| Author | Message | ||
     Artful |
Pete, Three words, GET A LIFE, man you are consumed by a personal statement by Court about a motorcycle. I love my S3, problems and all, I waited years to buy the Buell of my dreams because I had to provide for my wife and kids first, the house, car, school etc... All this means that I got what I wanted most and I love it more because of the wait, delayed gratification (ask your GF) is great. Art..... | ||
| Travis |
Talk about an excersise in futility. We might as well be arguing about and looking for proof concerning which is the best religon. Who cares. So what? Court said he could prove it. Big deal. What can he prove. What can't he prove. Does it matter if could or could not? would it make us like our bikes less? more? Get over it. There is no one best bike. None. There is no best anything for everyone. Get used to it. Life is full of disappointment. Ya know, I'm thinkin I'll go for ride. Rubber side down. Have a nice day. | ||
| Hans |
Peter T: My Anglophiel teacher for Latin said always: "The proof for the pudding is the eating." I am still eating and never tasted a better pudding. What "proof" do you mean? Things of beauty and taste can`t be proofed being better. Better has here also the meaning of the jury of roses winners choosing litterally the "best" rose. The rose with the most beautifull color, the "best" smell, the best harmony of leaves and flower, the most beuatifull way the rose is unfolded till full bloom, and very important: the beautiful growing attitude of the whole plant and even important: If the flower ends his life on a beautifull way without false discolorings and so on: The "best" rose is the most beautiful rose under different circonstances. If you look at your way at the human race it is a very poor animal: No speed as a cheetah, bad eyes if you look at a hawk, a sniffler worse than a ••••••• dog, almost naked and not covered against the climate. Yeah, more brains than other mammals, on that point I give in, but for me a woman is by far the best companion. So let`s be modest and settle this forever: The M2 is the best bike only on this planet. Hans. | ||
| Blake |
Pete: Personal insults? WTF are you talking about Mr. Sensitive? I can be a real azzhole sometimes, and my written words may not always convey tone very well. Never meant to insult ya though, well maybe just a little.  Life is good, and you are among friends here. And, I do think I know you a little. We've been fluffing back and forth for some time now; even shared our SatCom experiences. I consider you a friend, a big, grouchy, opinionated, articulate friend who just happens to live on the other side of the planet. And don't be so shy about your racing reputation. Weren't you the main reason that Mat Mladdin left the continent? Something about him being scared to race on the same track as that big crazy !#%@$#% ?  Glad to hear the GF is treating you well.  Okay, seriously now... I think your three point criteria for best street bike lacks quite a bit; it might fit a "best racebike" criteria though. You wanna put the R1 up for best bike ever made? You gotta rate it numerically so we can compare. My list of grading parameters was an attempt to quantify all the major aspects of a motorcycle that the buying public would consider important in deciding what motorcycle to buy. I'm open to revising the list if anyone thinks we need to add or remove any parameters. So for the R1, how about the following grading: 1. Reliability (4) I really have no idea; I'm giving the R1 the benefit of doubt here. Like I said though, the 2001 M2 was my basis. No recalls. No problems I know of. Can you prove that the 2001 R1 is more reliable than the 2001 M2? Why do you claim it is? Personally I think a (3) here would be closer to the mark. 2. Acceleration (4) Duh! 3. Agility (4) Ditto what I said above for "Acceleration." 4. Comfort (1) Touring on an R1?! Ouch. I did 2,000 miles in four days on my M2; 600 miles of this was over the Blue Ridge Parkway with speeds rarely exceeding 70 MPH, often below 60 mph. Anecdotal I know; riding a bike long distance doesn't prove it's comfort. But I've mounted an R1, I can say with certainty that wrists, knees, neck, and nuts would suffer greatly compared to an M2. 5. Customizability (2) With and R1 you are stuck with a faired repliracer. Sure performance parts abound. That's not customizability. The M2 wins here by a longshot. How many different engines are easily available that you can drop into an R1? With an M2 you can easily go from 1200cc to 1450cc just by dropping in a new engine. Call Axtell or Cycle Rama, S&S, or others... you got yourself a new custom motor that drops right into your stock frame. Add a Eurocomponents' fairing if you like, or an X1 chin fairing. Pick from a gaggle of airbox's. Mount touring bars, or clipons.... Hell, for $1,200 and the leftover parts, you can have it made into a  freakin cruiser! 