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     Pegasusrider |
There's an article in RRW talking about the Isle of Mann organizers wanting to make an international series http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=43693 Probably a pipe dream there could be one here in the US, but just for fun, what do you think the best place in the US would be for a race like that? Or in any country for that matter. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stirz007 |
If it does come to pass, I hope it would be in keeping with the IOM concept: Something with some distance that can be closed off for at least a couple of days. A public road course, but not so far in the boonies that you can't draw a decent crowd. Is there anything like that in U.S. auto racing? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Blood sport. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Probably a pipe dream there could be one here in the US, but just for fun, what do you think the best place in the US would be for a race like that? Or in any country for that matter Apparently they already have a US location in mind and that would be the first round of any prospective championship  Blood sport. Nobody gets forced into 'real' road racing, so they are all big boys who know the risks involved | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
Nobody gets forced into 'real' road racing, so they are all big boys who know the risks involved : ) Agreed. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
It's all a matter of adult choices. We all know what's at stake - IOM is just run with a higher risk level. Happens on the road, on the track, club racing and at the Isle. Sometimes things don't end well. Good friend of mine that played with me in junior high orchestra - 1966, 1967 (he was violin, I viola) - Pancho Spain - in , was killed in front of me in our Formula 50 race a couple years ago at Willow. It happens. We all know - they all know. Same debate, same arguments | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Fast1075 |
Coming up, the IOM was THE race. Deadly or not...the ultimate racing challenge...But then again in those days INDY was THE auto race (at least in the US). Heady days of unrestricted thinking and huge leaps in technology. I have seen with my own eyes one of the bikes that Hailwood rode to victory...six cylinders of GP awesomness...to imagine him riding THAT bike on THOSE roads with THOSE tires and brakes....the man had 10 pound stones and so did his competitors....I get a shiver when I imagine the sound of 6 cylinders at 19,000 rpm...the wind rushing around the "pudding bowl" helmet and goggles...Iron men. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M1combat |
Knock it off Blake... How many people do the same thing with NO sanctioning body what so ever? A LOT. They do it for the thrill. At least these guys have a real competition to participate in. THIS is what they want to do. They'll race "normal" races too, but they CHOOSE the island. One would never tell a rider that they must do something like the IOM. They wouldn't/couldn't be successful in that case. So stop trolling on your own damn board OK . You can think what you want about the race but go make your own thread about it K ? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
I can't knock it off and it damn sure isn't trolling. It is my 100% honest view on the matter. It's a different matter entirely when people are profiting off of blood sport and looking to promote and expand it for financial gain. It sickens me to the core. That course is unsuitable for racing motorcycles, today more than ever. My heroes are the men who step up and take care of their families, not those who risk their lives unnecessarily to win glory in a horrendously dangerous motorcycle race. Think Matt Mladin, Colin Edwards, Kenny Roberts, etc. That IOM course compares to no other in the lives, blood and crippled bodies it has claimed. No other venue is even close. I had no idea. Eighty-four dead just since 1990, four last year. What a honest to God bloody nightmare! The Isle of Man Department of Tourism and Leisure should be ashamed of themselves. The world's racing sanctioning bodies had the good sense to drop the venue back in the '80s. But apparently some of the greed-heads couldn't let it go. It's disgusting that people see fit to profit from such a bloody mess. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Mat Mladin...Hero? The guy never made it in WSB/MotoGP so after one poor stab at it made sure he just raced for money for the rest of his career. certainly not a hero of mine. If he was as good as he thought he was he should have done what Spies did and take his talent to the big wide world instead of being the mercenary he was for his entire career Mladin had a fraction of the talent of Joey Dunlop, Mike Hailwood, Agostini and other IOM racers over the years, but earned a lot more by sticking to his relatively 'safe' career in the biggest team in AMA racing. Eighty-four dead just since 1990, four last year. What a honest to God bloody nightmare! The Isle of Man Department of Tourism and Leisure should be ashamed of themselves. How many competitors and how many miles covered in that time? The medics and safety standards at the IOM are the best in the racing world. ALL competitors know the risks and know the nature of the track, so your arguments really don't hold water at all. The IOM makes almost nothing from the TT races and ploughs anything that they do make into future races and into the Manx GP, which is purely amatuer. Lastly, how many people have died scuba diving, rock climbing or just crossing the street since 1990? Come to think of it, how many have just died in their sleep since that time? Riders at the IOM are doing what THEY want to do, not trying to make a profit like Mladin did for his entire career. By the way, if Mladin, Edwards etc really did put their family first then none of them would ever race at all. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Yes, my heroes are the men who look after family, not the daredevils or even top talents on motorbikes who subject themselves to extreme risk for the sake of glory. >>> The IOM makes almost nothing from the TT Baloney. >>> The medics and safety standards at the IOM are the best in the racing world. Two dead spectators in 2007 indicates the opposite. 