| Author | Message | ||
     Vagelis46 |
I thought that I was the conspiracy theorist. But it seems that I have competition now. Sepang is less than a week away. What happens when Rossi is slow again ??? | ||
| Jaimec |
Nobody will be surprised because he has already stated he doesn't expect to be at 100% until a couple of months into the season. What I'm interested in seeing, however, is what Rossi's "suggestions" do for Nicky Hayden. Nicky won his World Championship on the bike Rossi developed for Honda. Honda didn't have the benefit of Rossi and Burgess' input in the 800 era, and their results show exactly what they've missed. (Message edited by jaimec on January 25, 2011) | ||
| Trojan |
What happens when Rossi is slow again ??? What happens when he is fast?? I expect him to take it reasonably easy at this test still, but depending on his shoulder I really don't think he will be too far off the pace. I really think we won't see him try 100% until the season starts though (if then). It will certainly be an indication of improvements if Hayden can get into the top 3-4 times though. | ||
| Jaimec |
I see Rossi is testing on an 1198R today to check his physical condition. | ||
| Trojan |
I see Rossi is testing on an 1198R today to check his physical condition. What a shame it is at Misano though. Imagine the furore if he had turned up at Portimao with all the WSB guys  Biaggi would have locked himself in the bathroom! | ||
| Blake |
LOL! Too funny Matt. | ||
| Jaimec |
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresul ts/World-Superbikes/2011/January/jan2611-rossi-rid es-wsb-1198-at-misano/ | ||
| Flyboy |
I'm a Rossi fan, but the fact is, he is getting older and has a injury that can end careers. I've had shoulder surgery and am waiting for a second, and have quit competitive racing because of it....too much pain and the inability to muscle a superbike around because of it. That being said I don't expect Rossi to be a title contender, but I am curious to see what he can develop the Duc into, and sure would love to see the Rossi magic of old. Lorenzo is a machine that will be hard to beat...Spies, well he has surpised a lot of people in the past and could do it again. Stoner will be fast, and Pedrosa will remain a brides maid. There are a couple of other riders out there that could mix it up alittle from time to time, and I think it will be a interesting season. My .02 | ||
| Jaimec |
Crutchlow evaluated: http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-more -than-determination | ||
| Trojan |
The author of that piece obviously hasn't watched or spoken to Cal Crutchlow but is just filling column space waiting for the season to start. I've never read so much utter twaddle! The fist line states that McKenzie, Haslam, Hodgson, Fogarty etc didn't have success in MotoGP but fails to mention that none of them got to ride a decent bike for most of their career in GP's either! All except Toseland were pretty much saddled with poor quality underfunded privateer rubbish for the majority of their time in GP racing. McKenzie finished 4th in his first GP season riding for Suzuki though, and Ron Haslam got some good results once he got off the Elf hub centre steered bike  Crutchlow has yet to turn a wheel in anger in MotoGP yet is already being written off by this guy and plenty of other people who should no better. Why? It is a little unfair to compare him to Ben Spies or to anyone else yet. Give him a season to settle in and then compare their respective rookie GP season maybe? | ||
| Jaimec |
Matt, back in the two-stroke days you didn't NEED a factory ride to be competitive. Lots of riders fought for podiums, not just the factory riders. Hell, even with the 990 four-strokes, satellite riders like Sete Gibernau and Marco Melandri were always threats to stand on the top step of the podium. Wasn't until this idiotic move to 800s that you needed a factory bike (except Suzuki) to challenge for a win. | ||
| Trojan |
Wasn't until this idiotic move to 800s that you needed a factory bike (except Suzuki) to challenge for a win. I'd agree that during the 1970's you could win with a 'proper' privateer bike, when an over the counter TZ350 or RG500 could be competitive and even win races. However back then even factory riders carried the bike around in the back of a van and did most of their own mechanical work between races. A 'factory' bike was just one that the rider didn't have to pay for! From the early 1980's the factory bikes were streets ahead of the customer versions (if you could even get one) and were pretty much unbeatable. I don't think a genuine privateer has won a major GP world title since John Ekerold way back when. Gibernau and Melandri weren't riding privateer or even proper satellite bikes but were HRC factory machines leased from the factory, unlike the ROC and Harris Yamahas that Hodgson, Fogarty etc had to ride in their first GP outings. However, you are of course correct that once the 4 strokes came in any semblance of privateer status was eliminated simply by virtue of the enormous costs involved. The days of John Smith turning up at a GP in a van with a customer TZ/RG/RS and fettling his own bikes are long gone  There have never been any true privateer 4 stroke GP bikes in the modern era (either 990 or 800) as the 'satellite' bikes are in effect leased factory bikes one step down from the factory teams (or identical to factory bikes in same cases!). Sadly this won't change with the new rules in 2012. You may get more bikes on the grid but the chance of a private rider winning is pretty much still zero | ||
| Blake |
I think it's more the electronics that have put the privateers out of MotoGP contention more than anything else, don't you think? | ||
| Davegess |
Blake, I think it is more just the escalating cost in general. Electronics are a part of that. This is the same story found in all racing; what ever money you can get is spent; kinda like a junkie when you think about it. As the sport has gotten more attention there is more money to spend IF you can give the spenders what they want. More money generates a bigger spectacle which generates more money in an endless circle. It happened to Indy car racing in the late sixties/early seventies. About the same time F1 had the same thing. The private guy gets pushed out unless he is very good at playing the suckup game. The factory teams hire pros to do the sucking up and racers to race. At least for a while. At some point the money becomes so huge that the racers have to be good at sucking up to the sponsors. That's why almost all the NASCAR and F1 boys are so bland and polite. No room these days fro the likes of Curtis Turner, Harry Schnell or Barry Sheene. To unconventional for FIAT or Tide or Pepsi. Sad really, I miss the old days. | ||
