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Chainsaw
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 09:28 pm: | 
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...Harley dealers (since most of them are neanderthals) are going to laugh these things off the floor.
If any Harley dealer is laughing it's probably because he is selling tons of leather-fringed assless chaps to grown men. 
Some of ya'll take this new Buell stuff way too serious, and I'm betting your'e not HDI shareholders either, or you'd have noticed HDI was up $3 a share this week.
One brand of motorcycle will not appeal to all buyers. If you don't like the offerings of Brand X, buy a Brand Y. If you're disappointed with the current offerings, why don't you cowboy up and apply for a job at BMC? I'm sure one of you "armchair" designers can come up with a new motorcycle that will sell to every man, woman and child on the planet. It will only cost $50, do 300 mph, and be available in every color of the rainbow.
Don't forget to add some conchos. Real motorcycles need conchos... 
edited by chainsaw on July 16, 2004 |
Odie
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 09:37 pm: |
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I noticed..............cha'ching!!!!!! |
Unibear12r
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 10:21 pm: |
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Anybody who thought that Buell could come out with a totally new model bike or motor upgrades after doing just that the last two years was not being realistic. Harley may have deep pockets but Buell needs more sales and TIME to return the capital outlay for the XB. Constant capital infusions that big would soon have the bean counters and stockholders sending Buell to the same graveyard that Indian just went to. Buell is still a small company and must stand on its own financial responsibility. Even Harley is two companys, the corporation types and those who build and love a type of motorcycling. It was definitely leaked/alluded to that little more than color upgrades would occur this year. Notice the nice XB wide accessorys like the springs and sliders that are already selling. Broad appeal and small investment. My 6speed, hard bags or T model will be produced when the right market values appear and even Erik Buell can't change that. They should have made the color options XB wide though as sticking the 9R with one color appears short sighted to me. The City bike may not apeal to most of us but my teen drivers think BMC just smacked a BIG one outta the park and if the (possible) expanded market share helps me get what I want I'm all for it. |
New12r
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 10:30 pm: |
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you all should look at the Porche 911, refined over 20+ years. Same basic platform but new. I bought my Buell because it is different! I dont give a rats behind what any of my friends think, I did not buy it because they liked it. No I cant outrun my buddies GSXR 750 in a straight, but my bike doesnt scare the crap out of me when it finally makes power at 8000 rpm and tears the front tire off the ground making it impossible to turn either. As far as the CityXS, not my cup of tea, but someone asked for it or they would not have built it, ever think of that? Yall can whine and complain or you can root for the team, Im rootin' for the team, GO BUELL! |
Captainkirk
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 01:54 am: |
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After reading these posts, I can't help but remember a similar uproar over the Blast! when it came out...
Personally, I felt the same way about the XB9 when it first came out. So much, in fact, I rushed out to not buy one and took home a gently used M2 instead. Having fallen in love with the tube frame Buells I was disappointed and felt Buell had made a big mistake. After several years of thinking this over I realize I was wrong about the XB's. All of you who own one surely know why. It's a better handling, better designed bike. And I still wouldn't trade my M2 for one. Erik can't afford to live in the past no matter what he thinks personally. To do so would be to seal the fate of Buell. I have no intention of trading in my M2 for a long time...if ever. I doubt if many of you have any intentions of trading in your XB's or whatever you ride anytime soon. Buell is trying to explore and tap new markets. What's wrong with that? If you don't like the bike don't buy it. If it turns your stomach don't look at it. If you think it's queer then don't ride next to one. Personally, some of the comments I've heard sound reminiscent of the darts leveled at Buell by other bike-type owners in years past.
Did you stop to think that maybe this bike is targeting ladies and young people (Re: UniBear's post)? And isn't attracting new riders to the fold what it's all about, anyway? Would I buy one? No. Would I ride along next to one? Of course. So let's give Erik a break and maybe realize that while we're all walking the same path, he may possibly be miles ahead of us.... |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 06:45 am: |
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>>>>But why put the 9 motor in it?
F-L-E-X-I-B-I-T-Y
When was the last time a Buell owner did nothing to his/her (I remembered Chris) bike?
In my *PERSONAL* opinion, I'd rather have the 9, with the associated lower price, send the motor to Aaron or Pammy with a $2,000 bill and go happily along on my Firebreather.
We have some skilled aftermarket performance folks who, unconstrained by feds and company, have proven to be able to leverage the $$$ better.
Just a thought. |
Court
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:08 am: |
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>>>>The City bike may not apeal to most of us but my teen drivers think BMC just smacked a BIG one outta the park and if the (possible) expanded market share helps me get what I want I'm all for it.
