| Author |
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Jules
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 06:47 am: | 
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Nice response - and welcome to the board by the way.
I'm in the UK too, I had to buy my manual off eBay as my dealer was disinterested too.
I'll probably look for and download the pdf version at some stage as I like to print out individual pages when working on the bike to keep the "bought" manual pristine. Theoretically that should be "OK" as it just saves me the hassle of scanning copies of the pages I want to use.
There are actually 3 manuals for the bike to get the full set.
The workshop manual
The electrical Manual
The Parts manual
They're a little expensive (in the UK) when you add shipping (which effectivey doubles the cost as they are quite heavy) but well worth it  |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 07:45 am: |
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Thank you for the kind explanation . . .and just so we're clear . . . you offended no one and my post was not directed at you.
Over the years there have been problems with this. Much of the blame falls squarely on Harley-Davidsdon for NOT creating and distributing the manuals electronically.
Buell, along with being the first motorcycle (or car for that matter) company to have a www site . . was also the first to pioneer electronic manuals when the official 1996 S1 Service Manual was released on CD.
The was revolutionary at the time. It also offered the chance for folks to have the file on their computer and update it as information was appended, amended, updated and corrected.
Unfortunately . . . Harley-Davidson saw Buell "having is" as making Harley-Davidson look like they "didn't have something Buell did" and they crushed the program immediately.
I met on several occasions and urged HD management to to something creative and innovative by doing online manuals where folks could "point and click" and have parts on the way to their dealer direct from the manual. Harley-Davidson saw this as a threat to the dealer's business model. Their entire model is based on getting the customer physically into the dealership . . the reason many dealers won't take a credit card on the telephone.
Bottom line is that no one is directing this at you personally . . .it's long been a sore spot. Frankly . . . I'm a lot less spun up about it given the current dynamics but it's in my current interests to showcase that it IS being done, that Harley-Davidson is aware or should be aware of it and that they are doing nothing.
Intellectual property protection is an "all or none" deal . . you can't ignore de minimus infractions and pursue the ones you arbitrarily choose to.
Harley-Davidson has elected not to protect or defend any of the Buell intellectual property. It's made it far easier to acquire. |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Monday, January 10, 2011 - 08:17 am: |
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Talk about being "devalued"!!!
Check the thread about the $40. chinese levers.PIRATED from either PAZZO,or CRG or the like.The REAL deal costs $180. but the PIRATING Chinese are "A-OK"
Yeah...I have the proper paper copies of service AND parts manuals for my machines.Ducati gives away FOR FREE the parts manuals
(Message edited by Ducxl on January 10, 2011) |
Bwbhighspl
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 09:00 am: |
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Posting a link is not illegal. Having a vehicle that can break the speed limit is not illegal. Owning a car battery that you can take apart to make Meth with is not illegal.
As far as the actual "theft" of the manual is concerned, the implication of the people who claim this is that if the manual was not available for download, then that person would have purchased it at retail. That argument has been proved to be not true in other industries (read: recording industry). Furthermore, these people are clinging to this idea as if that's the only possible outcome of getting this manual for free. Fine, let's play the alternate reality game.
What if, by providing the manual for free, the user starts to realize its value and thus is more likely to buy it in the future? What if, by providing it, the 18 year old who had enough money to barely afford his first bikes starts to do his/her own bike work, and it redefines their entire course of existence, creating a new line of motorcycles available to the masses?
What if by providing this for free, you save 1 million trees in wasted paper in rainforests throughout the world, thus sustaining our existence on this planet for generations to come.
But hey, I don't have these numbers in front of me (and neither do you). Maybe I'm wrong and you're right. Maybe. Best just to make it unavailable; the potential bad obviously out weighs the potential good.
