| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Matt, I didn't answer your opening question. >>> How do you know what they are capable of handling or what their workload was that day? But I didn't indicate any such knowledge. I thought my statement was fairly clear and non-declaratory. "I don't buy the idea that the medical staff couldn't handle another incident. Are you contending that they can only handle one emergency situation at a time? I don't think that is accurate. Let's sure hope not." >>> Pons was rushed to the medical centre and was probably still there receiving treatment when the MotoGP race started... Who is the one pretending to know? Yet if that was the case, then a delay would have sufficed. Pons was okay, and Marco was dead. Like I said before, I respect the MGP decision, I just don't think it honored the life or spirit of Marco Simoncelli. Does anyone really imagine that he'd have wanted the race cancelled? | ||
| Blake |
A more meaningful expression by all the racers united in tribute to Marco would have been amazing, perhaps an agreement to pace off the laps together and all finish together in one massive tie; all podium trophies given to Marco's parents. That would have been an incredibly positive tribute and an enduring mark in MGP history. | ||
| Bads1 |
You gotta be kidding me Blake?? Ya know if a few of you died in front my very eyes knowing that I've known you for years and not like these guys where they train together some of them and call one another Brother's. It would be the last thing I'd want is to get on my bike. I don't think I could..... I'd be crushed at that moment and taken in way to far in the moment. They may be racers but they are first human. They will all pay tribute...... count on it next and final race. | ||
| Blake |
Dana, Professional motorsports racing is a deadly dangerous job. Pretending that it isn't makes no sense to me. Racers will die in crashes. Canceling an event when what is well-understood to eventually happen makes no sense to me. Those too emotionally hit to race are free to opt out. Maybe some would. I could respect that. It's admirable that our military, police, firemen, oil & gas field workers, fishermen, miners, etc. don't operate according to the standard you describe. Ever hear Hollywood film productions being cancelled due to accidental death on the set? The show goes on. When I worked at LTV on the B2 design, we had a well-liked guy in the shop get crushed to death working on the high bay doors. A truly horrible death. The workday was not cancelled. (Message edited by blake on October 25, 2011) | ||
| Bads1 |
Blake I worked in a Diecast plant. A man went in between a die without a safety bar in place. He was crushed. The plant shut down for 2 days. Don't compare are Military,Police and firemen to a Motor Sport. What a absurd way of comparing.Hollywood film production death.LOL Yeah I bet they just keep filming that day.lol I bet they film but not that day. Funny I'm reading on many forums and you are the first I've heard that complained the race should have gone on in any fashion. (Message edited by bads1 on October 25, 2011) | ||
| Bads1 |
This is a picture of a safe racer.  | ||
| Jaimec |
As a matter of fact, Hollywood (and Broadway) productions DO get shut down when someone gets injured, Blake. They'll eventually resume, but not an hour or two later. More likely days or weeks. | ||
| Crusty |
I worked in Heavy construction and Mining for a few decades. When the Equipment Supervisor fell to his death at the Pueblo Dam project in 1973, the job was shut down for three days. Normal procedure on every other job was to shut down for one day. In my opinion (which is worth just what you paid for it), any workplace that doesn't shut down for an accidental death of an employee isn't worth working at. Stopping the race was the Right Thing to Do. | ||
| Bads1 |
The medic's were in such a hurry that they actually dropped the gurney with him on it while running to get him in the Ambulance. | ||
| Svh |
I agree with Crusty completely. I was at a mill working as an outside contractor doing electrical testing when a painter got crushed in a manlift. Had 0 affect on us and we wouldn't even had known it happened as it was almost 1/2mi away in the plant. But our customer came up and sent us home. We didn't return for 2 days. Blake with you seeming to feel it is ok for an employer to not understand the effects of human emotion on their work and safety it is understandable why you are the only person I have read arguing the race should have went on. | ||
| Alessio66xb12r |
In Misano, NOT a long time ago , when Tomizawa died ( in the hospital 30 minutes after the accident) the moto gp race had regular course. this is a fact like many others ..since Pasolini death in Monza in the 70's .anyway , personally i was not a Simoncelli fan but considering his young age and the fact that something really tragic occurred ,to stop a race was and should be the right and regular way to act. ...and to respect... more important than stopping a race should be also to stop all the TVs and rumors they are creating to make "odiens" on a tragedy like this. i said TV but the list of that kind of people in Italy is pretty long , not a big honor for us. hope the Parents of him continues to be so strong like they are demonstrating to be. i understand that people dies, it is a part of the human been , and often not after a so shining and nice life like him ..but it is always a stress to see when it happens. a BIG stress | ||
