well too bad seems to be the answer. If it's the stock ECM, take it back to the dealer and have it fixed under warrantee. Don't mess with stuff yourself 'cos they won't cover you. | ||
| Opto |
Ditto what Trench said. This is what a plug looks like after some pinging, it's done 6000 miles from new in my XB12, I've done all I can to prevent it including getting the timing set by the dealer, backing off the throttle the instant I heard pinging, removing race ecm, using octane booster. Then Winter came and it's OK. I'll be retarding the timing next summer. I'm not in a hurry to see the combustion chamber:  | ||
| Opto |
Under 4X magnification it looks like slivers of alloy hanging off the outer electrode  | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Hey Opto, we got 98RON Fuel in Townsville!!! Would you believe it?? I heard it's got a lot to do with the Mazda RX8 needing 98RON minimum, so the local Mazda boys laid on a bit of pressure in BP's way, now we get BP Ultimate. No more running Octane booster!! Yippie. Flip side is it was $1.08/L yesterday. Good thing I only need 11L at a time... But I digress... Same here, I'm worried that when the hot days in tropical north queensland start up again the pinging will return. I know it'll never be as bad as it was through last summer, since I've gotten rid of that pesky race ecm. | ||
| Hogs |
On my 12r I notice it will ping more in the warmer temps. only throughout the day,at cooler night temps here no pings, also if I keep it reving high when I hit it NOt " lugging the engine " it won`t ping only if I`m crusing and then HIT it will ping,, so I always drop it a gear and away I go,.. I also use a fuel additive booster.. | ||
| Bluey |
Chris...You hit it on the head...thanx!!  | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
I have 2500 miles on My 12r, and just this week, under somewhat high temps, (more muggy, humid, temps around high 80's low 90's, after running for 20 mins, hwy, I'd twist it up from around 3800 to 4200, I could hear some pinging. This was repeatable the following day, again, right around 4 grand, not wrapping the throttle, but just a twist for acceleration. I run 93 octane gas, have ridden on hotter days in past, two up, first time I had this was this week. Any ideas? Thanks | ||
| Odie |
I live in LA (lower Alabama) and it is consistently over 100 everyday right now. The ONLY time I ever get anything close to pinging is when I'm starting from a dead stop and the car in front of me doesn't leave too quickly and I get off the throttle. I'm more lugging it than anything but just a hint of ping when real hot under these circumstances. Anything above very low engine speed under a load is great. | ||
| Hogs |
Odie I guess you are saying that with a good load on it always, and when you hit it no pinging ,and your "are or not" lugging the engine at that time?? I```m a little confused but thats normal for me these days...:-) | ||
| Odie |
No. My engine never really pings, it just lugs a little bit when I let the speed get a little too low and don't pull in the clutch and then accelerate again. Now, my '83 wideglide (shovelhead) will ping a little more than I like when it is really hot but there is no computer adjusting anything. Just a K&N, an S&S Super E carb and a tall S&S cam. Average riding or getting on it my 12S operates almost flawlessly. I did notice that the front end seems to get e little lighter after the TPS reset yesterday. The tech said that it wasn't off very much at all though. My wifes '97 Sporty didn't ping at all during hot, summer days either. I do run Amoco 93 octane and Syn3 20-50. | ||
| M1combat |
How about this? What level do you generally let your tank get to when you put fuel in? Do most of you let the light come on? Here's my theory... I generally let my fuel light come on (OK, always) and I try to use stations that have three hoses. I don't know how much fuel one of those hoses holds, but nearly everyone these days is buying low octane fuel. If you get the first hose length at low octane it will lower your octane rating a bit. If the tank is low enough to turn on the light, it's probably not going to lower it much, but if you generally fill your tank when it's only half empty as a habit, you may be running a bit lower than what you pay for. I think it shows up as an issue on our XB's because they have small tanks. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
wow, M1 you could be onto something, I regularly run through a full tank, about 2.7 to 3.2 gals prior to fill up. In the last two weeks, I have'nt been doing much riding other than a little commuting, and have "topped off " my tank just to have it full if the opportunity to go on a ride comes up. And yes, my station of choice now has those infamous single hose multi grade pumps...... hhmmmm Thanks, I'll pay attention to the next few fills and see if situation changes | ||
| Opto |
