| Author | Message | ||
     Barkbuster |
Well after getting the 2010 rear wheel under warranty in 2010 I heard a chirp or 2 with the wife on the back today before we got out of the neighborhood. turned around and put her on the lift and removed the axle.This time the bearing failed on the brake side. The side with only 1 bearing Hoping I can fix this by next week for Dragon V the 19th. only got 20000 miles out of that bearing. the axle is toast too. | ||
| Ourdee |
Wow 2010 rear wheel bearing failure. Almost reads like you put the wife on the lift.  | ||
| Barkbuster |
 I will make the Dragon event as I have a fleabay spare rear wheel in blue but my torx t40 bit is a cheapo and started to bend trying to get the bolts off holding the brake disc on. I`ll be making trips to the tool store and bearing store to get parts this week. May take a while for the axle though.  (Message edited by barkbuster on April 08, 2012) | ||
| Pontlee77 |
A harley mechanic hammered once each bolt of the disc and then tapped in the torx bit and came off quite easy, just what he did, and they have been working with harleys for years, but they are not a dealer, they are real mechanics, not parts changers. | ||
| Uly_man |
So the magical 2010 "wonder wheel" fails AGAIN? I think this is about the 4th one I have heard of so far. In this case it looks like (always change in sets) a full set of bearings, spacer and a axle. Why is the axle toast? This sounds very weird. "only got 20000 miles out of that bearing." No you "got" 20k out of it till it failed. It might have been ok at 15k but ran on until it broke up at 20k. Check them with the wheels off the bike at 10k max. You will find it less of a problem latter on. "my torx t40 bit is a cheapo and started to bend trying to get the bolts off holding the brake disc on." The bolts have thread lock on them so do not force it or you may shear the heads off and thats a real bad problem. Trust me I know. | ||
| Uly_man |
"A harley mechanic hammered once each bolt of the disc." You dont need to be a "Hardly-do-it" mechanic to work on something as basic as this. You just use normal stuff to do it IE an impact driver and work from there. Its not a ICMB. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I just did the 2010 swap and this thread is scaring me. But anyways, a hammer driven impact driver does work perfectly for removing the pulley and rotor bolts. You're supposed to use all new bolts but I just cleaned the threads off and reused them with fresh blue stuff. | ||
| Uly_man |
"I just did the 2010 swap and this thread is scaring me." No need to be scared Dude. The bike is just a normal piece of mechanical engineering. No "magic", xtra-special skills or "I do-Buells and think I know better than you" is needed. If you treat the bike with respect and look after it (as with any other bike) then you should have no problem. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Barkbuster, Can you give us some more detail please? To many of us, this info is vital. The bearing problem is a bit complex and every little thing matters in order to form a logical evaluation. First, when you ordered your 2010 wheel, did it come with the bearings and spacers installed? Where did you get it, if I may ask? I have more but it depends somewhat on your answers... Thanks a bunch, this is important. Dan. | ||
| Teeps |
Installation of the bearings and axle torque are the major considerations; after water intrusion, IMO. | ||
| Danair |
They lost the spacer on my new 2010 wheel and I tried mounting it before I noticed it. Right as the WTF was leaving my lips, the dealer called and said "we found a spacer on the tire machine...is it yours?" Just mounting it causes the stub on the axle to hit the seal and ruins it without that spacer....never even rotated the wheel. After they found the spacer, I installed it without replacing that seal. Maybe 500 miles later I got the seals from Al but it was too late. FOD. Man is that bearing a bitch to get out. I've seen pictures here of one other guy that did the same thing. | ||
| Motorbike |
I think we still need to know if Barkbuster's 2010 wheel and bearings were installed by a real mechanic with tools and knowledge or if they were just pounded in by a "hammer mechanic". Also, the 2010 wheel design is not immune to over-tightening the rear axle and crushing the spacer inside the hub. The spacer is made of the same material as the pre-2010 design. We need facts please. Thank you. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Designing a wheel with that second, 'thin', external spacer seems very questionable to me and did when I first got my 2010 wheel. Since then I've read of at least two times when the wheel was installed and the thin, external spacer was accidentally left off! Why complicate the wheel, and future maintenance/service with that?????? (Message edited by buellerxt on April 10, 2012) | ||
| Barkbuster |
Right Buellerxt I think the spacer is the culprit. I didn`t ride much in the rain and never power washed the bike but that spacer is almost too thin for the seal to stay sealed on it,and it let dirt in. The original failure was the drive side and the drive side on this wheel seems fine. I was just going to replace the axle,seal and bearing but am now going to do the whole wheel with a new kit from American Sport Bike since he has em in stock. The Axle was bad because the inner race spun on the axle and damaged it under the bearing so it will not support a new bearing. I got the bolts out with heat and a hand impact, that blue loctite works almost too good. Got an hour left before I go to work and still gotta get the spare wheel on and I want to take the bike, l8r guys  | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
buellerxt, This is not a safe forum to ever question what Buell engineers have done. | ||
| Motorbike |
Even if the new external seals fail or are damaged, there is still a good seal on the new oversized bearings that should keep it going for quite a while. The external seal is just there to prevent water and dust from getting at the good seal on the bearing. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Not quite Electraglider... its fine to question (and improve, has been done many times) things Buell or Harley engineers have done. It's just not a safe forum to be stupid and rude. | ||
| Garrcano |
Maybe a stupid idea, but why not make the spacers with stainless steel? I don't think it's only a question of weight and I don't know if there is an interaction between metals or if it's a type of axle and threads protection. | ||
| Barkbuster |
