| Author | Message | ||
     Pwillikers |
2009 1125cr - When I start it up first thing in the AM, it starts and runs for about three seconds at 2K RPMs then dies. It restarts fine but dies again. It'll do this three or four times before it settles into a low, rough idle. After it warms up, it'll start up and keep running as it should at the normal idle (~1300RPM). Also, it is way down on mid-range power. Again, in the AM, about a mile into my commute after the "cold" warning on the instrument cluster changes to the "AT, Gear" readout, at 4K RPM, if I whack the throttle wide open, it makes intake noise like the throttle bodies are opening as they should, but there's really not much power. It almost doesn't accelerate. If I do the same above 6K RPM, it seems there's the normal amount (lots) of power. After it warms up to good and hot some of the mid-range power returns. These symptoms sound to me like there is a bad sensor in somewhere the fuel injection circuit (maybe a bad temperature sensor?) that is causing the FI to deliver an inappropriate mixture for the conditions. Has anyone experienced this? I intend to check for stored fault codes but have not done so yet since I don't have the manual here at work. Any suggestions? | ||
| D_adams |
Possibly the IAC is going out, but I would warm the bike at least until the flashing "cold" is gone before leaving the driveway. | ||
| Syonyk |
Low on gas, or bad gas? But, yes, it does sound like a bad sensor somewhere. My first guess would actually be the throttle position sensor (TPS). This is easy enough to check from diagnostic mode, and if it's off, it's easy to recalibrate. | ||
| 1_mike |
Two things - 1. Have you had the latest maps installed into the ECM ? Sounds like you need some additional fuel in a few places. Unfortunatly....this is normal and usually requires external help...! 2. Sounds like you are a victim of the IAC (I think it's called) This is a system that blocks the rear throttle from fully opening at full or near full throttle. This is a emissions thing. Most remove this controller as I have to cure the problem. Note: both of these things can be pretty much fixed by a call to Erik Buell Racing at get one of their "race" ECM's. Mike | ||
| Fresnobuell |
My first guess would actually be the throttle position sensor (TPS) I agree. Reset the TPS. I had the same symptoms one morning at the track one day after re-installing the Erik Buell Racing ECM. After multiple fire and dies, I reset the TPS on a whim and voila! Sweet music.} | ||
| Jules |
1_Mike - the IAC (Idle Air Control Valve) and the Active Intake Solenoid are two different things. The solenoid is the EPA regulatory noise POS that doesn't need to be there and occassionally causes issues at a specific rev range in a specific gear, the other adjusts the idle mixture (an oversimplification) and is controlled by the ECM. First (easy) thing to do is the TPS reset (as suggested) - have you checked for any error codes? | ||
| Fresnobuell |
TPS reset procedure: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/561521.html?1285617127 | ||
| Pwillikers |
Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm relatively certain that I have all the latest software updates. I should have mentioned that the first thing I did was reset the TPS. It made no improvement. The AT readout on the IC is accurate (at least it's as accurate as it has ever been - which isn't so accurate). Is that where the FI logic gets it's air temp input? If it were the Active Intake Solenoid interceding, wouldn't it exhibit the bad behavior independent of engine temperature? I haven't checked for fault codes. I'll do that tonight when I get home. | ||
| Zac4mac |
It's a lot hotter in Austin than here.. Next time you start it, go into Diagnostic mode and check the fuel pump pressure.   There's more in the FSM, more yet in the Electrical Diag Man. but this ought to get you started... Z | ||
| Pwillikers |
2009 Buell 1125cr Diagnostics Output - Hot Engine Error Codes: FuelPumpSysErr,LowFuelSysErr Battery V: 12.0 Coolant T: 94.5 C Coolant V: .9 Air Temp: 43.5 C Air V: 2.9 TPS %: 2.0 TPS V: .5 Clutch State: 0 V Speed State: 1 MAP KPA: 96.5 MAP V: 3.9 IAC Steps: 103 Fuel KPA: 550 Fuel V: 4.3 Frt O2 V: .4 Rear O2 V: .4 Tip Over V: 1.3 Sidestand V: 5 F Adapt Fuel: 89 R Adapt Fuel: 100 Starter RLY S: 0 Aux Power S: 0 SW: 6.1 CA: 1.0 | ||
| Pwillikers |
How do you clear the error codes? | ||
| D_adams |
Dealer replacement of the fuel pump and sensor. Take the bike to the dealer, show them the codes. Do not clear them on your own unless you KNOW the pump and sensor are both good. | ||
| Pwillikers |
I just rechecked the diagnostics with the engine cold. While in diagnostics mode, I checked the "TPS Percentage" and the "TPS Voltage" with the throttle closed and then fully open. Here's what I got and please tell me if it makes sense to you? (recall that I did reset the TPS prior). TPS Percentage (throttle closed): 2.0 TPS Percentage (throttle fully open): 53.0 TPS Voltage (throttle closed): .5 TPS Voltage (throttle fully open): 2.2 Would one of you fine souls please check your diagnostics readings for the above (or check the manual for what they should be) and report back what you observe? Thanks. | ||
| Syonyk |
TPS should be 2% closed, and 100% wide open... that's far enough out of spec that you may have a bad TPS. I don't recall the exact WOT voltage, but I think it should be somewhere around 5v. And I definitely know you should be seeing 100%. | ||
| Rob_l |
Also make sure nothing is interfering with throttle body linkage. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Would one of you fine souls please check your diagnostics readings for the above (or check the manual for what they should be) and report back what you observe? Checked out mine. TPS closed % was reading 1.5, so I was due for a reset--thanks. After reset, voltages were .6 closed and 4.0 wide open. I would suggest attempting to reset at least one more time.} | ||
| Jules |
Yeah those TPS figures are way out. 2% closed and ~100% open is where they should be. Pop the airbox cover off, take the filter off and have a look at the TB. If they look to be opening 100% but the TPS says 53% then it sounds like the TPS sensor or the feed to it. If on the other hand the TB isn't opening fully check the hose on the RHS of the airbox base, it needs to be proud of the hole otherwise it can fowl the linkage and stop the TB from opening. | ||
| Zac4mac |
What Jules just said, translated to American English, is the breather hose on the right side of the airbox base needs to be sticking out of its hole by ~1/4-1/2". If less is showing, it's probably rubbing & interfering with the throttle. Z | ||
| Zacks |
hey Zack, don't be giving Jules trouble. Any woodworker or machinist uses that same term. Now... fowl instead of foul, that I can't agree with.  | ||
| Jules |
Shucks... I could claim it's the old English/American language difference, when in reality it's just me choosing the wrong fowl/foul spelling.. And I was trying sooo hard too  | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
what should the fuel pressure be? never mind i see in the flow chart. mines low when key on and engine off but WNL while running. having basically the exact same issues the OP is. (Message edited by boogiman1981 on April 21, 2011) | ||
| Pwillikers |
I received a request from a member of this fine fraternity asking for the ultimate diagnosis and solution to this problem (which I carelessly omitted). I had had the bike into the dealer for warranty service prior to the appearance of this behavior. The tech had fouled the throttle cable routing such that the throttle plates were not fully opening. The diagnoses was done by looking down the throttle bodies and observing that the throttle plates were only opening half way. Properly re-routing the throttle cables totally alleviated the issue. |