84 dead total since 1990 indicates the opposite. >>> How many competitors and how many miles covered in that time? 84 dead since 1990, four dead last year. >>> Lastly, how many people have died scuba diving, rock climbing or just crossing the street since 1990? Your logic is fallacious. On a percentage basis about zero compared to that for participants at the IOM. The carnage rate at the IOM is unacceptably high. For profiteers to be promoting such a bloody death race and looking to expand it is shameful. We should stop clinging to nostalgia and goofy romanticized ideas of old time motorcycle racing while ignoring the horrendous human toll of a mere racing event. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Your logic is fallacious. On a percentage basis about zero compared to that for participants at the IOM. The carnage rate at the IOM is unacceptably high. For profiteers to be promoting such a bloody death race and looking to expand it is shameful. You are just plain wrong on this I'm afraid. Thousands of racers compete at the IOM every year in both the TT and ManxGP + other minor short circuit events (in addition to the many many thousands of spectators who ride the course). If you tot up the individual mileage of every competitor and rider that decides to ride around the TT course since 1990 I think you'll find that racing at the TT is probably statistically safer than crossing the road outside your house or driving to work every day. Of course the TT track is dangerous...it is a narrow country public road after all... so cannot have safe run off areas or catch fencing like a purpose built circuit would have. However if you ever visited you would see just how well trained and organised the marshalls and medical staff are (far better than most short circuit medical staff!). EVERY rider at the TT/Manx knows the risks involved before they decide to race there, and many ONLY race on real road circuits in Ireland and the IOM all year, so are not deluded into thinking they can race there in complete safety or get rich doing so. They take a calculated risk and decide to compete in the sport they love, just as rock climbers, free divers, base jumpers do every day. The IOM toursit board ploughs millions into safety and hosting of the TT every year. If you think they are getting fat and rich out of it you are very much mistaken. The ferry company shipping spectators over is getting rich but that is about it! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
Oh dear and to think I avoid arguments on religion on sportbike boards and here we go again, arguing "Truth" | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Oh dear and to think I avoid arguments on religion on sportbike boards and here we go again, arguing "Truth" I don't think there is any truth when it comes to doing dangerous things, just choice. It just depends on your level of acceptance really. I happen to think that horse racing is cruel and dangerous (to the horses). At least the jockety gets to choose whether to do it or not. Likewise with bike racing, the rider can choose if he wants to race at the IOM, on short circuits only or not at all. Nobody has a gun to their head when they apply for race places at the IOM and there is a significant over application every year with more entrants than places. Ultimately ALL motor racing is dangerous, as is most of life, so do we stop doing anything remotely harmful just in case? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
Blake, what number of deaths is acceptable for an event where someone makes money? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gregtonn |
Blake, Let's get real here. Real motorcycle racing ain't no video game. Or would you prefer that it were? G | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Slaughter |
Matt - you and I are in complete agreement. I've gone to 3 memorials for racer-friends in the decade that I've been racing. Either somebody accepts it for what it is (from the spectator's perspective) - or they choose not to. It is their choice. It IS a religious-like act of faith whether one supports "True" road racing, or any activity with a higher level of risk. Let's maybe eliminate risk. We can start the "Comfy Chair" thread where we discuss diets and levels of comfort that can be achieved in our chair, couch and bed choices. Maybe for those pushing the envelope, a side discussion on healthier snack chips... though snack foods have known health risks... | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stirz007 |
Random thoughts - **Danger = Fun **Over the last 10 years, average skier/snowboarding deaths per year = 40.6 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHSfh87GnFc **In the U.S. annual traffic fatalities ranged from 37,000 to 44,000 from 1961 to present. **In the U.K., in 2004, there were 121 accidents involving buses that resulted in a death (not all were actually hit by a bus). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR8913v_WCE **About a hundred people die from lightning in the U.S. each year. Of those, about 5 are killed while playing golf. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGdfbovPCFc&NR=1&fe ature=fvwp **Lots of ways to go, and almost all of them involve someone making money off the deal - the undertaker always gets paid - that's why he has the nicest car in town... I'd still like to see an actual road race in the U.S., but think the liability issues would be a challenge for anyone trying to organize it. **Interestingly, Baseball is the highest risk sport for fatalities for children (5-14) - and according to this link, CHEERLEADING is ranked just behind the IOM. http://listverse.com/2009/06/18/top-10-incredibly- dangerous-sports/ It comes down to perspective and opinion, I guess. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
Heck, you can make a pretty good argument that pro football is killing or incapacitating many men a very young age from repeated blows to the head. The violence is what sells pro football. It is glorified and pays everyone involved very well. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
