| Author |
Message |
    
Jcs64
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 21, 2011 - 09:41 pm: | 
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HUh?
just getting into the ecm spy thing w/ my "new to me" '00 X1
Its running a race ecm and I noticed the AFV is @ 150% (I didnt reset it yet.)
To be safe and have a back up, I bought a stock ecm to "play around with". I plugged it in and reset the TPS (the stored AFV for that ecm was @ 104%), well, it just didnt want to start or run! So I changed the AFV on the stocker to 150% and she fired right up and responded great w/ the throttle, Tried it again @ 100% and it was crap.
Could it be the free flowing air filter and Kooks exhaust need 50% more fuel?
I sprayed the intake manifold w/ cleaner while it was running and found no leaks so Im going to rule that out for now. The bike runs great except at a steady cruise and light throttle it wants to break up or miss a little.
I really look forward to learning more about tunning this, and appreciate any and all help.
Jeff |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 10:53 am: |
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When you say "break up or miss while cruising" you probably mean at about the 3,600 rpm range, give or take. A lot of X1 Lightning's do that at about that rpm range.
Regarding the AFV value being at 150, is that only during a cold startup? What does it read when you pull in to the garage after a good heat soak on the engine (xx miles)? |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Thursday, December 22, 2011 - 05:56 pm: |
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Id say the stumbling is more around 2500rpm (30-40mph city streets)
Im OK w/ that trait for now, Im kinda just trying to figure out why the ecm would be wanting 150% for the afv.
Your question on my AFV's time frame has me confused. Im still learning here but the way I read it, The AFV applies to the entire map once its stored no matter hot or cold. But there is a 'cold start enrichment' number that comes into play during start up. I dont think one affects the other but like I said, Im still learning.
SO could it be the higher flowing parts (aircleaner/ exhaust) calling for more fuel? And is the fix to add fuel to the maps or just leave the AFV at 150%
Thanks, Jeff |
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 11:36 am: |
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Jeff:
I've never had the opportunity to use ecm spy, but on the 1125r that I have, AFV is always around 100, according to the instrument cluster.
I'd say make a copy of what you have stored in your ecm at the moment. Your race ecm should be set up for the needs of your exhaust and intake mods.
Your TPS reset will take some time to adjust. Here is what the manual says about a TPS calibration...
1.) Remove air cleaner cover and backplate.
2.) Back out idle screw to make sure throttle plate is in the fully closed position.
3.) Open and slowly close throttle control grip 3-5 times. Do not allow throttle to snap shut.
4.) Attach Scanalyzer to data link (See 4.4 SCANALYZER).
5.) Calibrate TP sensor using Scanalyzer.
a.) From Diagnostic Menu, press "7" to display Calibration Menu.
b.) Press "1" to activate TPS Zero Function.
c.) Press "Enter" to verify throttle plate is fully closed. Scanalyzer will then calibrate sensor. See Figure 4-85.
6.) Verify that TP sensor is calibrated.
a.) From the Scanalyzer Diagnostic Menu, press "3" to enter Data Monitor Menu.
b.) Scroll down menu to find TP voltage. If voltage reads approximately 0.5-1.5 volts at idle, TP sensor is properly calibrated.
NOTE:
TP sensor voltage at hot idle will vary according to position of idle set screw.
7.) Disconnect Scanalyzer from motorcycle.
8.) Install air cleaner backplate and cover.
You'll have to figure out with ECM Spy the step by step procedure to translate the above info. Basically, you are telling your race ECM when the throttle plate is fully closed (backing out the idle screw for as close to 0.0 VDC as you can get) and when you set the idle screw that voltage will increase slightly as noted above. Your TP sensor is a 0.0-5.0 VDC sensor, so the input via the throttle cable is what changes the voltage to the ECM.
150 sounds really high for the adjusted value that your maps are set to.
I'm sorry that I can't give you an easier way to check that voltage. |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 12:01 pm: |
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Thanks,
Ive got the TPS reset thing down, and its pretty much the same for the ecmspy.
I would love to see some one elses dialed in fuel map/maps just to see if my #'s really are too low.
Is there a better spot to post ECMSPY questions? Im sure alot of people here use it and know the setup.
(not knocking your help Two_seasons, just looking for more info).
thanks, jeff |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, December 23, 2011 - 12:09 pm: |
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The AFV will vary depending on the tune, altitude, weather and so on, but typically will be in the 90-110 range. 150% is excessively high, and odds are that it would add more if the pre-programmed limit was higher.
