| Author | Message | ||
     Firstbuell |
from a 'big picture' perspective, I'm particularly heartened by the manufacturers' variety [& the decent class parity], illustrated by each of these 3 lists: Superpole results: Pos No. Rider Bike Time Diff 1 7 C. CHECA Ducati 1098R 1'28.099 2 91 L. HASLAM BMW S1000 RR 1'28.365 0.266 3 66 T. SYKES Kawasaki ZX-10R 1'28.556 0.457 4 96 J. SMRZ Ducati 1098R 1'28.561 0.462 5 41 N. HAGA Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'28.673 0.574 6 1 M. BIAGGI Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'28.702 0.603 7 2 L. CAMIER Aprilia RSV4 Factory 1'28.737 0.638 8 4 J. REA Honda CBR1000RR 1'29.514 1.415 9 33 M. MELANDRI Yamaha YZF R1 1'28.803 0.614 6 brands in top 9 Race 1 results: 1. Marco Melandri, Italy (Yamaha YZF-R1), 23 laps, 34:33.189, 99.837 mph 2. Jakub Smrz, Czech Republic (Ducati 1098R), -2.455 seconds 3. Carlos Checa, Spain (Duc 1098R), -5.839 4. Leon Haslam, Great Britain (BMW S1000RR), -6.176 5. Jonathan Rea, Great Britain (Honda CBR1000RR), -9.039 6. Noriyuki Haga, Japan (Aprilia RSV4 Factory), -9.215 7. Max Biaggi, Italy (Apr RSV4 Factory), -9.960, ran off track 8. Leon Camier, Great Britain (Apr RSV4 Factory), -14.860 9. Troy Corser, Australia (BMW S1000RR), -14.877 10. Joan Lascorz, Spain (Kawasaki ZX-10R), -16.182 6 brands in top 10 Race 2 results: 1. Carlos Checa, Spain (Ducati 1098R), 23 laps, 34:21.537, 100.402 mph 2. Marco Melandri, Italy (Yamaha YZF-R1), -3.397 seconds 3. Leon Camier, Great Britain (Apilia RSV4 Factory), -5.902 4. Leon Haslam, Great Britain (BMW S1000RR), -13.842, ran off track 5. Joan Lascorz, Spain (Kawasaki ZX-10R), -14.253 6. Jonathan Rea, Great Britain (Honda CBR1000RR), -19.413 7. Michel Fabrizio, Italy (Suzuki GSX-R1000), -20.278 7 brands in top 7 ! I advocate that ^^^^^this ^^^^^ is what SBK is all about - can you imagine AMA Pro SBK with this level of manufacturer mixing-it-up? finally, here's a loverly EurosportUK vid of 3 Brit ex-racers + moderator, discussing MarcoMax: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfC28H3ria8 | ||
| Jaimec |
Seems kind of ironic that the Ducati factory petulantly pulled out of WSBK last year because, in their words, there was no way they could compete against the MotoGP replicas the other manufacturers were using in the current rules structure. Carlos was doing just fine last year without any factory support. Supposedly this year Althea is a thinly disguised factory effort WITHOUT the official blessing. He seems to be doing just fine against the "MotoGP Replicas" the other manufacturers are running. Whiny cry babies. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
If Rossi improved the R1 in just 1 test , why is he so slow on the Duc GP11 ???? I know , I know , it is his "shoulder".....  It has been said a thousand times , Ducati pulled out of WSBK to put all their resourced to Rossi's motoGP campaign. The rest were bad excusses......... At least Ducati has the same weight as the rest at 165kg this year. Last year they started with +3kg, which makes a difference at this level. | ||
| Trojan |
If Rossi improved the R1 in just 1 test , why is he so slow on the Duc GP11 ???? When Rossi tested the R1 last year he gave the techs exactly the same feedback that Toseland and Crutchlow had been telling them all year. For some reason when Rossi said it they took more notice than when the regular riders gave the same information! It has been said a thousand times , Ducati pulled out of WSBK to put all their resourced to Rossi's motoGP campaign. The rest were bad excusses......... It has been said a thousand times by people who ignore the truth and need to have a conspiracy theory! Ducati pulled out of WSB becaue they are developing a new WSB superbike and wanted to put their resources into that rather than pay a team to run the current 1198 (the factory team was not run directly by the factory but was a paid 'outside' organisation). The money Rossi has cost for the GP team is covered by Philip Morris (Marlboro) and other sponsors, so Ducati haven't had to scrap or hold back on anything in order to to afford him. You used to praise the WSBK for its close racing , and now suddenly you call it "diesel" and boring??? WSB has always been called the Diesel class ever since GP racing was all 2 stroke. Nothing new there.... I like close racing wherever it may be found. It doesn't matter to me if it is WSB, GP or MZ club racing (or even