>>> If you tot up the individual mileage of every competitor and rider that decides to ride around the TT course since 1990 I think you'll find that racing at the TT is probably statistically safer than crossing the road outside your house or driving to work every day. I don't believe that for one second. Four people died as a result of IOM racing last year. The entire FIM WSBK and complete with support classes hasn't seen such carnage for combined decades worth of racing. The point is not that a commercial activity be free of risk, that is a straw man. My point is that the activity not be a blood sport, virtually guaranteed to result in death every single year it runs. People want to race there, fine, I'm all for freedom. I'm opposed to people profiting from and helping to glorify such a deadly bloody event. If all the IOM riders were compensated like NFL players, you could use that argument. They aren't. The opposite is true. Most of them surely lose money to race at IOM. The ferry company as indicated is surely making plenty of money, so too are the hotels and restaurants. How could they not? Now we have big media with all the advertising revenue getting into the game. It is despicable. I dare them to show the reality of not just the people who have been killed due to IOM motorcycle racing, but all those who suffered debilitating injury. To pretend that the IOM TT isn't generating massive revenue for local businesses is just an untenable position. Why else would they be looking to promote and grow the event? Please. There is a reason why the vast majority of the worlds top professional motorcycle racers and racing organizations refuse to run at IOM, it is unacceptably deadly with zero margin for error. What would be acceptable? A venue with a safety margin similar to most any popular racing circuit in WSBK, BSBK, or AMA SBK. You know one where if you run a few feet wide you don't get bounced off a ludicrous stack of hay bales into a stone wall. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Did not Giacomo Agostini quit road racing due to the unacceptable death toll? Wasn't it his refusal in the early '70s to race at the Isle of Man TT and the Ulster Grand Prix that led to their removal from the Grand Prix championship calendar? Using his name to support such events makes no sense. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
From a press release issued by Isle of Man TT Press Office: Isle of Man Government’s Department of Economic Development Research Global TT Races Series Not commercially motivated you say? Please. Let them get on a motorcycle and risk their lives. Despicable money-grubbing greed-heads. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
I just fired off the following to RRW: It's been over a year since the Isle of Man (IOM) announced that they were looking to grow the event and attract more media and spectator interest. Last year four more racers died competing on the Isle's road coarse, bringing the total death toll to 81 dead since 1990. Now we witness the IOM event promoters stepping up their brazen efforts yet again to promote their commercial interests in the deadly motorcycle racing there. See http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=43693 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Pegasusrider |
Wow, didn't think this thread would take that turn. Anyways, I sent an e-mail to IOM letting them know I'd love to see a race here in the US. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
Blake, your are wacky, love but you are wacky on this topic. So far off the target I can't won't even start. The organizers are. almost to the man and woman, racers many of whom who have lost friends and family to the TT. It the Government of the Isle of Man was mostly concerned about money they would have cancelled the thing long ago and concentrated on the industries that actually generate the vast majority of money in the local economy; off shore banking and internet gambling. The TT is peanuts in the total GDP of the country, 1.8 billion euros in 2008, only 2% of the population works in tourism related industries, there ain't no money here! They promote to keep it alive BECAUSE they love it and to not promote it is to kill it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gregtonn |
"Wow, didn't think this thread would take that turn." Killing the IOM has been Blake's pet project for some time now. Kinda like when Ralph Nader campaigned to kill the Corvair. G | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Trojan |
Blake has been on an anti TT crusade for a while, and like most crusades it won't be veered off course by logical argument unfortunately  However, I have just read that the sport that claims the most lives worldwide every year appears to be lawn bowls, so I hope he can widen his campaign to encompass this and other high risk sports such as rodeo riding, cave diving, base jumping, mountain climbing, bunjee jumping, heli skiing (whatever that is!), yachting, surfing and of course cheerleading (which appears on pretty much every list of top ten dangerous sports -honestly!). The TT was there before blake came along, and I'm pretty sure it will be there long after we have all gone/ | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Davegess |
The TT was there before blake came along, and I'm pretty sure it will be there long after we have all gone/ Yeah likely true. The TT is sorta like climbing Mount Everest, although not nearly as dangerous. A dangerous challenge that some people have to undertake. Everest makes the TT look like a day in the sandbox, what with the new climbing tourism industry taking hundreds of people up each year and one in six dieing. Blake needs to go after these guys; leading folks to their deaths for money. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
You guys no read good. I even put it in bright red boldface print. I am not proposing that racing there be banned. I'm saying that we should oppose the greedy commercialization and profiteering of such a horrifically deadly event by government and corporate interests. Four dead per year on average since 1990 and nothing to protest in what appears to be commercialization of the event? Dave, I agree. I don't support any government or commercial activity promoting climbing Everest either. And rather than glorifying it on the Discovery channel, I've seen responsible reporting detailing the horrific risk and deadly history of the mountain and the cost of the recent tourism mode of operations there. It was made very clear how incredibly dumb it was for people to think of the activity as routine or low risk. Also, a number very vocal groups of mountain climbing enthusiasts have indeed spoken out vigorously condemning the tour leaders and the notion of commercializing Everest ascents. I've not seen any such reporting in the popular television media concerning IOM motorcycle racing. (Message edited by Blake on March 23, 2011) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Stirz007 |
Everest has actually gotten "safer". The ratio for a long time was 1 to 1. Your chance of summiting was about the same as dying. (For each climber who summited, there was one death on the mountain). In my 20's and 30's I was into that stuff and it was REALLY easy to get into 'you screw up, you die' situations. But as I saw it then and see it now, it's about free agency - only the participant can really make the decision as to whether to go forth or not. These are not armchair quarterback sports. |
