| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
And I'm still trying to wrap my brain around HOW the Aprilia qualifies as a "CRT" and not a Factory prototype?? The latest version of the Aprilia (or ART as they insist on calling it) CRT bike does look very different to the RSV4 at last. In fact it looks uncannily like a 250GP Aprilia. While they stick to the idea of selling bikes to teams it still fits the CRT premise. However if they decide to start leasing bikes then it becomes a whole different ball game and they really should be classed as factory bikes. I think it will depend on their results as to how they are viewed by the organisers long term. Apparently the bikes running this week at Jerez have the 'older' chain driven cam engine fitted instead of the gear driven cam engine, so there is more to come yet I think. Ellisons ART bike still has steel brake discs fitted and is allegedly running a stock RSV4 motor! Who was the better racer; Kenny Roberts or Barry Sheene? Now there is a whole thread all to itself! Difficult to answer dispassionately simply because both have massive fan bases and the general consesus here will probably plump for Roberts even if only for nationality. I would have to say Sheene simply because he tended to have inferior equipment to Roberts most of the time at GP level, but still managed to win world championships and continued winning classic races right up to his untimely death. However Roberts brought a whole new style to road racing and Yamaha brought a lot more professionalism into the sport with him, when most GP riders (including Sheene) were still working out of the back of a van. In reality they were both extremely evenly matched but from entirely different backgrounds, so making comparisons is very difficult. Comparing riders from any era on different machinery is always going to generate huge argument though  | ||
| Blake |
Jaime, Because the rules-declarers say so. Matt, Didn't mean to compare AMA veteran victories to BSB wildcard wins at UK venues of WSBK, only to BSB veteran victories at Laguna Seca WSBK events. Interesting that Haga and Bayliss were BSB veterans and Corser was AMA. Sure would be nice to have all the SBK series running the same tech and tire rules. The tire issue would seem the most difficult to overcome. Only workable solution would be to allow wildcards to run on whatever tire they choose. | ||
| Crusty |
Wasn't there one year where the AMA Superbikes were turning faster lap times at Laguna Seca because the WSB bikes had to run spec Pirellis, and there were no spec rules in place yet in the AMA? | ||
| Blake |
I wouldn't doubt it. Dunlop pretty much owns AMA SBK tracks. Pirelli puts up a good fight though. | ||
| Trojan |
The tire issue would seem the most difficult to overcome. Only workable solution would be to allow wildcards to run on whatever tire they choose. The tyre issue used to be the biggest single difference between WSB and national superbike series, but now it is the dreaded electronics that make the biggest difference, as well as vastly different tuning rules now in force in different series.AMA (and lately BSB) have redueced the number of internal engine parts than can be upgraded or changed compared to WSB, and the electronics are different too. BSB now uses a spec Pirelli tyre similar to the WSB tyre so that isn't too much of an issue. John Hopkins put the BSB spec Suzuki on pole at Silverstone last year and ran with the leading pack for a while until his tyres went off. One of the biggest reasons for then falling off the pace was his electronics were not as sophisticated as the WSB bikes and couldn't compensate for tyre wear as the race wore on like they could. It will be interesting to see how the Crescent Suzuki team manage in WSB this year as they are using the same Motec electronics as they did in BSB (with some extras I think!), unlike pretty much everyone else who is running Marelli kit. BMW are still the exception in that they run their own electronics. | ||
| Bads1 |