XR1200 racing  ) These days though it just appears to be much more sanitised and clinical for me, adn lacks that 'something' to make it more exciting. Racing was certainly closer in WSB than GP recently, but it just had a kind of inevitability about it that took some of the excitiement away  A bit like F1 in a way....all winter we have been told that the new rules will make overtaking easier and the teams closer, but as soon as the season starts you know it isn't true and the status quo has been retained from last year maybe we need to reverse the grids and get the fast guys to start from the back I wonder which would be worse... a wheel snapping off at the spokes on a single sided swingarm (as what happened to Berger), or a wheel snapping off at the spokes on a regular dual-sided swing arm? Berger was very lucky it broke at the slowest corner adnnot in Craner Curves! remember when Robert Dunlop's Dymag rear wheel broke up on his Honda RC45 at the IOM? Big accident! | ||
| Crusty |
remember when Robert Dunlop's Dymag rear wheel broke up on his Honda RC45 at the IOM? Big accident! I hope Blake doesn't see this, or it could be fodder for more endless argument on why the TT should be banned!  | ||
| Blake |
>>> If Rossi improved the R1 in just 1 test , why is he so slow on the Duc GP11 ???? I know , I know , it is his "shoulder" You might consider when that test was, and also what Matt said. | ||
| Jaimec |
Blake, in case you haven't figured it out, Vagelis46 is an adamant "Rossi Hater" and anyone who disagrees with him is a Rabid Rossi Fan Boi. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I hope Blake doesn't see this, or it could be fodder for more endless argument on why the TT should be banned! I've never proposed any such thing. | ||
| Jaimec |
"Old Man" Checa gets his third consecutive Pole Position! Marco crashed and has to start from Row 2. Leon Haslam relegated outside of the top 10 (I missed what happened... WHAT HAPPENED??). Races should be interesting tomorrow... | ||
| Crusty |
Wouldn't it be a hoot if Smrz won? | ||
| 46champ |
I hope Blake doesn't see this 1. fat chance 2. not going to happen 3. I don't think Blake misses much of anything | ||
| Jaimec |
Carlos is definitely "Clueless Chucker" no more! | ||
| Imonabuss |
Checa is badass. | ||
| Trojan |
"Old Man" Checa gets his third consecutive Pole Position! Marco crashed and has to start from Row 2. Leon Haslam relegated outside of the top 10 (I missed what happened... WHAT HAPPENED??). Checa has certainly found his comfort zone in WSB riding the Ducati and is a different rider to the 'careless chucker' of MotoGP days. Even after he joined WSB he looked less than stellar on the Ten Kate Honda so he has certainly gone through a huge tranformation in the last couple of years! His race two win was a masterclass in conserving tyres and gave Biaggi a lesson in overtaking too ! Haslam had issues with his electronics in Superpole (in that they weren't working at all!) which pretty much made the BMW unrideable apparently. His race pace wasn't that much better either and he looked a shadow of his former self this weekend. I bet he is starting to regret his move to BMW already Kawasaki were very poor in both races it seemed. Tom Sykes ran with the leaders for 8 laps and then went backwards at an alarmiing rate once his soft tyre went off. I think they still have a way to go to catch Ducati/Honda/Yamaha/Aprilia thats for sure. It was good to see 6 different makes in the top six for a while though.... Supersport race was excellent once it eventually got going, and Chaz Davies at last scored a long overdue win in the class He lead all 3 starts so certainly deserved to be the winner. Pity about Sam Lowes and Gino Rea though as I thought they could both challenge for podium places. | ||
| Jaimec |
That last lap pass on Biaggi was "poetry." And Max looks like he's recovered from whatever demons possessed him in Donington, which is good to see. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
The WSBK rules are working, for fair racing 2cylinder against 4cylinder bikes. Great !!! I also feel sorry for Haslam, what a waste of a great rider. BMW is not looking good. But he should not be disappointed , Checa is on the best form of his life at his 39years. Leon has many years in front of him. Is Haslam under a 2 year contract in BMW ??? | ||
| Jaimec |
