| Author | Message | ||
     Badlionsfan |
Or just ride around on an old engine. | ||
| Davegess |
If he uses an extra engine he starts from pit row ten seconds behind the field. | ||
| Jaimec |
Ah, I thought I read something about forfeiting a number of points. Thanks for the clarification. | ||
| Trojan |
My Name is Matt and I am a Rossi Fan! Thee you are, out in the open at least  Now THAT was what I call a proper race, and definitely the best of the year so far (other than the last two laps in Japan of course). Fights for the top 3 most of the race plus a great battle for 5-8th places between the ex 250 champions and Hayden that went down to the last lap. Rossis ride from 11th on lap one to the front was a masterclass in overtaking and race craft, and he made getting past evryone look very very easy indeed. Lorenzo can use old engines for the rest of the year if he wants to as he cannot be caught on points. However I suspect that the gloves will now come off between Rossi and Lorenzo now that there is no championship to think of for the last 3 races, so expect some fireworks between them | ||
| Lightstick |
If Lorenzo tries to go head-to-head with Rossi, he will be severely disappointed in the results. Rossi's already shown that he's the Alpha, and Jorge-boy will just get spanked again. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Great race , I agree. The fact that Rossi won , made it more satisfying for most of the people. It was interesting to see and hear the support Rossi was getting during the race from the fans in Sepang. He is the King.  Lorenzo looked like he slowed down when Rossi got in front of him . I am not sure if Rossi got to 2nd a few laps before the end , just to have a go with Lorenzo , or Dovi made a genuine pass. Rossi made it look very easy overtaking in corner No9 , again and again. Will Rossi and Lorenzo engage in the next 3 races ??? Let's hope so !!! Once again the Duc proved problematic , after 2 successful races . Stoner and Espargaro crashed , while Hayden looked very "poor" indeed during the battle with Simonceli, Aoyama and Bautista. Of course once again Stoner seemed to crash by pushing too much and too early , but there is something wrong with the Duc . It just refuses to work at some tracks, or it just works under a very narrow "band" or it needs a lot of time to set up , but basicaly is just "crap". Of course another of Stoner's big fault is that he doesn't seem to put many laps during FP1&FP2. But in my opinion the Duc has always been a "brick" , and almost destroyed Melandri, Espargaro , Kalio , Hayden and I would say Stoner , despite his 2007 title. He got sick trying to overide the Duc last year. It will be interesting what he will be able to do with the Honda , and I look forward to the test in Spain. We shall see what Rossi will change next year for the Duc, and I hope that he tests in Spain this year , to listen to what he has to say. If Stoner is taken out of the equation , the 2010 Duc is less competitive than the 2003 Yamaha , so it will be interesting to see what Rossi will be able to do. | ||
| Jaimec |
The only problem with the Ducati at this point is setup. Casey appears to be able to ride the crap out of that thing and if it doesn't crash he can usually put in a good show. Nicky has helped make it more manageable, I think. The Yamaha was a boat anchor before Rossi/Burgess came on board. The engine was way down on power compared to the rest of the grid (NOT a problem with the Ducati) and the handling was way way off. Yamaha had gone the opposite direction than Honda... with the Honda, if you wanted to change a handling characteristic you had to replace a part. In the Yamaha, EVERYTHING was adjustable and the mechanics at the time (was that Biaggi's team?) would make TOO many adjustments and in fixing one thing would throw the rest of the bike off. Rossi/Burgess helped find a base setting that worked well at MOST tracks, and then just "fine tuned" for the race. After seven years of working with the factory, they've honed the M1 into the best all around package on the grid. They'll have some work to do with the Ducati, but I don't believe it'll be nearly as drastic as it was with the Yamaha. Assuming, of course, Burgess goes to Ducati... I don't think he's made any announcement yet? | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Burgess is going to Ducati. It's final. Stoner is always prepared to ride on the very edge of the limit in order to have good results on the Duc, so he crashes often. I hope he still has faith in his abilities , and has a better season next year. This year Duc , has the same issues as last year , and their efford to make it more "managable" for the rest of the riders by going "big-bang" , reduced the peak power and Stoner lost an important "edge" . A "screamer" motor , would have given Ducati 1-2 more victories this year with Stoner . | ||
| Lightstick |
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=42321 | ||
| Trojan |
Burgess is going to Ducati. It's final. I can't find any mention of this being finally confirmed 100% on any of the major bligs/web sites yet, although I think it was always pretty much certain he would follow Valentino until he retires (+ it has already been announced who will be running the Yamaha garage next year). This year Duc , has the same issues as last year , and their efford to make it more "managable" for the rest of the riders by going "big-bang" , reduced the peak power and Stoner lost an important "edge" . A "screamer" motor , would have given Ducati 1-2 more victories this year with Stoner . Power is the least of Ducati worries I think. Most of their troubles this year have been due to front end handling in slower corners rather than lack of outright power or acceleration. The majority of Stoners crashes this year have been at corners where he hasn't been trying hard rather than in fast turns, so I don't think a redesign of