| Author | Message | ||
     Kinder |
While I like the 1190 I fear it has the same issues as a Desmo... No dealer support and VERY limited parts source at this time. While if I had the money I'd grab one both just to have and to help support Erik Buell Racing but it prob wouldn't be a daily rider. | ||
| Blake |
Fear is lame. Best to go on facts. | ||
| Jdugger |
> Best to go on facts. Which, right now for the 1190RS, don't really exist. We *all* sit here with baited breath on this bike, and want it to be the best. But, there's a lot unknown. I'm not in the $40k bike market, either, but I don't think questions right now about long-term support are completely invalid. | ||
| Court |
>>>While I like the 1190 I fear it has the same issues as a Desmo... Let's be clear . .. We KNOW that about the Desmo. You FEAR that about the 1190. The Desmo KNOWLEDGE is based on ACTUAL EXPERIENCE OF OWNERS. Your FEAR is based on pure speculation. Correct me anywhere I am inaccurate. Court | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . VERY few folks are in the market for $40,000 and were it not for the AMA requirement there would likely not be 100 of them or 100 of several other bikes. But selling 100, as opposed to say 12,000 bikes at $12,000 a year, is an entirely different market. There was a time when an MV Agusta F1 was a "high end" bike . . there is one, pretty beat up in fact, that sits chained by a light pole to my office daily.  Be mindful that some folks' PERCEPTION of the 1190RS is based on the 1125R. They, with HD owning the rights to most the 1125R, are quite different animals. Just saying . . . | ||
| Jdugger |
> Just saying . . . I hear ya buddy. But, for an outsider looking in, they could learn from your posts here the 100 that are for sale are being sold at a loss. And, that there are only 100 of them being made making for an unlikely aftermarket. By a company in the racing business (at least for now), a market that's not doing so well as of late. It doesn't take an MBA to know that formula alone doesn't fv() into long term viability. We all know Erik Buell Racing is going to have to pull a rabbit out of their hat sometime soon. And, I think we all hope the $15-20k Erik Buell Racing-"B2" or whatever comes forward for the masses of us comes soon. Sign me up for one. Until then, while I don't agree with the statement that an 1190RS is as big a risk as some of the other exotics, I don't think it's unreasonable to have those concerns. Let's call it tempered optimism... Like you said... just sayin'... | ||
| Davegess |
JD, I think you may be wrong on the sold for a loss thing, don't know but Erik has just a small bit of experience with this and since it is his money I suspect he plans on making his investment back. As far as a risk to buy one? I figure Erik Buell Racing is on better footing than MV. Erik has been making bikes for almost 30 years now and you can get parts for all of them except the very fist one. KTM and Ducati are a bit of a better bet as far as survival but the show Bimota and the other real exotics pretty weak on support. | ||
| Court |
Wow........we are going to have SOME fun. Think. The pea may not be under the center cup. If ....... You were one of the most famed iconic motorcycle engineers and had great relationships with about 652 of the most talented engineers and pros in the business AND you had 30 years of know how and folks in 27 countries wanting to help and see you succeed .........where would you point your wagon ? 100 bikes be your "end game" | ||
| Jdugger |
> JD, I think you may be wrong on the sold for a loss thing, Talk with Court about that -- it's his metric, not mine. I don't know anything about the economics of the 1190RS. | ||
| Black |
Lord help us, I can't believe we actually have a thread about dealer support for the 1190, particularly at this stage of the game. The Bad Web never ceases to amuse me. | ||
| Rfischer |
Guys.... If one of you wants to buy an 1190RS, a dealer Will be found. That dealer Will have parts and technical backup from Erik Buell Racing and therefore Will be able to support your bike. Said dealer may or may not be H-D affiliated, but that will be irrelevant. None of this is conjecture. | ||
| Dirty_john |
Once bitten etc - I think my 1125R is the best bike I have owned in 36 years of being on the road since the age of 17. However getting hold of Buell parts is becoming quite expensive here in the UK although to be fair my local dealer has never failed to get me what I needed as I build up a stock of consumable items that I may need in the next 5 years of ownership. I laid out my hard earned cash to buy the 1125R 09 model in 2008 and I always keep my bikes for many, many years and expect to be able to get all parts I need, I can still get all parts for my year 2000 Suzuki within 48 hrs, what I don't expect is to have to put with irritating issues such as the clutch slave cyl problem and stator longevity issues on the 1125R and the worry this produces each time I crack open the throttle. That is why I would have to seriously think about an 1190RS even though my heart tells me to get hold of one asap. It is all very well to say the problems are sorted with the 1190RS but what about us faithfull Buell owners who have obviously been used as test fodder for a (perceived) underdeveloped product in the first place? I wish I had kept my Firebolt at times. | ||
| Crowley |
Rfischer, are you any connection with Fischer Motorcycles? | ||
| Blake |
>>> ...used as test fodder for a (perceived) underdeveloped product... Highly inaccurate characterization. To wit, the 1125 Buell issues you mention are no different in character than those that have stricken every single motorcycle manufacture on the planet. In fact they are much less serious than many. I'd not pretend that any moto manufacturer had intentionally used their customers as test fodder. That is outrageous. | ||