You do indeed have an issue, it could be clogged injectors not flowing enough gas, fuel pump failing and not flowing enough gas, a bad fuel map (needs the right tune anyway, but I doubt you would of hit 150% if that was the only issue), or an O2 sensor issue (reporting wrong values causing bike to think its lean). I do believe your issue is fuel delivery related. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2011 - 10:39 am: |
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The AFV has nothing to do with engine temperature. As for fuel delivery, given that the bike seems to run OK with higher AFV, I doubt if the fuel pump and/or injectors are faulty. My suggestion is to put the Race ECM back on and do a proper TPS reset. Also set the AFV to 100%. If the bike does not start/run, increase the AFV in increments of 10% until the bike runs well. Ride the bike for a little while and see if it changes. If it doesn't change at all, then check to make sure the AFV range is not set (in ECMSPY) to a specific value. It should be something between 95 and 120. If it goes up then you either have an intake leak and/or your maps are not the same as original Race maps. You may also want to check your static timing. I believe bad injector o-rings can also cause the AFV to go above normal. |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Saturday, December 24, 2011 - 09:35 pm: |
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Kalali-
I appreciate the the help.
I have the race ecm in there now and I have also reset the tps a couple times now.
Earlier today (before I had to deal w/ family for the hlidays,LOL), I did start dialing back the AFV and when I got to 130 I saw the o2 volts drop pretty low so I figured it was going too lean and brought it back up to 140.
Riding season is disappearing quick around here w/ the amount of salt they have on the roads, but maybe monday Ill get some seat time in.
thanks, jeff |
Terrys1980
| | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 10:07 am: |
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The O2 sensor could be going bad. The AFV should not effect the O2 sensor voltage.
The O2 sensor has to reach 600 degrees for it to operate accurately, so the bike needs to be warmed up a good bit. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 11:30 am: |
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Given the additional clues, I'd change the O2 sensor. Ask for Bosch 12014, ~$20 at your local auto part store. |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Monday, December 26, 2011 - 01:59 pm: |
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Kalali-
Now thats the kind of info I love to find!
To be able to cut out the stealership and get that o2 at the parts store, Ill go get it today just to try it.
Thanks, Jeff |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2011 - 08:25 pm: |
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just went and got the o2 sensor from Advanced auto (yup, $20). Fittment is for a'94 chevy camaro V6 just incase anyone was wondering.
Bad news for me is the weather barely broke 20 degrees today so any future tunning will have to wait. I will try it this weekend to see how fast the volts are switching.
I still would love to see a good tuned fuel map to see how far off my #'s are.
thanks, jeff |
Kalali
| | Posted on Saturday, December 31, 2011 - 11:47 am: |
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Drop me a PM and I'll send you my current maps. You can then open two instances of the ECMSpy and do a side by side stare n compare.. |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Monday, January 16, 2012 - 09:33 pm: |
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I have the opposite problem on my '99. My AFV goes to 70. Could be a similar cause. |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 07:42 pm: |
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A great update!
yesterday the X1 started running like CRAP and threw a lean code, I got it home and found the rear cylinder was dead. After checking the plugs some things started to make since to me. Yes there was spark on both cyl. but the front was looking rich and the rear was WHITE. Hmmm, the o2 sensors on the rear cyl.,the rear injector hasnt been supplying fuel. Therefore the O2 has been reading lean and upping the AFV to 150 even though it was only adding more to the front cyl.
So I pulled the injectors and flushed them out while testing them w. ecmspy. After getting them to both fire nicely, I buttoned everything up and tried to start it. No go, it fired up but idled rough and died. To keep it running I would have to give it some throttle. As I feathered the throttle to keep it alive, I reset the AFV to 100%. It settled into a nice lope and I new this had been what I was fighting all along.
I suited up and hit the rd for a quick spin and it ran freakin great! After getting back home I checked the AFV and it was still at 100% , wohoo!
Finally something has worked out,
Jeff |
Jcs64
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 07:44 pm: |
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A great update!
yesterday the X1 started running like CRAP and threw a lean code, I got it home and found the rear cylinder was dead. After checking the plugs some things started to make since to me. Yes there was spark on both cyl. but the front was looking rich and the rear was WHITE. Hmmm, the o2 sensors on the rear cyl.,the rear injector hasnt been supplying fuel. Therefore the O2 has been reading lean and upping the AFV to 150 even though it was only adding more to the front cyl.
So I pulled the injectors and flushed them out while testing them w. ecmspy. After getting them to both fire nicely, I buttoned everything up and tried to start it. No go, it fired up but idled rough and died. To keep it running I would have to give it some throttle. As I feathered the throttle to keep it alive, I reset the AFV to 100%. It settled into a nice lope and I new this had been what I was fighting all along.
I suited up and hit the rd for a quick spin and it ran freakin great! After getting back home I checked the AFV and it was still at 100% , wohoo!
Finally something has worked out,
Jeff |
Mstrfrz
| | Posted on Saturday, March 24, 2012 - 11:03 pm: |
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Congratulations. I'm still fighting a low AFV despite new almost everything. Doing ok right now, because the O2 is disconnected, keeping the AFV at 100. |
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AFV is at 150