Makes you wonder (AGAIN) why Ducati pulled their factory support, claiming they just couldn't compete with the "MotoGP Replicas" from the other manufacturers. Surely we've all gotten TIRED of their unfounded and unsubstantiated whining and complaining by now?? First they claimed they needed a 25% displacement advantage over the IL4 750s in order to compete. When they started completely DOMINATING the field in every Superbike series, the other manufacturers were also allowed to run 1000cc bikes. Then, despite Bayliss winning day in and day out against 1000cc fours, Ducati whined that they needed a 20% displacement in order to compete fairly with the IL4 1000s. So they got that. And AGAIN they complain they can't compete with the rules as they are despite Checa running away from the competition this year? What do these whiny cry-babies want?? Just form a "Ducati Series" like Harley did for the XR1200 and SHUT UP already. Sheesh. I'm glad the FIM FINALLY stood by their guns and left the rules alone. | ||
| Blake |
I think your understanding of the issue is missing some key facts concerning relative level of build/tune of the formerly competitive 999R and also that 1000cc vs 750cc is a 33% advantage. | ||
| Jaimec |
My math says a 750 is 3/4 of 1000... | ||
| Blake |
Mine too. But you were talking about the displacement advantage of 1000cc bikes relative to the 750cc bikes. 1000cc-750cc = 250cc 250cc/750cc = 1/3 or just 1000cc/750cc = 4/3 1000cc is 33% greater than 750cc. 750cc is 25% less than 1000cc. | ||
| Trojan |
And Max looks like he's recovered from whatever demons possessed him in Donington, which is good to see. Not really...He managed to ruin at least one of Leon Camiers superpole laps by cruising around on the racing line, and Leon was not best pleased! (At 6' + I don't think Biaggi would be slpping his face!). Biaggi picked it up for the races but I can't understand how someone of his experience can get in the way so much during qualifying unless it is deliberate. Is Haslam under a 2 year contract in BMW ??? Yes, but the big rumour is that he will move to MotoGP with BMW in 2012 alongside Stefan Bradl. However if BMW can't sort out their electronics in WSB they have no chance in MotoGP! Makes you wonder (AGAIN) why Ducati pulled their factory support, claiming they just couldn't compete with the "MotoGP Replicas" from the other manufacturers. Surely we've all gotten TIRED of their unfounded and unsubstantiated whining and complaining by now?? They didn't pull factory support, just the 'factory' team. Checa is riding what is effectively a full fat factory 2011 model Ducati, has a garage full of ex factory techs with him and the team have unrivalled access to the factory race shop apparently. Remember they may only have one WSB rider but Althea are heavily involved in with Ducati in Superstock and Italian Superbike as well. However I do agree that Ducati have managed to manipulate the rules for years while they were the only major factory team competing. Now that they are just one of many they don't like the fact that they can't wrap the organisers around their fingers and have to run to the same rules as everyone else It will be interesting to see how the 'new' Ducati 2 cylinder superbike performs next year and if they come back with a 'factory' team again. Superbike racing is much better now that Ducati are not getting their own way, and to see 6 manufacturers taking the top six places is great for the sport. | ||
| Gaesati |
7 manufacturers in the top 7 will be even better. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
BMW in motoGP , or Suter-BMW , that is the big question ........ | ||
| Trojan |
BMW in motoGP , or Suter-BMW , that is the big question ........ That is a much bigger question than it sounds If BMW field a team then they will be subject to the full factory rules with less engines and less fuel to play with. If Suter/Marc VDS use a modified BMW S1000RR engine in their Suter frame they could be eligible to be a categorised as a CRT team next year, whcih will give them larger fuel capacity and more engines to play with. However, just to muddy the waters even further......If Suter were to get Leon Haslam and some BMW techs on board and the FIM/Dorna decided that it was a veiled attempt by BMW to get a factory bike into the CRT rules, then they could make them enter as a factory team anyway. The final decision as to who qualifies as what will be made by the organisers, so some seemingly privateer teams will end up being classified as factory adn vice versa. The racing next year may get closer and get more bikes on the grid, but the rules won't be very clear that's for sure! Personally I think it is more likely that there will be a 'private' Marc VDS Racing Suter/BMW next year (with Scott Redding and Mika Kallio on board) but with BMW keeping a close eye on progress for a possible factory return in 2013 with Haslam and Bradl. | ||