On a side note, if anyone implies rapidshare and the like are strictly for illegal activities, that speaks more to their individual use of those services than it does the service as a whole. |
Gemini
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 10:01 am: |
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i personaly, like many others, like the idea and use of the electronic version on a service manual. ALL of chrysler service and diag is electronic now. have been for a few years. i think that is why i like my bike manuals on the computer.
i don't know for certian, i am not a lawyer, but i don't think obatining a digital copy of a book that was never released as digital is not illegal as long as you already own a paper copy. you have already paid for the rights to own the information. obviously, that is not what happens. just sayin |
Pwillikers
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 11:46 am: |
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I bought the paper manual for $60. from HD. With infrequent, gentle usage it has fallen completely apart at the binding.
I wonder if HD will warrant it? |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 12:48 pm: |
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DucXL - +1.
Bwbhighspl - +1. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 02:00 pm: |
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Every time a thread like this pops up regarding electronic service manuals I pretty much agree with the poster. I would love to see Harley provide a free electronic distribution of the manuals, but Harley has a motto "If it makes sense, beat it with a hammer till it doesn't, then build a million of them". |
Court
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 02:25 pm: |
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Froggy:
I couldn't agree more.
We had all the framework put together for an unbelievable Buell electronic information dissemination program at M.I.T. in 1998.
Harley-Davidson, fearing it would make them look "old fashioned" (Duh) scraped the entire program.
I flew to Milwaukee twice to in subsequent years for meetings about this . . to no avail. Harley-Davidson is dead set in keeping their customer as far at arms length at possible.
At this point . . it matters little in that Harley-Davidson will no longer pursue anyone. In addition, each trademark, copyright or name style they fail to defend makes it easier for folks to also raid the patent vault. |
Dannybuell
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 02:41 pm: |
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I would imagine HD wants to see you buying T-shirts and stuff when you go in to buy your service manual. The altruistic nature of 'green' arguments, a bit too sophisticated for HD? |
Usanigel
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 02:56 pm: |
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The person most likely to want a copy of a parts book or manual will be someone who needs parts from the maker of the machine in the parts book or manual. So this would lead to a sale or service order.
Protecting a book sale might be costing a bigger sale in parts. We all know a book on cd is much cheaper to make than print a book.
Really are you going to build your own Buell from parts you made? |
Bartimus
| | Posted on Sunday, January 16, 2011 - 09:16 pm: |
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I have a brand new 1125R electrical manual for 2010 models.
The manual is in paper format, not electronic PDF.
If anyone wants it, Ping me.
(Message edited by bartimus on January 17, 2011) |
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 01:13 pm: |
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I love the age of electronic media. Having service manuals on a flash drive on a road trip is a good thing.
Personally, I don't care that HD would rather be a speed bump to technological advancement. |
Sparky
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 03:56 pm: |
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So, Tpop, do you scan your service manuals onto a flash drive and carry a computer on road trips? |
Jules
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 04:01 pm: |
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I have the manual in PDF format on my smartphone, I can take it with me anywhere now. I can't help feeling that's probably going to come in handy one day (even if just for braggin' rights ) |
Drawkward
| | Posted on Monday, January 17, 2011 - 04:25 pm: |
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This entire thread is a damn joke, especially taking the link down. If anyone still has the link, please PM it to me or send an email if you'd like.
How much does Harley sell the electronic version of the service manual for? I've never seen one for sale. And if it's not for sale, what makes its distribution stealing?
Court:
quote:Second, if you are in sure dire straits that you can't afford to buy a service manual you'd be I'll advised to be buying or messing with a $10,000 motorcycle. Personally I like to buy and study the manual before buying.
Who the hell are you to assume something like that? I've seen guys doing trackdays on tires I wouldn't ride the street on because they have a passion for riding that is unsurpassed and funds that go to gas and food. It seems your head is very very far up your ass if you can make a statement like this and mean it.
quote:Lastly ... I'm well aware that at this point Harley Davidson is not defending Buell intellectual property but I do want to make certain they are made aware of this just to showcase the fact that they are NO pursuing folks using Buell intellectual property.
Unless I've heard the wrong thing, A 2008-2010 Buell service manual ISN'T Buell's intellectual property...its Harley Davidson's. Be careful up there on your podium, it may hurt if you fall. |
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