Greg, in summer on a hot day without the very very best available fuel my 12 will ping from 3000 to 4200 with medium throttle, funny it doesn't do it after 4200. I think the stock ecm ignition map leaves something to be desired to put it nicely. If my bike is not wearing an aftermarket ecm before the next summer I will be retarding the ignition timing until the pinging stops on a hot day with the lowest octane unleaded fuel I can get my hands on. I did this to my Sportster and I could not detect any seat of pants loss of power, gained heaps of peace of mind. | ||
| Whodom |
Another thing I've noticed in ~33 years of buying gasoline is that all brands are NOT created equal. You may find that Brand X premium pings like hell while Brand Y premium works great. Try some different brands and see if you can find one that works best. M1's got a really good point about the 3 hose versus single hose pump arrangements. I'll bet the pump and hose hold at least 1 gallon or so, if you're inadvertently mixing 1 gallon of 87 octane with ~2 gallons of 93, you're only getting 91 octane in your tank. The less gas you put in, the worse this effect is. | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
Opto, Thanks for the input, seems to be same situation in which I experience the ping. who.. as long as I am on a local jaunt, I always use the same fuel, if on the road, I try to use a quality station, Amoco/BP, Shell, Exxon, I really do believe the single hose deal is a possible problem. Thanks guys, Greg | ||
| BadS1 |
Those hoses don't hold extra gas in them. | ||
| Bluey |
The hoses don't have anything to do with it!!! Shell sucks! I changed Stations(Sunoco)and I am now running great. A lot of these stations are putting a lower grade gas in the higher octane pumps. BEWARE OF HABIB!! | ||
| Trevxb12 |
ive been having the pinging for a couple months. no luck with help from the dealer. so i guess it will detonate big and then i get a new motor, big bore possibly!!! | ||
| Trenchtractor |
Don't count on that, Trev. Funny, six months ago my dealer was telling me no one else was having this problem. I told him that when the american summer started that a whole heap of guys would start having this problem... Hate to say it but I told you so *(actually, i enjoyed saying that) My advice, run the absolute best grade fuel. Experiment with different depots. and GET RID OF ANY RACE ECM, it'll lean some of the 12's out for some reason. At least it did mine. | ||
| BadS1 |
My 12 has the Race ECM in it,and it runs fine always has.So you can't just up say get rid of the Race ECM cause that may not be the cure. | ||
| M1combat |
And probably isn't the cure... BadS1 - How can the hose NOT hold fuel in it? Do the pumps suck the fuel back out of the hose after each customer? | ||
| Bomber |
also check the pump (or station itself) for notices about additives -- along with the witch's brew of no-lead, oxegenatorsw and the like that Chicago area stations are forced to use, methanol and ethanol are also found often (usually stated to be 10% of the fuel) -- living in the corn belt DOES have it's down sides ;-} like has been said, try filling with different brands, they are not all created equal course, on a road trip, sometimes ya get what ya get and like it! | ||
| Deerhunter17 |
I find it hard to be the hose being at least6' long, not to mention the internal plumbing of the pump, dose not hold a significant amount of fuel,especially when you figure your only putting 2 gals or so in tank. Like I said in my situation, I have been guilty of "topping Off" my tank the last two times I got fuel, and I only noticed the ping since then. In fact, it was pronounced yesterday as I accelerated onto the highway. I've just about run the tank out, and will fill up at a station with separate hoses next time, see if a difference or not. | ||
| Whodom |
On single hose pumps the hose, meter, and changeover valving definitely contain some amount of fuel which must be "flushed out" when you change from one grade to another. The exact volume is up for debate, but it exists. A 1" I.D. 10 foot long hose would hold about 0.4 gallons. I'd say one gallon for everything probably isn't far off. Ever seen a cheap skate cut the pump off, and then drain the hose to get that extra little bit out? The next guy cuts the pump on and it runs up ~1/2 gallon before he even opens the nozzle as the hose is refilled. | ||
| M1combat |
I don't think the entire pump would be emptied into the bike... Only what is in the hose, meter and valve like deer hunter said. | ||
| BadS1 |
M1 ....Bingo you are right.My family is in the gas Biz or C-stores as some would call them.The State demands that the filters at the pump be changed periodically and I have been inside these pumps at my brothers stations.A Mobil and a Sin clair station.When we go to change these filters no gas can be beyond these or it would spill all over the ground when doing so.There is 3 filters for each type of gas that are at ground level.The filters look much like what we have on are bikes but about twice the size of a coffee can.The pumps are designed and have to push the fuel back beyond the filter.My brothers station also are both type pumps one with one hose and 3 filters and one station has 3 hoses and 3 filters but they both do the exact same thing. | ||
| Joojoo |
How could a Race ECM lean out a 12 when its MADE to rich it up a bit?? Jack |