1. Casey Stoner AUS Repsol Honda 2m 1.761s (Lap 8/16) 2. Dani Pedrosa ESP Repsol Honda 2m 2.005s (12/29) 3. Jorge Lorenzo ESP Yamaha Factory Racing 2m 2.436s (14/22) 4. Ben Spies USA Yamaha Factory Racing 2m 2.819s (12/23) 5. Alvaro Bautista ESP San Carlo Honda Gresini 2m 2.959s (15/24) 6. Nicky Hayden USA Ducati Team 2m 3.132s (21/30) 7. Cal Crutchlow GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2m 3.213s (16/27) 8. Valentino Rossi ITA Ducati Team 2m 3.245s (22/26) 9. Hector Barbera ESP Pramac Racing 2m 3.612s (11/24) 10. Stefan Bradl GER LCR Honda 2m 3.820s (16/24) 11. Andrea Dovizioso ITA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2m 3.830s (12/14) 12. Franco Battaini ITA Ducati Test Rider 2m 5.563s (10/11) 13. Colin Edwards USA Forward Racing (Suter-BMW CRT) 2m 5.686s (15/15) 14. Ivan Silva ESP Avintia (FTR-Kawasaki CRT) 2m 8.479s (18/19) 15. Yonny Hernández COL Avintia (FTR-Kawasaki CRT) 2m 8.767s (8/16) | ||
| Trojan |
Make the most of day two test times, as it is probably the only time this year we will see 4 Yamahas at the top of the timesheets! All of the Hondas were grounded for the day because of a mystery electronics/engine failure on Pedrosas bike yesterday, so none of the factory or satellite Hondas got on track all day. Weather was again poor and testing was abandoned by lunch time with little work and few laps done by all concerned, although everyone that did get on track was considerably quicker than Monday. Ducati continue to test electronic strategies with no attempts at fast times yet apparently...We'll see  Colin Edwards made a big improvement but is still 4.5 seconds off the back on the NGM/Suter/BMW, so I think the CRT bikes to watch this year will all be Aprillias....Sorry ART's. Unfortunately none of them were atthis test, so we'll have to wait until the final test before we see them on track with the prototypes to judge exactly how close Randy De Puniet and theother ART pilots will be (or otherwise). 1Spies B.Yamaha Factory Racing2:01.285 2Lorenzo J.Yamaha Factory Racing+0.008 3Dovizioso A.Monster Yamaha Tech 3+0.237 4Crutchlow C.Monster Yamaha Tech 3+0.410 5Hayden N.Ducati Team+0.463 6Barbera H.Pramac Racing Team+0.704 7Rossi V.Ducati Team+0.845 8Battaini F.Cardion AB Motoracing+2.281 9Edwards C.NGM Mobile Forward Racing+4.531 10Silva I.Avintia Racing | ||
| 46champ |
Trojan which race tracks have the prototypes been closest to running out of fuel? The reason I'm asking is Dorna has said they will give the CRT bikes any amount of fuel they need. Is there any tracks where they could run the prototypes out of gas? | ||
| Jaimec |
I can't remember the tracks, but I do remember Dani Pedrosa losing power and going backwards at the end of one race because his bike's computer started leaning out the mixture in order to have enough fuel to finish the race. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Hello everybody !!!!!! Randy De Puniet is going to be the underdog this year !!! Ducati is starting to get worried that the ARTs will be faster than their prototypes. For sure Aprilia has more experience for its RCV4 in WSBK , that Ducati has with their new FTR chassis. And looking at Rossi's current form , DePuniet might be faster than any of the current Ducati riders..... | ||
| Bads1 |
Ducati is starting to get worried that the ARTs will be faster than their prototypes Please!!!! can I have a link to where this is being said??? Cause I kinda doubt it highly | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Do you think it is impossible to happen ??? | ||
| Bads1 |
As of now..... no. Sorry they are doing horrible and they need alot of time to sort and develop. Racing will help. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I think that you are not well reported..... The Aprilia ARTs did great at Jerez.............. http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/176974/1/de_punie t_puts_crt_on_motogp_pace_at_jerez.html | ||
| Bads1 |
The times speak for them selves. I'm reported just fine. I said of right now.They have along ways to go. | ||
| Jaimec |
There is still a big difference between dicing with the satellite bikes, and dicing with the full-factory prototypes. But the ART bike (a thinly-disguised Aprilia MotoGP prototype) will definitely start out on a stronger footing than the other CRT bikes. What do you expect when ONE manufacturer can design the chassis around the engine they ALSO produce? Everyone else is sourcing the engine from one company, and the chassis from another. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