| Trojan |
Aprilia caught 'cheating' again?..... This from Twowheelsblog.com There’s a hush, hush rumor going around regarding Max Biaggi’s Aprilia RSV4 which he used at Assen and wasn’t exactly Superbike kosher. Apparently during one of the usual technical sporting checks they found that the fuel injection pump on the reigning World Champion’s bike wasn’t the same issue as the ones found on Leon Camier’s and Noriyuki Haga’s Aprilia’s and it may have given Biaggi a couple of more ponies to use, max. It seems that Aprilia got a very light slap on the wrist and was told not to do it again so Biaggi won’t be loosing any of his precious championship points, and you can bet that when the Monza round (the Aprilia is favoured at the ultra fast circuit after last year’s double victory) rolls around next May everything will be kosher again. It would seem unbelievable that Aprilia could get away with this, especially after the fisaco last year regarding their cam drive system. It would appear that they have brought not only their 250GP techs with them but also the 250GP 'win at all costs' attitude! They should immediately take his Assen points/podiums away and ban him from the next round! (The irony would be that Camier would get a podium spot in his place ) Anything less is tacit approval from the organisers and opens the door for some serious rule bending to begin (if it hasn't already of course!). | ||
| Jaimec |
Geez, in the AMA they disqualified Mat Mladin and gave him ZERO points for having a crankshaft that was identical to all of the other crankshafts in use but had different embossed markings on them. The AMA even said that the crank would not have given him any performance advantage, but they docked him anyway. Big difference between the AMA and FIM, I see. | ||
| Crusty |
That wasn't the case. Mladin's crankshaft was a special endurance racing crankshaft that definitely gave him an edge. The story you just quoted was the "explanation" given on Stuporbike Planet. Roadracing world outed the truth about the crank. There's a bit more to the story, but I'm a one finger typist, and I'm not up for it tonight. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm looking, and I can't find ANY article that says the crank was an endurance racing crank that gave him any advantage. Since Superbike Planet seems to be "questionable" here, here are two articles from other sources: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=33821 http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewsArchives/2008/Septemb er/mladin_appeal_update_4.htm I'm more inclined to think it was a "Mat Mladin Witch Hunt" since he wasn't a very popular man with racing officials. The fact that he won like a machine and was arrogant about it didn't help his cause. Biaggi is every bit as arrogant, and I get the impression he is just about as well-liked on the WSBK grid as Mladin was on the AMA grid. The fact that he DOESN'T win as often as Mat did might make him a SLIGHTLY more sympathetic figure. I don't know. My point being, I think Biaggi's discovered infraction seems a lot worse than Mat's, yet Mat had the book thrown at him and Max doesn't even get his face slapped. That's the difference between AMA Pro Racing and the FIM. | ||
| Trojan |
Now that the WSB organisers have entieced the factories back it would appear that they are scared of upsetting them (except Ducati of course!) so are being unduly lenient it seems. A couple of years ago this would have been an instant ban and reduction in points, now it is not so much as a written warning! Almost as unbeleivable though is the other factory teams not making the most of this and protesting the Aprilia fuel pump. Either they think it is a non issue or they don't want to start a 'protest war' and opening up engines just in case they get caught cheating too  Either way it stinks if there is any truth to it | ||
| Crusty |
Jaime; try this link: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=34175 |
