| Author | Message | ||
     Jessemc |
Hugh -I'd say if the oil pump drive gear was intact, I'll bet you had a crank bearing failure similar to mine Hugh, any theories on what caused the bearing failure? | ||
| Buellerxt |
Not yet, Hugh. The tech on my job is the dealership's top guy and he has been there for over 25 years so I have hope that he will pinpoint the cause. He is the guy who builds their race bikes and gets their toughest jobs and I'm told by the GM, a friend, that the tech is on a mission to find the cause. He went on vacation today and will be back on June 1st. All the parts should be in by then and he'll be on my bike full time. His first mission is to finish the tear down, inspect the oiling system thoroughly, and find the cause. I'll report back. | ||
| Rdkingryder |
Hugh, what are the chances that the '07 side cases can go on an '08 engine? There's an engine on ebay I'm tempted to get, but it's missing alot of parts compared to yours. Just wondering how many parts will interchange. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Roland- I'm pretty sure the left side is interchangeable but the right side definitely is not. The right side crankshaft case isn't machined for the 07 type oil pump plus I think there'd be other issues. I think I looked at that engine a couple of times before I bought the one I did. If it's the one I'm thinking about, I'd guess the bike slid a long ways on the right side. You could price out the missing parts new, but you'd probably looking at doing a full conversion with wiring harness like I had to do. | ||
| Rdkingryder |
Hugh, thanks. Looks like the cheaper route to go for me is the get the crank kit. Should be less than $1K for everything through Chicago Harley. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Jessemc- Sorry I didn't answer your question earlier. According to what Erik Buell Racing told Roland (I think I'm remembering this right), there was apparently a bad batch of cranks in 2007. I'd guess something was wrong with the crankpin or bearing material, fit, or finish. I've got about 300 miles on the new engine now. I changed to Amsoil at 200 miles Saturday morning and then put about another 100 miles on it. Found just a couple of tiny metal fragments on the drain plug (what you normally find) so that was good. There was also no increase in noise going from conventional to synthetic- this engine is definitely quieter than the old engine. It also sounds different- I hear a faint whine that wasn't present before; I suspect that's the new oil pump arrangement. With the muffler valve cable connected and a working actuator installed, it definitely pulls harder at 3000-4000 RPM. This engine seems to react a little differently coming off throttle into a turn; I don't believe it provides quite as much engine braking as the 2007 engine. Maybe that's an effect of the IAV. I also finally got around to doing a minor cosmetic upgrade. The "Buell" tank stickers were starting to lift so I went ahead and pulled them off. Man, that goo they stick them on with is hard to get off. I had a can of paint prep/wax remover (smells like paint thinner) which eventually got the stuff off without hurting the plastic. Then I spent a few hours polishing with Novus but I still wasn't satisfied with the result. I'll have to go back and do some more later. I added a pair of Erik_Buell_Racing decals and some 3M carbon fiber stripes. I had intended to go farther with the carbon fiber stuff- it can supposedly be molded to any shape with a little heat but it was beyond my abilities.   I had intended to go farther with the carbon fiber stuff- it can supposedly be molded to any shape with a little heat (see the pics of the 1125R in their forum) but it was beyond my abilities. I think the subtle approach turned out OK. Oh, I also added weather stripping to the top of the right side frame rail under the seat and at the right/front edge of the seat. I had weatherstripping here at one time, then took it off and sealed the top frame openings with HVAC aluminum tape. After tearing my engine down I was a little concerned that was holding in a little too much heat; the tape is bound to cut down the airflow when the fan isn't running. I figured the weatherstripping was a good compromise- it keeps the hot air off your right leg but allows some air to blow up through the frame openings and exit under the seat. I may have to go back eventually and line the bottom of the seat pan with HVAC tape because I'm sure it'll get hotter with the hot engine air blowing against it. It's good for the time being though. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Looks nice. | ||
| Someday |
Hugh, That's an interesting windshield addition. Who makes it and does it work? PS: Great write up, followed the whole saga and glad it's working out! | ||
| Sharkguy |
Lookin good Hugh, glad your enjoying the "new" 09 motor. Great write up. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Someday- That's a Laminar Lip: http://www.laminarlip.com/xbxu.php. It works OK, but I haven't compared it to anything except the stock (low) windshield. Glad y'all enjoyed the write-up. | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Hugh- We followed your progress with awe. So glad it is "whole" again and you are putting some miles on. Speaking of putting miles on, how are those new tires working out? We just got a set for the XT. After working thru some heat related hiccups with both the X and XT last week, gonna get new PR2's mounted in prep for my MN trip this summer. Curious, please do tell. Thx and happy riding! B. | ||
| Portero72 |
Hugh- Great job on all the work, you are my hero. Not to derail the thread, but having owned both an 06 and now an 09, my impression was that the 06/07 motors pulled MUCH harder under 4000 rpm. Just my assomometer, though... | ||
| Hughlysses |
BeLinda- Thanks. I'm liking the PR3's very much so far. There's not a lot in the way of twisties around here but they stick like glue as far as I've been able to push them. I haven't had them in the rain yet but that's supposed to be where they really shine. I read somewhere that the PR3 actually has the same rubber compounds as the PR2; they've just got a more advanced tread design that will shed water better in the wet. Mark- Interesting observation on your 06/09s. Maybe it's just a bike-by-bike thing rather than a really an 06/07 vs. 08/09/10 thing. I suspect it's been a long time since my 07 was "whole" (I'm almost certain that muffler actuator has been broken for well over a year). That may be the reason for most of the improvement. | ||