We cannot blame Aprilia for producing a superb SBK package, that seems to perform well, with a few modifications, compared to motoGP standards. Their ART engine can be claimed for 20,000Euros from any factory team. So noone should complain.......... DePuniet was just 0.3s off Barbera's time in Jerez. Reading through the words, the ART seems to handle better than the FTR-Ducati, it is just down on power. Next test , the ART will have a stronger motor, so it looks very promising. The motoGP world might experience a huge surprise very soon. For me.... I root Aprilia & Randy for 2012 !!!! The ultimate underdog, both the bike and the rider.....Now put into the mix Randy's woman http://laurenvickers.com/, and he will be definately on fire this year....... Who can blame him ??? | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan which race tracks have the prototypes been closest to running out of fuel? The reason I'm asking is Dorna has said they will give the CRT bikes any amount of fuel they need. Is there any tracks where they could run the prototypes out of gas? I doubt if anyone will get close to running out of fuel anywhere this year, although I think Silverstone would probably be the most likely place if anywhere. Teams computer calculate exactly how much fuel they need down to the last drop, and modern electronics will lean off the mixture and adjust the power if the bike is going to get close to running out. Silverstone could be a fly in the ointment though, as it is the longest lap of the season and the track is very open and susceptible to sudden weather changes. A strong headwind down the long straights could in theory mess up somebodies fuel calculations DePuniet was just 0.3s off Barbera's time in Jerez. Reading through the words, the ART seems to handle better than the FTR-Ducati, it is just down on power. I wouldn't start hanging out the ART flags just yet, even though they are the best of the CRT bikes so far. They are still over 1 second slower than Dani Pedrosa's 800cc lap time at the same track, and the 1000cc bikes are acknowleded to be faster already. The Ducati that Barbera was using is not the latest version of the FTR frame or even the latest software, so is a bit behind the factory bikes already. Add to that the fact that they had no spare bike at the test after Abraham totalled it the day before, and you could conclude that Barbera wasn't going at 100% just in case they ran out of test bikes. It wouldn't surprise me to see a few of the better ART bikes in amongst the back of the satellite early teams this year, but it would need some special circumstances like bad weather or mechanical issues to get near the factory bikes, including the Ducatis. I too would love to see RdP or James Ellison do really well this year on the ART bikes, but I don't think it is likely yet | ||
| Trojan |
Normal service is resumed on day 3.....with just one hour left to go Stoner tops the time sheets once more. Both factory Yamaha riders crashed and effectively finished the test at lunchtime apparently, although both were unhurt. Cal Crutchlow seems to have got to grips with the new 1000cc Yamaha pretty well, and it will be interesting to learn just how similar the new customer M1 is to the factory bikes of Spies and Lorenzo. Everyone is going quicker than yesterday although that isn't surprising as this is the first day without interuptions for rain. No word from Ducati on what they are testing or why they still seem a way off the rest of the factory bikes. Rossi did say he was frustated at not being able to test everything he wanted to yesterday because of rain, but no word yet today from him or the teamon todays progress, or lack of. Battaini is riding the AB Ducati in place of imjured Karel Abraham but is well of the pace of the other 'customer' prototype bikes. The good thing is that only 1 second separates 1st from 10th. Colin Edwards is again leading the CRT bikes but is still another 2 seconds + off 10th place. The two Kawasaki/FTR's are way off the pace and probably wouldn't get into the 107% qualifying window if the season started now, although they have only yesterday started to test the new Motec electronics they will use this year, having previously run with Kawasaki Superstock spec electronics. 1 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Team 2:00.473 - - 34 2 Jorge Lorenzo Yamaha Factory Racing 2:00.877 +0.404 +0.404 51 3 Cal Crutchlow Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:00.986 +0.109 +0.513 41 4 Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Team 2:01.115 +0.129 +0.642 31 5 Hector Barbera Pramac Racing Team 2:01.231 +0.116 +0.758 52 6 Alvaro Bautista San Carlo Honda Gresini 2:01.275 +0.044 +0.802 41 7 Andrea Dovizioso Monster Yamaha Tech 3 2:01.315 +0.040 +0.842 48 8 Ben Spies Yamaha Factory Racing 2:01.432 +0.117 +0.959 28 9 Stefan Bradl LCR Honda 2:01.492 +0.060 +1.019 49 10 Valentino Rossi Ducati Team 2:01.550 +0.058 +1.077 46 11 Nicky Hayden Ducati Team 2:01.609 +0.059 +1.136 40 12 Franco Battaini Cardion AB Motoracing 2:03.490 +1.881 +3.017 39 13 Colin Edwards NGM Mobile Forward Racing 2:03.681 +0.191 +3.208 39 14 Yonny Hern?ndez Avintia Racing 2:06.657 +2.976 +6.184 38 15 Ivan Silva Avintia Racing 2:06.785 +0.128 +6.312 46 | ||