the motor would have helped him. Constantly changing from one set of forks to another has probably done him more harm than good in the long term as he has ended up suffering from lack of development time in either set he has used. The efforts by Ducati to make the bike more manageable for other riders doesn't seem to have been a great success either most of the time. Other than Haydens occasional good results the rest of the Ducati riders have been very disapointing this year. On a related note, it appears that Kallio has thrown in the towel early and will be replaced by......Carlos Checa for the final two races of the year. Methinks Pramac are looking for crowd following in Spain and Portugal rather than looking to the future for riders! Rumour has it that Pramac may drop to just one bike in 2011 (unless the FIM bails them out) and Intertwetten will go completely, leaving a very thin looking grid of just 15 bikes even before the season begins. Hopefully this can be avoided otherwise it will be another long boring season even with the top riders shuffling around. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Kalio was "finished" by the Duc. I hope moto2 does something similar to him as it did for Elias, if he finds a moto2 ride. I would like to see Carlos Checa for a couple of motoGP races, now that he is in a good shape, not that any "miracle" could happen in those races , but I think that he deserves it since he likes racing and he is a good person. So looking at the last rounds , here is my theory.... 1. Yamaha wanted to teach Rossi a lesson after signing for Ducati....He was given a 2nd rate bike and he runs midpack for a few races. He is the 3rd M1 in a couple of races. Yamaha says that Rossi will not test for Ducati this year. 2. Rossi goes to Dorna and threatens them that he will finish the season early , to fix his "damaged" shoulder, unless he gets a "fast" M1 and there is guarantee that Yamaha will let him test the Duc. Of course there is no problem with his shoulder , only that Yamaha has not given him the latest motor and frond-end , that is why he cannot follow the performance of Lorenzo and Spies. Dorna "panics" and then forces Yamaha to give Rossi whatever he wants. Furosawa is on Rossi's side . Jarvis is on Lorenzos side. 3. Rossi rides brilliantly the upgraded M1 from Motegi onwards, Dorna and racing fans are happy, and Rossi's fanboys get ecstatic. 4. Once again Rossi proves what a genious he is both on track and in politics. He is the king of motoGP . But he is not the fastest on a motorcycle any more....Stoner is. We shall see what happens next year. | ||
| Trojan |
Of course there is no problem with his shoulder ???????????????? Unfortunately shoulder injuries are very often career ending and are probabl;y the most serious type of injury in terms of recovery time that a motorcycle racer can suffer from. Don't be fooed into thinking that just because he won he isn't in pain or suffering becasue of the injury. Kallio had a similar injury at the start of this season and that is the biggest reason for his lack of form this year (not the bike). Neil Hodgson suffered a similar (if anything worse) injury to his shoulder while training in the USA and he eventually had to retire from racing because of it, so don't underestimate the severity of Rossis shoulder problems just yet. He is simply very competitive and doesn't want to leave this season earlty unless he really has no choice, despite not having a chance to win the title. The 2011 season has in effect already started and any advantage that can be gained by any of the front runners going into the winter break will be seen as crucial to the build up for next season. Rossi (and the others) will all want to win the last GP's this year, otherwise why would Pedrosa risk further damage to his shoulder/collarbone by racing in Australia this week or Rossi continue the season when he really doesn't have to? He is the king of motoGP . But he is not the fastest on a motorcycle any more....Stoner is. The record books will say that Lorenzo is, for the moment | ||
| Jaimec |
Actually, wasn't the fastest trap speed this year recorded by Pedrosa? As for Stoner, Biaggi said it best: "To finish first, first you must finish." | ||
| Trojan |
Maybe if Stoner concentrated more on his racing and less on whining and moaning he would be world champion again. As it is he is just making himself more and more unpopular with his outbursts at and about other riders almost every week. Watching him in qualifying and practice is like watching a petulant schoolboy kicking out at everyone he thinks is trying to follow him or spoil his lap, bless him  Shut up and Put up Mr Stoner Next year it will be very interesting to see the politics at Honda as the ongoing Puig (Pedrosa) vs Suppo (Stoner) war rages on. Who will be the 'number one' development rider for HRC and lead the way the bike gets developed in future? Stoner will undoubtedly want a very different machine than Pedrosa, so who will win the in team fight? Latest suggestion is that Stoner will now run in a one man team (managed by Livio Suppo) separate from the main Repsol HRC team (Pedrosa/Dovizioso) and running entirely different sponsorship colours. (Message edited by trojan on October 12, 2010) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Following your logic..... The rider with the most excusses at the moment is clearly Rossi.....I need a wall in the garage.......I do not share my data...My shoulder is in pain.....My motor is slow....My front end is old ..... All riders complain, even multimillionare multiple champions , it is a human thing to do to speak about their thoughts. Rossi's fanboys take everything as excusses , except Rossi's of course. Obviously Lorenzo have joined Hayden and Stoner on the list of the hated riders by Rossi's fans. I am looking forward to Rossi's "excusses" for next year , when he actually realises the task he has to face in order to be competitive on the Duc . The 03' Yamaha had a chassis to make the changes that Rossi/Burgess wanted , the Duc has no chassis so I am looking forward to the kind of changes they make . Of course Stoner should ride the Duc more during practices , he could be accussed being lazy. Lets wait for next year , to see how he handles the new bike/team. | ||