First, when you ordered your 2010 wheel, did it come with the bearings and spacers installed? Where did you get it, if I may ask? No the wheel came without the bearings and the dealer mechanic installed the bearings then dismounted my tire and installed it on the new wheel. All this was done at the dealer I bought the bike from. Hal`s Harley-Buell in New Berlin,Wi.They used to be a sponsor here but seem to be gone now. | ||
| Barkbuster |
43ftlbs is all I ever torqued it too.Don`t seem like much but its enough. | ||
| Conchop |
Seems to me that the spring loaded belt tensioner from Trojan slows this bearing failure progression. If you ever noticed, when you hit a big swag in the road and the vibration increases from the belt tightening and pulling the front engine isolator tight - well IMHO that is putting a lot of unnatural pull on those bearings. Other than that, its obvious that bigger beefier bearings are called for. | ||
| Uly_man |
"its fine to question (and improve, has been done many times) things Buell or Harley engineers have done." I would and will now? Why is it that I needed rears on my 06 bike and fronts on my 2010 bike on the 5k service. It was because the axle was torqued up to tight, over crushed the spacer which then pushed the inner race out of alinement with the outer race. Something I suspect is done over and over again by other people as well. I also suspect that the book torque numbers are to high for the wheels as well. They are for many other parts of the bike in my opinion and I do not follow them anymore. Wheel bearings like SKF are built to a std/grade and used on many other bikes with no problems. The seals are not waterproof but they are not a problem with normal bike use. "The Axle was bad because the inner race spun on the axle and damaged it under the bearing so it will not support a new bearing." This is very serious. The inner race ring is held in place by the spacers. Something is not right here. Sounds like the wheel was not put together right in the first place. On the other hand you should have noticed something wrong with it before it failed. Its ok to run somethings until they fail but not wheel bearings on a bike. Its the sort of thing that could and does cause pain/death. Check everything before each ride to be sure all is safe and NEVER EVER trust anyone who has worked on your bike. Trust me Guys I know what can happen. (Message edited by uly_man on April 11, 2012) | ||
| Motorbike |
I really don't believe that tightening the rear axle to 50 ft-lbs should crush the spacer if everything else is done properly. (Torque to 25 ft-lbs., back off 2 turns, torque to 50 ft-lbs.) 50 ft-lbs. is not all that much, considering you are just pushing steel races against each end of an aluminum spacer tube. Thanks. | ||
| Uly_man |
Fair enough. This is very good information. The compression ratio of alloys vary by composition and knowing the grade used, for a given torque setting is key to how much the spacer will compress on the first torque-up. Technical insight such as this is a rare event. (Message edited by uly_man on April 11, 2012) | ||
| Ratbuell |
OK, now I'm wondering...what external spacer? I put a '10 wheel on my 06 with the last tire change. Got it from Al, bearings pre-installed, and don't recall any pieces in the box other than the wheel (with bearings and spacer in it) and the axle. Am I now screwed? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
The spacer tucks under the outer seal on the brake side. It comes out easily but it comes in there from Al. It's only about 1/8" wide. In other words, you're probably good to go. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I went and looked at the bike. Brake side bearing is spaced away from the swingarm by about 1/16" or so. I guess I'm good? The swingarm is NOT touching the bearing seal, only the inner race - or, I guess, that spacer on the inner race. | ||
| Froggy |
Rat, this is what happens when you are missing the spacer: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/654000.html?1317571753 | ||
| Ratbuell |
well everything installed OK and I've probably put 600-800 miles on it...so I'm gonna guess I lucked out and I'm OK  | ||
| Uly_man |
If you did not have the rotor side spacer then the bike would be going no place. Its clearly not the problem in this case. It looks like it is there so that the secondary outer seal runs on it rather than the alloy swing arm (built in) spacer. Which would be/is good engineering practice. | ||
| Danair |
Ratbuell.."I went and looked at the bike. Brake side bearing is spaced away from the swingarm by about 1/16" or so. I guess I'm good? The swingarm is NOT touching the bearing seal, only the inner race - or, I guess, that spacer on the inner race" It is impossible to even mount the rear caliper if that spacer is left out. The wheel and everything will torque but the swingarm will be squeezed together abnormally. You won't even be able to get the caliper in there, that was my 1st clue they effed up. I was terrified after doing this, hollow swingarm and all. 3k later no problems | ||
| Barkbuster |
Ok Got all my stuff yesterday and got it all put together today. Wheel was not damaged, and new bearings went in fine.Back is trashed so didn`t get the other new parts on but will finish tomorrow. New front motor mount and rear muffler clamps, plus a k&n to go with the drummer. So after looking at the old parts the axle has a groove worn in it the width of the bearing yet its not from the bearing spinning as i 1st thought.The spacer has always been there so the bearing could not spin on the axle. The crush tube was worn on its outer diameter like it may have been floating and not clamped which could mean the bearing was not fully pressed in on the brake side so maybe the mechanic didn`t install it right in the 1st place.Or the axle was not anodized right and was soft where the bearing sits on it. I did not get the extended warranty and mine expired last November.I`m sure their in right now as my crush tube was tight between the bearings now but will be keeping a close eye on it as time goes on. The tire will be used up in a month or so, so its coming apart again soon. Will be breaking it in at deals gap thur. thru Sun. next week at Dragon V so maybe some folks here will be there. (Message edited by barkbuster on April 14, 2012) | ||
| Barkbuster |
Got pics of my 2010 axle but how do you shrink picture size? windows photo gallery is already as small as it goes and my phone camera is only 2 megapixels | ||
| Barkbuster |
A little update, pulled the wheels off and replaced the Angels with battle axe bt-023`s. A couple thousand miles since replacing the rear wheel bearings, This axle is showing no symptoms of the 1st one so things look good for now. I`m suspecting the 1st axle wasn`t hard enough like the anodizing was flawed. Liking these tires too! |