Two important points have been touched on.
First: Buell MUST expand the number of folks the prodcut appeals to. I do not expect to need brush guards to clear a path through Central Park and am unconvinced that the handguard would really prevent actuation of the front brake if I smacked a Kenworth. BUT, they look VERY cool and they (say this word twice) DIFFERENTIATE the Buell.
Something/Anything (with apologies to Todd Rundgren) is essential to capture the eyes, minds and hearts of the new motorcycle buyer. Buell will have few folks dispatch 748's or RT1000 in favor of the City Crosser. They will however, with proper finiancin packages which I am sure Eagle credit is already crafting, have something that brings in the new, younger buy.
SECONDLY, Buell is at an interesting point. Owners are very picky about quality and rightfully so. We are better educated, information travels quicker and the internet ensures any disturbance in the force (ala the 1:500,000 chance of a shock failure) is rapidly amplified to "Buell owners everywhere flying from bikes as they disintegrate beneath them" headlines.
The point is that Buell has made unbeleiveable inroads in quality AND consistently. Doing something perfect is of no value if you only do it 87% of the time. Batting .300 worked for George Brett, Buell has to hit about .9947.
One way to do this (Hark back the the saying "Practice makes perfect" is to leverage a platform. Note how auto mfgs cross brand lines with paltforms. Guess how many wonderful vehicles were really "K Cars" in diguise.
Buell has an extraordianry frame and platform combination that is, with the acquisition of consumer info, proving to be one of the best and most reliable ever made. Not having to juggle the recall, service balls allows Buell to use resrouces in other areas.
I'm not sure which one of you hit on the fact that the CityX is but a few cosmetic changes, but my compliments.
Engines, frame geometry, brakes and other systems take a good long time (govt testing, design evolution and certification) to take from your head to the showroom and they cost a bundle.
On the other hand adding a brush guard take nearly nothing.
Wanna know what the biggest example of this ever pulled off was? Someone take a guess. Imagine taking a fairly popular model, ditching the polished wheels in favor of white, foregoing the "stardust silver" frame in favor of white, eliminating the headaches of fading colored paint in favor of white, toss in the head mod you've wandered upon that adds a touch of power, etc and doing the entire thing for pennies, adding a couple letter to the designation and pooooooof. Remind me to tell you that one sometime....
As for me, I confess there is something about those tires on the Cx (which I am from this point changing the designation to, I have no idea how Erik missed that....engineering oversight I suspect) The Cx BEGS to be transformed to the ULTIMATE urban assault vehicle.
Bottom line, is it for everyone? Perhaps not. But, I'll bet we start seeing some new names here on Badweb from people posting after they get home from school.
Court - becoming a "brush guard" sort of a guy! |
Daves
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:28 am: |
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I think the CityX is a great bike to bring in younger riders!
Let's think about this,
New,fresh,different look.
They kept it a 984 to keep under the radar screen of higher insurance rates,very important to young riders.
It doesn't look like a "crotch rocket" so maybe,just maybe, parents will be more open to letting them buy one.
Begs to be customized,ever see the cars kids drive these days?
Lower price than 04
I can see selling a bunch of these, I hope Buell will step up and market them to the younger,more hip than most of us already here, crowd.
I better go mix up some more koolaid! I think I'm going to need it.
Ride to the edge!
Dave
daves@h-dappleton.com |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:42 am: |
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The S1W White Lighting.
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José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:45 am: |
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quote:Why not? RRW has an article on the Hal's FX Buell machines. Says you can own one for around $20K. I don't think they are out to avoid selling racing parts.
That's an inaccurate statement. Read the whole article, specifically the second to last paragraph. |
Buckinfubba
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:46 am: |
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But dave....hd finacial won't touch these youngins and in most states the buells aree no longer flying under the radar screen.
so yes the young ones get interested, then hd finace turns them down, or they get the money then they get an insurance quote of 3 to 4 grand a year....then what.
I understand who its aimed at.....so what if the whole motorcompany don't get in line its still a crazy fiasco.
I hope I am wrong, I really do |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:47 am: |
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Speaking of captive market,
I wonder if the Buell folks notice that, despite not selling very well, S2/S3's seem to be very heavily represented at BRAG events....... |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:03 am: |
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Brian, yes, insurance is still an issue, hopefully the new pucks (which are still not as good as the welded on kind as used on the race bikes) will help to protect the frames a little bit better. If they came standard on the bike I might help to lower the the insurance a bit. |
Daves
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:10 am: |
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Eaglemark isn't the only bank out there Bubba.
I work with 7 other banks,credit unions.
Insurance is an issue.
