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Court
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:12 am: | 
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>>>Erik knows more about patent law that most folks and also knows the best attorneys in the biz, his dad was one of them.
Note please also, that Erik has a number of patents for things totally unrelated to motorcycles.
One of our dear friends (who has never posted here) is one of the top intellectual property attorneys in the US and has always stood in awe of Erik's ability not just as an engineer, but as a businessman.
Don't look for a slew of bikes coming out next year with fuel in the frame.
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Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:45 am: |
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Erik's ability not just as an engineer, but as a businessman.
And my guess is because of that he's been able to keep his name on a bike for over 20 years now. |
Outrider
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 11:55 am: |
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Am quite familiar with patent law and enforcement of patent rights from conception through the courts. Won't bother elaborating other to say that some hold up and some don't. Those that don't usually fail the acid test compliments of the "prior art" proviso.
Personally, I applaud any inventor that has a patent and wish them all the best as that is the creative genius that keeps mankind moving forward. In motorcycling, Erik is a very talented individual with a sincere drive and passion to make a difference. On top of that, he possesses a personality that can communicate with anyone.
In essence, Erik is a real American Role Model and I wish him all the best. My posts are not meant to be cheap shots (although sometimes I agree they can be misconstrued), but rather things to consider that folks can relate to in their respective lives. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 03:22 pm: |
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Outrideer, not meaning to imply that you were taking a shot at Erik. Just to say that he is pretty good about getting a patent written up that will stand up. He has had patents that people have been able to work around and these have cost him a lot of money. |
Spike
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 06:15 pm: |
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Budo, do me a favor.
NEVER WORK FOR BUELL!
Man, you think an SV1k beats an XB12?!? They're completely different animals. The SV has the steering geometry of a Bandit 1200. It's bland. It's a fine bike for the money, but no way does it compare to an XB12. |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:50 pm: |
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For once I actually agree with Spike. I think the SV1000 is a hideous bike, its extremely uncomfortable, blah looking , etc. I havent seen 1 on the street yet, me thinks suzuki has a big ole dud on their hands with that bike. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:54 pm: |
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I rode the SV1000S, before I rode an XB9S.
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Trenchtractor
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:04 pm: |
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Spidey, I might ask, how does increasing the unsprung mass of the rear suspension by using the swinger as the oil tank help the handling??
I know it's allowed the wheel base to be shorter, but then so would using a "different" transmission. And we all know a water cooled donk would negate the use of an oil resoviour anyway.
Point is there are more than one solution... The one Buell have come up with is fine, but it could have been done better... |
Spiderman
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:35 pm: |
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Spidey, I might ask, how does increasing the unsprung mass of the rear suspension by using the swinger as the oil tank help the handling??
LOL But it doesn't
The oil is carried in the front of the swing arm and never gets near the tire.
It is contained up front near the pivot point.
As most of you that took 9th grade physics know...
The closer you are to the pivot point the smaller the movements vs the end and/or further away from the pivot point.
Now, this does two things...
One allows for better cooling being in a all aluminum tub.
and
Two the oil is slowly chuged as to mix it better to keep it cool an well mixed.
If you ever see a XB swing arm off a XB you will see the actual part that contains the oil and it is no where near a point that could affect the sprung weight of the suspension. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:46 pm: |
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Budo
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 12:30 am: |
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"Budo, do me a favor.
NEVER WORK FOR BUELL! "
Done... |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 12:43 am: |
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A friend of mine bought an SV1000 last year. He disposed of it within a fortnight it was such a poor bike.
Rocket |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 05:54 am: |
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The oil is contained in the swingarm in a fashion that takes it out of the equation.
If Buell can do this better (this is a question, not a challenge) please share. Some fairly sharp individuals produced thousands of simulations and hundreds of hard prototypes to make it "just right". Let me know what they missed and I'll make certain that they are teased without mercy.
Court |
Aaron
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:05 am: |
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I can't speak for Erik's business, but in high tech, a company's patent portfolio is largely there as a deterrent to being sued, because ultimately, all the companies are arguably infringing on each other to some degree. Every once in awhile, a company will file a suit, but if your company has a strong portfolio you can generally show infringement on their side, too, and it'll likely end up getting settled before it goes to court. Not before making both companies poorer and the lawyers richer, though. |
Phillyblast
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:46 am: |
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>> in high tech, a company's patent portfolio is largely there as a deterrent to being sued, because ultimately, all the companies are arguably infringing on each other to some degree
See "IBM" 
Smaller companies are also less able to afford the lawsuit, either defending it or bringing it. So even if Buell (the co.) cannot afford to sue a large company that produces say a bike with fuel in the frame, or an integrated muffler/chin fairing (yes the Blast muffler is patented) it protects the patent holder's ability to continue to produce their product. In addition, if a large company wanted to produce such a bike, Buell could license the patent to them, producing income. I'd be willing to hazard a guess that already happens. Boy wouldn't it just roast Dyna's ball$ if part of his money for the R1 went to Buell  |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:53 am: |
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>>>>I can't speak for Erik's business
But, having seen your wall covered in Aaron Wilson Patents, I'd say you speak with some degree of authority.