6. Simplicity (1) Why is this important? Well, if you ever do have a problem, simple is easier to diagnose and fix than complex. Less to go wrong, less to maintain, less to worry about. Simple is just plain better 7. Artistry (2) The R1 is cool looking, but not so innovative or artistic as the M2. Plastic is not art. The huge exhaust can looks way worse than the Buell airbox. The M2 hides the can under the bike. The M2 airbox is practically universally accepted as a standart retrofit item. I have a gorgeous CF unit on my M2. The articulated sculpted lines of the flyscreen, fuel tank, and the painted tail section are artistic masterpieces. 8. Ease of Maintenance (1) Lower service intervals? Really? More than 10K miles? Tell me what you have to do just to change the spark plugs on an R1. What do you need to do to change the oil and filter? Gotta adjust the valves? How about chain maintenance? Gotta check/change the engine coolant? Sealed bearings on swingarm and steering head? Cool! Buell... Are you listening?! 9. Customer Service Network (4) I guess in Australia you have a point. Not in North America though. Still Yamaha deserves a (4) here. 10. Uniqueness/"Character" (2) How is "uniqueness" subjective? A bike is either unique or it isn't. There are types of character that make a bike interesting. Why do you think so many riders like the cruiser models. A big reason is that they are looking for the character aspect. The R1 is wicked fast and agile, but aside from coloring, parked next to a gaggle of other racerepli's it is virtually indistiguishable. The M2 is unique, the R1 is not. 11. Factory Support (2) Like I said before. Buell is leading the industry in forthright resolution to problems with voluntary recalls and "good will" upgrade programs. Yamaha is simply one of the average Joe's when it comes to factory support. Did Yamaha sponsor a homecoming week last year? 12. Cost of ownership (2) "Cheaper to buy"?! You hadda be thinking about the price of your X1. The M2 stickers at $8,795 and can be had for ~$8K. I paid $7,500 for my '00 M2. The R1 price, largely non-negotiable is $10,299 (still a great deal). The X1 is priced at a negotiable $10,695. How long do tires last/cost on an R1? What about the chain? Then there's the fuel efficiency issue. Sorry, the R1 loses bigtime here. So what, it ain't desinged for low cost. It's a friggin' racebike! 13. Tourability (1) If you insist that an R1 is equally suited to supporting a full set of gear (see my Pack/Gear list) as an M2, you are not being objective about this excersize. The fuel range, contrary to your assertion (addressed below), of the M2 is far superior to the R1. Then there's the comfort factor too. 14. Fuel Consumption (2) "A better fuel range and around 50 mpg at touring speed." How do you figure a better fuel range ya silly twit? (grinning cause I get to do some math now  ) Fuel capacities for the M2 and R1 are 5.0 and 4.7 US gallons respectively. As reported by Motorcyclist in their "Hard Numbers" list, the R1 achives an average 39 mpg. The last Buell they tested (a '99 S3) got 47 mpg. So an M2 would make 235 miles, the R1... 183. 15. Passener Accomodations (2) "Why slow the bike down." LOL! I'm with ya there! But this list is supposed to be a best bike comparison. 16. Real World Performance: (2) Still way too much power and race twitchiness in the R1 for other than very experienced riders. The moto publications even say this. We're trying to come up with the best overall street bike here right? Hell, even the M2 is too much for some people. For best repliracer, the R1 is in hot contention. That's 36 points total, 2.3 average for the R1 versus 53 total, 3.3 average for the M2. My objectivity might be a little suspect, but not that much! You shoulda picked the Yamaha FZ1 or the Honda Interceptor, which Motorcyclist calls "Arguably the best all-around motorcycle ever built." Of course I think Motorcyclist is full of pooh on that point. Hey, you asked for just a single "iota" of fact. I think we've met that criteria, so let's drop this silliness and let Court, and I continue to live the dream okay? Later, Blake (spending way too much time on this friggin board, not pretending my M2 is a racebike) | ||
| Peter_T |
Blake, Nope, Not one single iota of fact yet but lots of opinion. I'm not up to all the typing so lets just say that on your criteria I give the R1 4 for everything and a 5 for acceleration and agility. So that would be 66 with an average of 4.125. But that's just my opinion and contains no fact at all. it differs from yours and I guess everybody elses (some would rate the R1 higher) but that is the nature of opinions. You are right though we should drop this silliness and it is easily done. Court says he can prove the M2 is the best bike ever made so all he has to do is step up and provide that proof. That's not too much to ask is it? Pete P.S My Grand Father says hi. I may be a pervert but at least I keep it in the family | ||
| Blake |
Peter: Interesting quote from motorcycle online...