| Blake |
When young Peter Lentz died at Indianapolis, did they cancel racing? I don't think they did. That poor kid wasn't even an adult. Biut the MGP show went on, as it should have. 70,000 people in the stands, millions viewing via television; time to buck up and get on with the show. I can understand and respect the decision. I just don't agree with it, and it seems inconsistent. | ||
| 46champ |
I'm not sure Blake is complaining about the fact that the race was canceled, but what is the criteria for the cancellation. And I agree, is it a certain amount of time or some other arbitrary process. Did the do it because Weldon died a week before and they canceled his race heck they lost 1/2 the field I'm not sure they could have restarted. Just seams no hard rule exists. | ||
| Gaesati |
I didn't want to watch anymore after seeing the accident. It was too brutal. I am glad they cancelled the race. I've also been in an overloaded medical facility at a racetrack as a casualty of a racing incident. While the medical staff do their best, they can only manage so much trauma at one time. While they were all trying to look after me others had to wait. If racing had continued and somebody in as critical a state had been brought in it would have been a disaster for at least one of us. To think "The show must go on" as it applies to Marco's accident is a crap idea. | ||
| Trojan |
My point is the incredible double standard. Has MGP offered a statement explaining the specific reasoning for canceling the race? How are there double standards? The races are run by different organisations and to different rules by different people. There are no rules covering these sad situations that are applicable to all forms of motorsports, so the individual organisers react as they see fit to each individual incident. Most people accept the orgainsers reasons for cancelling this race, and I have not heard another dissenting voice (apart from yours) about this decision. If I remeber correctly young Peter Lenz wasn't killed during racing but in practice? If this had been the case with Marco then they may have continued racing the next day, but as it happened in the actual race they had little choice but to cancel. Who is the one pretending to know? Yet if that was the case, then a delay would have sufficed. Pons was okay, and Marco was dead. We don't know the situation inside the medical centre at the time of Marco's accident. However it was certainly NOT clear at that stage that either Pons was Ok or that Marco had passed away. Marco was worked on in the ambulance and med unit for a long time before they gave up and pronounced him beyond help, and Pons was there for most of that time being treated for his ijuries too (as was Colin Edwards for most of that time!). The MotoGP med unit is a modern and sophisticated unit capable of dealing with significant trauma, but at the end of the day is a mobile unit with only few staff. If they feel that they cannot deal with further incidents then the organisers must stop racing. We don't know the exact circumstances inside the unit but I certainly would not criticise them if they thought that they could not handle any further injuries/incidents that day. Your assumption that racing should continue, despite half of the field witnessing what must have been the most horrific thing they will ever see happen to a friend and colleague, seems to be at best misplaced and at worst unfeeling and disrespectful to those concerned and on scene. Maybe if it had happened in practice and the other riders had time to think and then decide whether to race or not, it would be different, but the decision not to restart this particular race was a no brainer for me. | ||
| Bads1 |
+++++ 1 Matt | ||
| Imonabuss |
I agree with Blake in that there is not consistency regarding deaths in motor racing. I do not know what the decision should be, but it does seem weird that for some deaths it is OK to go on, for others not. A terrible decision to have to make in any case, and I personally was too overwhelmed by the violence of that crash to have wanted to watch. But maybe it would have been better to do parade laps to honor him? I really don't know. I feel so bad for Valentino. Really though I hope this morbidness does not eclipse the incredible racing. It makes me angry that this gets more press coverage than does who wins the championship. For certain Marco would not want his death to damage the sport he loved so well. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Some people know more about death during races than others. Some posting on this very thread. That being said, I really don't think that the riders themselves were in any condition to restart. Who cares what the powers that be decided. I'd be willing to bet NONE of the riders would have restarted, even if told to do so. I think Dana's picture above of Rossi tells the whole story. Seeing the riders waiting in their pit box and the look of sadness, nausea, disbelief, horror, confusion and every other emotion on their faces scares me to think of what else may have happened. Are these guys professionals? Yes. But that doesn't make them immune to feelings. Feelings that would have affected them had they retaken the track. Unfortunately death, injury or crashes sometimes are more appealing to people than the actually racing. That really is a shame. I can say I will truly miss Simoncelli. I think we can best show our respect by not second guessing a decision that we have no control over. I hope ALL the racers can get over this. Especially Edwards and Rossi. Simoncelli's funeral is Thursday. May he rest in peace. May his family and friends find peace as well. | ||