| Prowler |
"According to what Erik Buell Racing told Roland (I think I'm remembering this right), there was apparently a bad batch of cranks in 2007" Is this true? It's the first I've heard regarding possible bad crankshafts on '07's. Does anybody have any idea what the time frame was for this bad "batch of cranks"? | ||
| Mnviking |
Hugh, How many miles did you have on your ride before it blew up? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Nicholas- My bike had about 28,500 miles on it when the knock developed. I bought it new & broke it in by the book. I changed the oil at 100 miles, 1000 miles (1st dealer service), 2500 miles, & 5000 miles (HD conventional oil). At 5500 miles, I changed to Mobil-1 V-Twin 20W-50 synth & changed it at 2500 to 5000 mile intervals after that. Prior to the big failure, the worst problem I had was a failed rear rocker gasket at about 15000 miles IIRC. (Repaired under warranty.) The bike was occasionally ridden hard but never abused. | ||
| Rdkingryder |
Yes, I was told by a tech at Eric Buell Racing that, "It may be the crank. The pins were poor quality on these engines we are sorry to say. The 08 and up has a better crankshaft with a bigger pin, which helped a lot. H-D just had the production capacity ramped up so much at that time that the quality in the engines was marginal. The big pin bought over capacity of bearing surfaces which was more forgiving." Scary. I'm in the same boat as Hugh. Noise started around 28K, used Harley dino until around 5K then switched to Harley Synth, changed every 3-5K intervals with new Buell filters. | ||
| Mnviking |
Hugh, Now I'm a little nervous. Mine is an 07', bought it in Feb with about 6k on it. Nearing 10k now. So far running like a raped ape. Did you find any metal in the oil on oil changes leading up to the failure? Anything I should be looking for? | ||
| Hughlysses |
Nicholas- Hopefully this applies to a limited number of 07's and you don't have anything to worry about. I didn't notice anything unusual until the problem happened. I'd changed the oil about 3000 miles previously and didn't notice an unusual amount of particles on the magnetic drain plug. Of course, even AFTER the problem, there weren't a huge amount of particles on the drain plug. About the only suggestion I can offer is to start sending off a sample of your oil for analysis after each oil change. Here's one outfit that does them: http://www.blackstone-labs.com/ I'm pretty sure they could identify a trend from the analyses that would give you some warning prior to a catastrophic failure. Also spend some time at the forums at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com for more info. | ||
| Mnviking |
Also forgot to mention...I love the carbon fiber striping on your bike. | ||
| Skifastbadly |
For both Hugh and I, the ship hit the sand at ~30K. Even worst case, Mn, you have another 20 to go. | ||
| Mnviking |
I don't suppose the motor company had a recall for the 07' cranks? | ||
| Hughlysses |
No recall. We don't have enough info to really know how big of a problem it is, but Erik Buell Racing seems to confirm it was a known issue. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
Maybe you guys should report your failures to the NHSTA. That is how recalls get initiated. If nobody complains then there is no problem. | ||
| Electraglider_1997 |
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ (Message edited by electraglider_1997 on June 03, 2011) | ||
| Hughlysses |
Craig- I don't think this is worth pursuing with NHSTA. There's no way you could consider this a safety issue, as the failure occurred over a relatively long period and did not result in the engine failing to run. I put ~300 miles on the Uly yesterday going to an SC state-wide ADVrider lunch. It was in the high 90's here yesterday. Rode another ~60 miles in similar heat today. I've probably got 700 or 800 miles on the engine by now. After my ride today, I checked the oil using the generally recommended procedure of leaving the bike running and it was SMACK in the middle of the operating range on the dipstick which would indicate ZERO oil consumption, so I continue to be happy with my "new" engine. Gas mileage is down from the 07 engine so far; I got in the low 40's for the first couple of tanks but it did better on the long ride yesterday (secondary roads at ~60-65 MPH). About 44 on the trip up and about 46 on the trip back, on what was supposedly ethanol-free gas. Even in 90+ degree temps, the fan doesn't come on with the bike cruising at ~65 MPH. Some of that is no doubt due to the larger oil cooler on the 09 engine, but I'm sure some is due to some changes I made on my bike. I had the frame openings above the rear cylinder head blocked off with HVAC tape with the old engine. This was really effective at keeping heat away from the seat in combination with the Comfort Kit. After finding some slight signs of oil coking in the rear head during the old engine tear down, I decided to leave the tape off with the new engine. Instead, I installed weatherstripping on top of the frame underneath the forward/side edges of the seat. The only drawback to this arrangement is you still get a substantial amount of hot air blowing against the underside of the seat when the fan's not running. My rear roasted on that long trip yesterday, even with a sheepskin on the seat. I went back this morning and cover the bottom of the seat with HVAC aluminum tape this morning, and that seems to help. | ||
| Buellerxt |
Hugh, do you check your pm's? I sent you one but you must not have received it. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Mike- yea, I check regularly. I got an e-mail from you back on May 20 and replied to that; did you get the reply? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It's odd but the 2008 and up bikes seem to be more thirsty. My X1 will get over 50 MPG pretty much every time. My friend's 2004 XB12S is pretty much the same, even getting into the 60's on a long trip. My 2008 XB12X gets mid 40's all the time with no oil consumption. Before it was broken in, it was getting 30's and consuming oil. | ||
| Buellerxt |
I didn't get it, Hugh. Let's try again. PM sent. |