"Not a single iota of fact"? You are now striking me as one who simply cannot admit when he's wrong. If the racerboy hooligans at MO can admit the above, surely you can muster the courage to agree. I am bewildered that you fail to see the facts. Let's see... Try reviewing numbers 12 and 14; those are plain and simple documented facts my friend. They easily qualify as a 100% full iota. Or do you now want to debate the defiition of an "iota"?... i·o·ta noun 1.The ninth letter of the Greek alphabet. 2.A very small amount; a bit: not an iota of truth to that tale. [Latin iota, from Greek, of Phoenician origin; akin to Hebrew yôd, yod.] Blake (too stubborn to give Peter the last word on this) | ||
| Blake |
Oh! Tell your grandpa a hearty "Hello!" back at ya from the other side of the planet. | ||
| Pilk |
Blake,Peter,Court,and whomever else, My X-1 is the best, because it's mine! Can I prove it? Only to me. Have I raced? YES Owned any other sportbike? YES, one from each Jap company. My X-1 is not a beginner bike,not a race rep. either,but it is the best real world sportbike that i've owned from a whole look. I probably liked my VFR750 more than any bike I've had. But it was just another bike. My X-1 and I connect and work in concert with each other,riding or not. Please stop bickering back and forth,enjoy your BUELL! Pilk | ||
| Chuck |
DITTO | ||
| Tripper |
DoubleDitto. | ||
| Dark_Ninja |
Wow, This one really blew up! It's even got it's own thread now! Well I just went Casper->Thermopolis->Cody->YellowStone and back again over the weeked on my '98 S3T and it was fun! Wayyyy to cold, but fun! BTW, the wife's Blast! did pretty damn good too, considering. Pilk, I suspect PeterT and Court are having a certain amount of fun with this whole situation and are not SERIOUSLY bickering. Though I suspect they should both back off a little bit before they BECOME seriously bickering (hint!). How did we get from M2 Best Bike ever to comparing the R1 and the M2? C'mon! :D I realized it too late (probably because I was in a hurry on Friday) but Court...PeterT is only trying to say that your statetement that the M2 is the "Best Bike Ever" is too subjective to be taken at face value. He is probably right, 'best' is a word that is hard to define. It's kinda like nailing jello to a wall, not easy to do! PeterT...perhaps (lol, I KNOW!) there is some byplay here that a LOT of us (including me) are not getting. It sure seems to me though after re-reading the posts that while you are being slightly needled, you ain't being beat up on. Why continue to pressure Court for something you KNOW cannot exist? Is your desire to cost him 'face' really that great? If so...WHY? At any rate...you are ALL wrong, the 1998 S3T was the greatest motorcycle ever to roll out of any factory, anywhere in the universe, at any point time. Especially, if they are black...and owned by me! :D He he he Tired, windburnt and saddlesore, type more tomorrow. BTW, PeterT...I haven't forgotten your attempt at a defintion, just too tired now to sort through it all. Sleep well all! | ||
| Peter_T |
blake, I remember a long time ago we discussed the merits of quoting from magazines. I thought you might have given it up by now. LOL how about a concession. I believe you have proven that an M2 has better fuel economy than an R1 (even if you did use magazine quoted numbers) and is cheaper to buy. Is that an iota of proof that the M2 is the best bike ever made. Not as far as I can see. If it is then suddenly the Ural is looking good as the best bike ever made along with a lot of other bikes. Have you seen the fuel economy of a CT110? Court, Why so quiet. Resolve it for us by producing the proof you claim to have. Pete | ||
| Peter_T |
Damn, You are talking too much sense Dark_Ninja. You are right. In this case the quarry is not worth the hunt. Why did I pursue it so far this time? If a person makes a statement like; "the XYZ is the best bike ever made and I can prove it" I'll put it down to exuberance making them overstate the case and let it go. But if they keep repeating that claim and wont respond when questioned on it that is more than foolish exuberance and it annoys me. I know he can't produce proof so I'll stop asking for it. Anyway I'm off to trade the X1 on a CT110. With that fuel economy and low cost of ownership it must be the best bike ever made. Sorry Blake, I couldn't resist Pete | ||
| Blake |
Pete, I have to admit, you definitely have two iotas there!  That's still "a very small amount". But, I'm not the one that said "Just back this one statement of yours with an Iota of fact and I'll back down." That was you. The magazine quote? I think coming from a bunch of sportbike racing maniacs, that quote is supremely germane to justify my grade of the R1 in the "Real World Performance" category. Blake (sheesh, a guy can't have a good debate without worrying the less confrontational here? I'm Buelless in NJ; what's your excuse Aussie Pete? ) could it beeeeeeeee... not gettin any? | ||
| Road_King |
Court: You are, of course, entitled to your completely misguided opinion! I can't PROVE this, but I think my '96 Road King might just be the best bike ever built! Peter_T: I think I understand your point. It's not about the bike, it's about the absolute statement, right? Could we go back to arguing about breathers and puke bottles? The RocketBoy was much more entertaining than you two... Dark_ninja: You're right, it IS hard to nail Jello to a wall... Makes a hell of a mess, too. Good thing the dog likes Jello!! Road_Thing NEXT PAGE of topic |