| Bueller4ever |
No one who can afford a $40k motorcycle is worried about dealer support, come on. I think there will be a lot of 1190's sitting on the shelf. | ||
| Rfischer |
Adam, no. And Brad, you presume entirely too much. | ||
| Court |
I think the hundred or so folks who listened and swapped Q&A with Erik today will have a keener sense of the state of things..... | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'd write him a check today...but he could play basketball with it, it would bounce so high. I'd have no hesitations about taking an 1190 and turning into TRANSPORTATION. Of course...I also logged 750 miles on my 1125CR. On Monday.  Court - any chance of a recording/transcription of the Q&A? | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
agreed i really wanna hear the Q & A Jake | ||
| Elvis |
Well? Who's gonna talk? Interesting to see where Ducati decided to put the muffler on their new bike (from Hell for Leather):  | ||
| Trojan |
If ....... You were one of the most famed iconic motorcycle engineers and had great relationships with about 652 of the most talented engineers and pros in the business AND you had 30 years of know how and folks in 27 countries wanting to help and see you succeed .........where would you point your wagon ? I'd make sure that this sort of thing wasn't happening before launching another new Bike... That is why I would have to seriously think about an 1190RS even though my heart tells me to get hold of one asap. It is all very well to say the problems are sorted with the 1190RS but what about us faithfull Buell owners who have obviously been used as test fodder for a (perceived) underdeveloped product in the first place? Buell have suffered from this perception of unreliability before, and cannot afford to have issues like this hanging over the new bike, which after all is effectively the same engine as the 1125 (albeit bored and fettled at the factory). If Erik Buell has access to so many great engineers and suppliers then sorting out what is effectively a minor clutch issue should have been done and dusted a long long time ago  Similar clutch slave cylinder issues have affected Ducati, KTM and Aprilia, but there are tried and tested fixes for these in the market place already. I fear there are just not enough 1125's out there to make it realistically worthwhile for an aftermarket supplier to produce a clutch kit to fix the problems, so it is really down to either the Erik Buell Racing factory or H-D to sort it out unfortunately. H-D have no incentive to fix the problems but surely Erik does if he wants to be seen as a quality manufacturer. Right, now that I have opened up Pandoras box I'm off for the weekend......... | ||
| Jules |
If Erik Buell has access to so many great engineers and suppliers then sorting out what is effectively a minor clutch issue should have been done and dusted a long long time ago Why? What's it got to do with him? Seriously, the fundamental design is OK, just the (cheap) execution is at fault and that's not an Erik Buell Racing issue or an Erik Buell issue it's a HD issue... | ||
| Froggy |
Correct, and then they came out with the piston and seal kit that fixes the issue anyway, so it is irrelevant. | ||
| Crowley |
Sadly, this seems to be the attitude of HD too. My 'upgrade' kit failed and I know of two others in the UK that have failed as well. In an earlier post on this thread, we have been told that the current bikes from Erik Buell Racing have a similar but 'better' slave cylinder fitted. However, I agree that responsibility for this now lies at the door of the MoFuCo. | ||
| Dannybuell |
my clutch is great with it's kit, new cover and all. 5K miles and no problems. | ||
| Black |
(Message edited by Black on June 04, 2011) | ||
| Crowley |
Just this morning, I heard a mate had taken his Helicon for its 6k service. Not only was there a clutch leak, but plastic debris and a lot of metal was found on the oil strainer. This was supposed to have been 'sorted' too. I really can't see HD stepping upto the mark on this either. | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
something tells me too many people are still getting mixed up with HD era, this is a NEW UNINHIBITED era with unfathomable possibilietes and untapped potential...there is NOTHING holding them back and they are finally using the best of the best as far as materials and professionally constructed in depth. stop getting mixed up with HD and the 1125 problems, this is in NO way related. apples to oranges people. Jake | ||
| Sportster_mann |
I'm sorry - but the motor that Erik Buell Racing uses is still the same Buell/HD era item - with ALL of it's inherent problems - if Erik Buell Racing do come up with solutions to these problems then they should offer them to people that have helped fund this new endeavour - Erik Buell has most likely bank rolled Erik Buell Racing with the payout he received from HD, and we as owners of Buells have paid good money to the Buell name ... (Message edited by sportster_mann on June 04, 2011) | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
what exactly makes you think that they havent come up with solutions?? its been over 3 years since the first 1125 came out, and they have ample time and race proven products already. and with how busy the elves have been its no wonder why they havent been put up yet, all it time. i dont see what your vendetta is, there is no reason to have such negative positions on a subject we know little to nothing about, and without the facts and future proofs there is nothing to argue. Jake |