| Jaimec |
Be interesting to see how long Casey can keep his cool threading through all the CRT back markers in the early part of the season. My guess: "Not very long at all" | ||
| Svh |
Edwards CRT is making some good gains. They keep chipping away at the gap to the last place prototype. Unfortunately he is the exception and it should make for some interesting racing this year. Moto/supercross always has backmarkers and it makes the race interesting. | ||
| Jaimec |
Tires may be the "Great Equalizer" this year: http://tinyurl.com/83dssf3 | ||
| Trojan |
Tires may be the "Great Equalizer" this year: It may have been a tactical mistake by Honda at the recent tests in that they did not allow any of their riders to do any full race simulations, and limited them to 4 lap runs only, probably as a consequence of Pedrosas engine failure on day one. This means that, although we all know they are fast and top the time sheets on an almost permanent basis, the question remains over the ability of the Honda and their riders to manage the new tyres over full race distance, and they have no test data to rely on in this respect. Dovizioso and Lorenzo said yesterday that the tyres start to slide a lot after a few laps and the handling changes considerably. I hope that this will make the racing closer this year, because as it stands now it seems to be a case of 'same ole same ole' again so far. Edwards CRT is making some good gains. They keep chipping away at the gap to the last place prototype. Unfortunately not fast enough. Remeber that he only looks the fastest CRT bike because the ART (Aprilias) were not at the test, nor have Gresini started testing their Honda powered CRT yet. I think when we get to the final tests of the pre-season where we have everytone running at the same track, we'll see thatt eh Suter BMW is a long way off the quickest CRT bikes and a long way from the back of the slowest prototypes. | ||
| Jaimec |
But, if Lorenzo is right, after the first four laps, everybody is going to be sliding around trying to control tire spin. If Honda's riders only did four lap stints, they never experienced what Lorenzo discovered. Electronics will play a BIG part... and Edwards has said that is where his team (at least) is WAAAY behind. | ||
| Trojan |
If Honda's riders only did four lap stints, they never experienced what Lorenzo discovered. Most interesting to me is that Honda only allowed their riders to do 4 laps MAXIMUM at a time because they are seriously worried about engine temperature or engine fragility. When Pedrosa got a warning light on monday he had been briefed beforehand to stop IMMEDIATELY and not ride back to the paddock if this happened (which would suggest to me the may have expected something like this to happen?). His engine was jetted back to Japan overnight for inspection and the whole Honda contingent missed a full days testing. That sounds like they have a serious worry to me, not just a routine minor problem that needed to be looked at. Hopefully Honda will suffer from reliability issues this year, which will at least open up the series a bit I'm sure Yamaha will be happy to pick up the pieces and tak wins however they come. | ||
| Xb1125r |
really does it matter ducati, aprilia, crt etc as long as Stoner is in the race, there is no competition. stoner should go to Yamaha next contract and be the first to win with 3 brands | ||
| Jaimec |
Did you hear about the "Twitter" dialog between Yamaha and Honda? Apparently Yamaha volunteered to send some of their engineers to Honda to "help" them diagnose the problem. Honda politely declined. http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Feb/120229taun ting.htm | ||
| Xb1125r |
you do know superbikeplanet.com is PRO HONDA . All the HONDA logos in their main page give it away. I think some of you are giving HONDA more credit then they deserve. The Rider is one in a billion | ||
| Simond |
You're saying there are 22 Casey Stoners in Australia? I hope they never get in a room together! | ||
| Jaimec |
Funny... I see mostly YAMAHA logos and art in Superbike Planet... |