I wish HD-Buell-Eaglemark would come out with a program like the metric companies have.
Put it on your Hooligan card?
I'm going to offer free pucks on every XB I sell.
Dave
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Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:25 am: |
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I'm not sure which one of you hit on the fact that the CityX is but a few cosmetic changes, but my compliments.
Look closer.
Court, you are my hero. |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:30 am: |
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And I mentioned the link between HD & Buell using platform bikes to increase model numbers & bring down costs. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:42 am: |
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Dyna, why do you work in plastic and not marketing somewhere? |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:44 am: |
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Luck of the draw. Never planned on plastics, just sorta fell into it. Been doing it for almost 17 years now. Wouldnt mind a change to a different field though. |
Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:50 am: |
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I think the CityX is a great bike to bring in younger riders!
To keep going strong ya gotta get a younger crowd. You can't count on us mid lifers to keep your company going forever.
IMHO, Dyna, you got the brains, and good sense to make it in another field. I've change careers 3 times. The biggest leap was from injection molding to IT, and now am working on opening a bike shop of some sort. |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 08:58 am: |
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To keep going strong ya gotta get a younger crowd. You can't count on us mid lifers to keep your company going forever.
Makes sense to me, look at the average age of the tube frame owners. Has to be in the mid 30's if not quite a bit older. The XB lowered that by quite a bit & obviously this new pseudo motocross bike may actually excite the 17-20 year old crowd. Personally it does absolutley nothing for me, but then I am also not part of their target audience.
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Glitch
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:26 am: |
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but then I am also not part of their target audience.
This go 'round anyway.
Maybe next year the XB12S/T?
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Daves
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:32 am: |
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Maybe the XB23DS (2300 cc Dyna special)
Dave |
R1DynaSquid
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:44 am: |
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Now that bike sounds like a winner Dave. |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 09:50 am: |
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im soposably probly apart of this younger crowd and id rather the firebolt than the new sx though i think the clear body parts are a cool additon im just not to big on the 4x4 look it has with the grill and hand thingys but some people like that stuff hell it kinda reminds me of a bike bmw, ktm and a few others have had out that were street bikes but had a dirt bike look to them though none of them used a sport bike chasis to build them but thats why buell is different |
Impulse_101
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:01 am: |
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I think that most of us agree that the XB platform is a good one. The City X is nothing to get bent out of shape about. It's not aimed at most of the people on this board. It's most likely aimed at a younger crowd, and I hope they buy them like crazy.
I am disapointed at what Buell's not making much more than I would be pissed about new cosmetics on a bike I wouldn't buy anyway. I'm not getting upset at Buell for building the Blast, even though I wouldn't buy one for myself, so why get upset about the CX?
It does make me a little nervous to think that HD's plan might be to use Buell as it's "intro" line for young riders and then get them onto Harley's later. Which means that we will might never get the sport tourer that so many of us desire. But we need a lot more proof of where the line is going before we make that assumption."
Buell's lineup is very small right now. Maybe it will grow, maybe it won't. If my S3T blew up tomorrow (impossible since it's in the shop ) I'd have to go elsewhere for a new bike. I want a sport tourer, period. I would like a second bike that is a pure sportbike, but my daily life demands that I have luggage and I would prefer a little more comfort as well. I will also be making at least one 1000+ mile trip a a year and I'm not doing that on a XB.
I guess there is always next year, and if they don't come out with what "You" want, then there is the year after. You're not limited to buying a Buell and there is a bike out there for everyone. It's just a shame that there isn't an American made bike for everyone.
JT |
Coldwthrrider
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:03 am: |
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For people who already own a Buell to decide what models future owners should or shouldn't like is silly. Case in point. A few days ago I went out riding with a buddy who has on old Honda and thinks he might want a Buell (instead of a Harley). He rode my 9R for about 20 miles on some really curvy roads and said he really liked it...but not that he wanted it. That was the day the announcement came out so I showed him the website and said that any of the new XB models will handle the same as my bike. His first choice....the CityX, because he thinks the 9R is too aggressive and crotch rocket looking, and doesn't really like the previous 9S colors and look. So there's one CityX that will probably be sold next spring or summer. It's that simple, it's the new Buell buyers who will be eating this thing up because they like it. It's another option in style on the same platform. If they can attract some buyers by just changing some plastic parts that's brilliant. For me, if Buell didn't have the R model I wouldn't have bought an S, and I'd probably be riding an SV650S right now. |
Daves
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:17 am: |
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Cold,
You are going to have him come to Appleton for it, right?