| Bads1 |
This is Marco's Helmet so I can see where the head injury due to impact was much greater then the helmet could withstand.  | ||
| Svh |
Hopefully not only AGV but other helmet manufacturers can get some useful data from that. Something good could come from this then. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Words of his Father. As I thought, he passed away on the track. I can only hope he felt absolutely nothing... Paolo arrived at the scene of the crash as Marco was being lifted onto a stretcher and carried to the ambulance. He says he had called to his son, but Marco was already dead. He says he also bears no ill will to the bearers, who fumbled the stretcher on their way to the ambulance. "I was thereabouts, but Marco was dead already. I was 10 metres away, but Marco was already dead, it changed nothing. "I helped them: when they got back up and passed the stretcher over to my side of the guard rail I took the stretcher to place it in the ambulance and held Marco's hand and called him 'Ciao Marco', but he was gone already. "There was nothing that could be done. Nothing would have changed in that case. As for the rest, maybe more (attention) is needed, but these people try to do their best, so it's useless... But in our case Marco died on impact. "They say God summons the best to heaven. I don't know. I wish that's how it is." Paolo said Marco's funeral would almost certainly be held this Thursday, as a private function for relatives, friends, fellow riders and Gresini Racing staff. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7H9NFdTubk&feature =related | ||
| Blake |
Dana, >>> This is Marco's Helmet so I can see where the head injury due to impact was much greater then the helmet could withstand. Helmets are designed to take significant damage just like you are seeing in that photo in order to prevent damage to the brain. Same concept as having a race care be crushed and fall to pieces to alleviate the force of impact upon the roll cage and driver. | ||
| Bads1 |
Blake, Do you know how many helmets my wife has see in 20 years working what she does?? Any helmet that takes an impact like that one.... would result in severe head injury. Doesn't matter what it was designed to do.... it failed and things do and can. | ||
| Bads1 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8uMcN24W6w&feature =related | ||
| Bads1 |
The night before your last race you said you wanted to win the Grand Prix, because there on the podium everyone could see you better," Bishop of Rimini, Francesco Lambiasi said. "Now it pains us not to be able to see you, but it gives us peace and so much joy to know that we are being looked down on by you from the highest podium of them all. | ||
| Bads1 |
RIP Marco you'll be missed. http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/latest+videos#Marc o+Simoncellis+Funeral | ||
| Blake |
>>> Any helmet that takes an impact like that one.... would result in severe head injury. What impact? By what and against what? Dana, the better helmet shells are designed to absorb impact against a hard surface byd fracture, just like that one did. Sorry bro, I'd need a lot more information that how many helmets your babe of a wife has seen in the ER. How many died of head trauma for one. Consider, if Marco's helmet were caught between two hard points, like the pavement for one, and a motorcycle for the other. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Blake, you truly are an @sshole of the highest degree. It must be tough lugging around that giant head of yours so full of knowledge. Do they even make a helmet to fit that giant melon of yours? And try and show some respect for Dana's wife. No. Contrary to your babe remark and your idea that it would be a complement from a knob such as yourself, I can guarantee she finds no complement in it. Again, your trying to prove more than you know in a field (medicine) than you actually do. We all know your love of charts and graphs, but a crushed head of a motorcyclist coming into a hospital would prove you wrong. Helmets are designed for a singular impact, not multiple impacts and being run over by other bikes. All the design programs and computer simulations can't be wrong though, huh? | ||
| Bads1 |
Blake Shes seen alot. 20 years of CCU and now she teaches it at a tech college. Shes seen plenty to what I've been told by her and I've been with her the 20. That helmet was cracked pretty good. What Impact??? What did it take to crack it.lol Kinda a stupid question if you don'nt mind me saying so.You don't think that impact that can damage helmet can't at the same time damage the something as soft as the brain just from the impact alone?? Sorry it can. I read in the paper of accident that result in head injury and death from time to time.Your telling me you haven't?? (Message edited by bads1 on October 27, 2011) |