Sometimes the best defense is a great offense. Anyone recall when ANOTHER company tried to start up under the name BUELL MOTORCYCLE COMPANY?
I saved all the correspondence and news articles. Remind me to tell you sometime.
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Court
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:54 am: |
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By the way....I have saved for posterity the title of this thread. I fully intend to leverage it to my advantage in the future.
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Elvis
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 08:59 am: |
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I'm amazed that there are some people in the United States who are basically saying: "We should do things the way everybody else does."
This country used to stand for innovation. When the rest of the world was doing one thing, we'd try a different way. Some worked, some didn't. The things that worked would be successful and allow us to move ahead of the rest of the world. The ones that didn't disappeared. It's the basic formula for progress. If, after giving it a good try, Mr. Buell decides that carrying the oil in the swingarm just didn’t work as well as he thought it would, I’m sure he’ll go back to a more traditional set-up. If the concept was close but not quite good enough he may find that a revision of the next design will make it work better. There’s no way to know until you’ve tried.
It seems now some would rather we be followers than leaders. What sort of future is there in that? Should we strive to be: “Just a little behind the Japanese”? For the last 30 years we haven’t even been on the same playing field as them. Erik Buell was the only one with the guts to step onto the playing field, and they've been kicking him around pretty good, but every year he gets better while they stay about the same. The first year he lost 20-1, last year he lost 7-5, next year he could win.
Some people now want to say: "That's it Mr. Buell, you've had your chance, now we're going to copy the Japanese so we can always be a little behind them. We're going to make sure we lose 7-6 every year."
When you’re going up against systems that have been refined for the past 50 years, you may have a better way, but it’s going to take a lot of work to even approach the level of performance of a poorer system that has been refined to a level of working “well enough”.
Whether you like his bikes or not, as an American, you have to like the idea that he is not content to continue doing things the way everybody else is doing them. Personally I’d rather see him try new things and fail than succeed by producing the current standard.
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Brucelee
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 10:38 am: |
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I love the Buell approach, and the fact that everyone wants to know about my XB! I would be fine about it being faster, but it doesn;t have to be. If I want faster, I can buy it from at least 5 companies with bikes that ALL LOOK EXACTLY ALIKE!
I WOULD be fine about a Buell with a VROD motor, which would look and sound even better and still retain the buell look.
I love that Buell is different and that fact that I dont do valve adjustments and chain cleaning.
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Gonen60
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 11:37 am: |
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I like the fact Buell is different in someways to, I also like the fact that the two Buell formula Xtreme race bikes are showing great progress and promise. I just don't think the whole point is to do everything different. The fact is, all bikes are 2 wheels, one engine, and one pilot. Buell has made great strides to be new and cutting edge, gas in frame, oil in swingarm, front brake setup, belt drive. These are very cool and working out well. I would just like to see some major step forward concerning the overall power output. I am a big fan of the air cooled V twin, and if the motor can be revamped to get the power I think we all want fine. If not, hopefully Buell will move on the greener pastures. Do we need 120, 130 140 HP@the backwheel? No...but does 99% want it? YES.
I love My Buell, it's fresh, it's fun. Can't wait to see what the future brings.
Maybe when the Buell race teams can start winning on Sundays, they will sell on Mondays. Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kawaski know that creed by heart. It's all about winning for them, and I think that is great. Buell has stepped up with the XB9 and 12 and I am proud to ride one. I prefer no side tracks like the XB/X, but that is just me. |
Barkandbite
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 01:38 pm: |
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Gonen:
Well said. I think there is the perception that just because some of us do not care for the new tarted-up models (despite the fact we're the same riders who own XB's) that now that means we want full fairings and inline-4's and Buell should just pack up shop and quit.
I don't know where this perception comes from that divergent opinions have to mean the absolute and mutually exclusive paths that some people suggest.
It's OK that people like the knuckleguards. It's OK that people like the translucent bodywork. It's ALSO OK if people don't.
I'm guessing we could have the same debates about the new Coke and Pepsi oddities.
In summary, those of us who don't like the new styling are simply saying that rather than "decorate" why not "innovate" (some more) and refine the existing platform by addressing some of the deficiencies.
We're not being critical of every move the BMC has ever made, we just don't necessarily agree with this one.
More power is not a bad thing. A better tranny is not a bad thing.
I would suggest that these debates get to inflamed because many people distract the discussions into some sort of personal attack/defense tangent of Erik Buell, the person.
I don't know about you, but I don't ride Erik Buell. I ride a product with his name on it. That's it. I admire the man and I sure as hell love the product.
If all of us didn't love our Buell's, we wouldn't spend all this time arguing about them!
I think this horse is dead. The points have been made. We're all right since EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion; right, wrong, or indifferent. Go ride, willya!?
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