| Trojan |
I think it's more the electronics that have put the privateers out of MotoGP contention more than anything else, don't you think? It is mainly because the 4 stokes are much more expensive to develop and build in order to get the power they need. 2 strokes are much simpler and cheaper to produce, and make a lot more power for the same or less capacity. Electronics would be just as expensive on a modern 2 stroke and aren't as expensive as they may appear. Most domestic BSB superbike racers are using similar Motec or Marelli electronics as the GP bikes now, but don't use all the available functions because it is the extra staff required that cost the most money. | ||
| Blake |
It's not the expense of the electronics hardware, it's the development effort required to optimize them, the incredible programming effort. | ||
| Trojan |
It's not the expense of the electronics hardware, it's the development effort required to optimize them, the incredible programming effort. Exactly. Swan Yamaha have 'inherited' last years factory Yamaha R1's from WSB for them to race in BSB this year. They woon't be using all of the ECU functions because they only have 2 data technicans in their team and would need 5 to use all the capabilities of the electronics! | ||
| Fast1075 |
I liked it better when the exhaust smelled of castor and engine managment was in the right wrist...but that's just me | ||
| Trojan |
I liked it better when the exhaust smelled of castor and engine managment was in the right wrist...but that's just me Likewise....when electronics meant peering intently at spark plugs and seeing what colour they were after a plug chop | ||
| Jaimec |
Stoner and Lorenzo fastest on Day 1. | ||
| Trojan |
Stoner and Lorenzo fastest on Day 1. Don't read too much into the times..day 1..test 1. Both Stoner and Lorenzo went out very late in the session to post their fast times so I think more to grab headlines than any other reason. Pedrosa was fast all day as was Ayaoma until the last few minutes. More importantly all the Hondas were fast all day. Rossi ended 12th fastest (quickest Ducati) after doing only half the laps that most of the others did. He was apprently just trying to get a comfortable position on the bike rather than trying for any lap times, but what do we know what is really going on in any of the teams right now The BS will only stop when the flag drops | ||
| Jaimec |
The Hondas are certainly looking strong, though. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
It is going to be Honda vs Yamaha this year. Ducati is lost. They are running out of time. Test times are important, the manufacturers need to improve their bikes . | ||
| Davegess |
Test times are only important if you know what they were testing. Lots of games being played this early. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm just curious how a relatively tiny company like Ducati can field SIX bikes like mammoth Honda, and Suzuki can only afford one bike. Even Yamaha only fields four bikes divided by two teams... | ||
| Davegess |
Ducati has been very good at getting outside sponsor money and Suzuki is in deep financial trouble so can't spend money on racing. | ||
| 46champ |
Biggest problem for Ducati and Rossi this year is not enough official test dates. | ||
| Trojan |
I'm just curious how a relatively tiny company like Ducati can field SIX bikes like mammoth Honda, and Suzuki can only afford one bike. Ducati also charge the satellite teams a lot of money to lease their bikes, so don't do it for nothing The factory team is fully paid for by Marlboro and other sponsors who are lining up to be associated with Ducati/Rossi combination. If anyone had any doubts about the marketing power of Valentino Rossi they only need to look at the unsponsored factory Yamaha team at Sepang, regardless of performance on track right now. Yamaha may start to struggle to afford a full factory effort unless they start to get some outside financial help before long. Early day two times have pedrosa 1 second faster than Stoner was yesterday, although most of the Hondas are still near the top of the time sheets. Ducati are still struggling (Hayden up to 10th and leading Duc) and Rossi is only able to do a very few laps at a time after yesterdays exertions. I am beginning to fear that his injury may be career ending after all unless it improves a lot before March | ||
| Vagelis46 |
I think that it is the Ducati's motorcycle that is theatening to end Rossi's carrer. Even if his shoulder was 100% , would he be running in the front ?? Not really sure. Will Rossi settle for battling for the 10th position , just to make Ducati's experiment work ??? No. And he is 100% correct. I think I might put some money on Spies for the 2011 title. So far he is doing better than expected. There is a big battle in HRC on who will be the #1 rider , and Stoner and Pedrosa are really going for flying laps. This might not be too wise. | ||
| Trojan |
I think that it is the Ducati's motorcycle that is theatening to end Rossi's carrer. Even if his shoulder was 100% , would he be running in the front ?? Not really sure. Will Rossi settle for battling for the 10th position , just to make Ducati's experiment work ??? No. And he is 100% correct. The Ducati is definitely off the pace even without Rossi's shoulder problem. The other Duc riders aren't finding it easy (but then they never did) so how much it has improved over the winter is anyones guess so far. However they have been at the front when it counts come GP time before so there is no reason to think that they won't find a way to get the bike working properly. Unfortunately that may take time that they don't have. A bigger worry is the shoulder injury that really doesn't seem to be improving over time. Crutchlow is suffering the same way and is having ice packs and massage between every session just to regain some movement Honda look strong but have a virtually unchanged bike from 2010 other than evaluating some new forks and improved bodywork (Pedrosa and Stoner set their best times on the old forks though). Most of the blisteringly fast times have been set near the end of sessions on soft tyres except Pedrosas fastest, which was set very early today and is more worrying to others than Stoners 'qualifier' yesterday I think. |