Dave |
Phillyblast
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 10:51 am: |
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I sold my Blast last year to a friend of mine - long story - but I really miss it. I mentioned in another thread, I have a 6-7 mile urban assault run to work each day. Can sometimes take as much as a half hour. And then I have to leave the bike parked in the open in the middle of what could be described generously as a "neighborhood in transition"
So the S2 is spending a lot of time in the garage. I came out of work once and found a group of kids climbing all over it, twisting the throttle, making vroom noises. S2 bodywork is spendy these days if you can even find it. Whereas the Blast - I had Xroads bars and rearsets on it, chopped the seat, V&H and was considering a 515 kit for it - was a perfect urban assault vehicle. Tipover parts are cheap, it was lightweight, flickable, great brakes. It needed better suspension and more power to handle the nastier sections of road and the occasional squirt when you realize that guy _isn't_going_to_stop_at_the_stop_sign_and_you're_in_the_intersection_already!!!
Wait, I'm describing the CityX aren't I? And it has to be reliable. It's my ride to work, remember? I'm at the very tail end of the "18 to 34" demo, and I think the bike is a huge home run. It's only cosmetic changes, but the concept grabs me. Read the QA where EB talks about the socio-economic benefits of motorcycling, and the CityX makes absolutely perfect sense. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 11:44 am: |
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I like the new bike and the new colors. I see this helping Buell with increased sales to new to Buell riders. Looks sell, even in bikes!
I look forward to an XB or XB derived bike with the VROD motor and a six speed. I would be the first at the door.
And, I love my 9s which I would keep along side the new rig.
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Buckinfubba
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 07:06 pm: |
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Dave
That is what I am talking about, they come up with a bike that is supposedly to attract younger buyers. But then the big moco and its finace folks and insurance folks don't get in line with the marketing. It is just goofy business is what I am saying. yes I know there are other banks out therebut, Hd should help out here like you said with something like a credit card deal(hooligan card). But they don't .
you know my beef with this and I have said it before. I am just still real friggin sour on HD....the great american company. |
José_quiñones
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 09:51 am: |
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quote:It does make me a little nervous to think that HD's plan might be to use Buell as it's "intro" line for young riders and then get them onto Harley's later.
Be nervous, that is exactly the intended "upgrade" path for Buell owners. They already have you going to the dealer that will sell you your future bike, that's the first clue. The lack of a Sport Tourer from Buell is your second clue. The way BRAG has been folded into HOG and is run in a similar manner is your third. The VROD is your fourth clue.
So your option is to go HD or go elsewhere. It remains to be seen where people go. If enough people go elsewhere and HD realizes it, HD will have to sell a Sport Tourer either under the Buell brand or HD with VROD powered FXRT type bike, not quite as Sporty as a Buell but with good handling/ground clearance, great power and refinement, and lots of space to put you and a passenger comfortably for long distances.
edited by josé_quiñones on July 18, 2004 |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 10:11 am: |
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>>>Be nervous, that is exactly the intended "upgrade" path for Buell owners.
What if they held a party and nobody came....better yet what if folks bought the BLAST to learn on, got a taste of the commraderie in the Buell community and stayed for the XB party?
Whadya think of that Chris?
There are some surprises taking place.
Harley-Davidson is also learning through Buell, a test bed with much lower consequnces, about consistent, repeatable quality.
Good deal for Buell, good deal for Harley-Davidson. I like win-win deals.
Court |
Gonen60
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 10:17 am: |
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Just a thought, Maybe, Harley Davidson plans on unveiling a pure sportbike, using the V-rod Motor, under the mighty HD badge.
It wouldn't surprise me at all. Maybe their marketing department figures HD could put a nice dent into the growing sportbike scene.
V-rod power, full fairing, factory race type colors, Hell I would buy one most likely.
Buell will keep the street fighter and the new wacked out citycrossX bike.
just thinking out loud. |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 12:26 pm: |
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Until the VROD carries more than 3.7 gallons, I would not consider it as a true "touring" platform.
The absolute max range for a VROD is 173.9 per tank, and that doesn't account for "real world" factors such as exceeding the speed limit and riding into a headwind, which will significantly reduce that max range.
A touring bike needs a range of 200+, IMHO. |
Coldwthrrider
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 01:02 pm: |
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Dave: If the price is right compared to the local dealers... I'll try to throw some business your way when the time comes.
I'm experienced at making road trips across WI to pickup Buells now!} |
Opto
| | Posted on Monday, July 19, 2004 - 03:51 am: |
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It does make me a little nervous to think that HD's plan might be to use Buell as it's "intro" line for young riders and then get them onto Harley's later
That makes about as much sense as smoking grass leads to using needles.
Harleys and Buells are two different animals. |
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