| Jaimec |
Vagelis: The "front end" issue with Rossi is a non-issue. He is not allowed to test the 2011 forks. NONE of the Yamaha riders are currently using them either. We know you HATE Rossi... but try to be accurate in your criticisms. By the way, here is a very good write up of what's happening in the MotoGP Paddock: http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noye s-notebook-2011-comes-into-focus (Message edited by jaimec on October 12, 2010) | ||
| Trojan |
The rider with the most excusses at the moment is clearly Rossi.....I need a wall in the garage.......I do not share my data...My shoulder is in pain.....My motor is slow....My front end is old ..... What you don't hear from Rossi is the same old Stoner moans....'Such and such a rider held me up', 'this rider was trying to get a tow on the straights', 'this rider was to blame' blah blah blah....Rossi almost never apportions blames to anyone but himself for failure, which is the mark of a true champion. The wall and the data sharing were not excuses, but valid reasons to try and beat his team mate. Racing isn't a luvvy duvvy team sport despite what the manufacturers would like to claim. It is every man for himself and you can bet that Lorenzo won't stay too friendly with Spies once he starts getting competitive. Jarvis has already said that the wall will stay up next year in the yamaha garage, we'll see how long data sharing lasts. Yamaha are the only top MotoGP team that does share all the data between riders. It would be considered unthinkable at Honda. Don't think that Ducati are not capable of altering their bike to suit Rossi pretty quickly. They are a small company that can react faster than the big corporate Japanese factory system and their bike is very very adjustable even though it has no 'frame' as such. if anyone can get the bike more user friendly it will be Rossi and Burgess. They have already done it twice at Honda and Yamaha (to the great benefit of other riders too) so there is no reason to suppose they can't do it again at Ducati. | ||
| Jaimec |
The ORIGINAL reason for the wall was at the insistence of Bridgestone, as I recall. Lorenzo was still using Michelin when Rossi switched to Bridgestone and the competing tire manufacturers didn't want any "secrets" leaking through. The next year the wall stayed up because Rossi wanted it (he really doesn't like Lorenzo). Matt, I would've SWORN a couple of years ago you reported that Pedrosa had access to EVERY Honda rider's data... did that change? Because if it's true, then data sharing is certainly NOT unthinkable at Honda. Of course, with Alberto "Satan" Puig I suppose the only "unthinkable" thing would be for other Honda riders to see Pedrosa's data. (Message edited by jaimec on October 13, 2010) | ||
| Trojan |
Matt, I would've SWORN a couple of years ago you reported that Pedrosa had access to EVERY Honda rider's data Not that I remember posting. Honda have never shared data betwen riders in my memory and it would be very unusual for them to do so. I certainly think there will be absolutley no sharing between 'teammates' Stoner and Pedrosa in 2011 at any level | ||
| Jaimec |
Not the quote I was looking for... but this does imply there is (or at least WAS) some data sharing going on at Honda: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/158 664/405154.html#MB | ||
| Trojan |
The allegation there was that Alberto Puig alleged that Hayden had 'copied' Pedrosas settings. As that comment came as part of a pretty torrid outburst from Puig that also included lots of other abuse on Nicky Hayden at the same time I don't think there is too much truth in it. Hayden and Pedrosa are so different in stature and riding styles that copying each others settings wouldn't have worked anyway (even if they had access to them). The situation at Honda is the same now in that they have 2 (or will it be 3?) factory riders all with different weights, stature, riding style and requirements. You can bet your bottom dollar that Stoners requirements won't be anywhere near Pedrosa or even Dovi's so he will be on his own in terms of setup and development. It remains to be seen where and on which rider HRC will focus their attention in the 'team' though for next year, so there could be even more acrimony to come between Puig and Suppo at Honda . | ||
| Trojan |
Very interesting article on Motomatters.com on the engine allocation and usage by all riders/teams so far this season. I would copy and paste it here but it won't let me http://motomatters.com/news/2010/10/13/engine_list _from_sepang_2010_engine_pena.html | ||
| Trojan |
FP1 at Philip Islands looks to have been a bit of a wash out, with Lorenzo eventually fastest but more than 11 seconds off the 'normal' pace. Some riders only put in a handful of laps as can be seen by the strange mix up in the placings: 1 99 Jorge LORENZO SPA Fiat Yamaha Team Yamaha 296.7 1'41.146 2 27 Casey STONER AUS Ducati Team Ducati 304.8 1'41.480 0.334 / 0.334 3 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Ducati Team Ducati 296.4 1'41.631 0.485 / 0.151 4 58 Marco SIMONCELLI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 290.8 1'41.881 0.735 / 0.250 5 33 Marco MELANDRI ITA San Carlo Honda Gresini Honda 297.1 1'41.982 0.836 / 0.101 6 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Repsol Honda Team Honda 304.5 1'42.271 1.125 / 0.289 7 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Fiat Yamaha Team Yamaha 296.6 1'42.626 1.480 / 0.355 8 5 Colin EDWARDS USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 288.1 1'43.013 1.867 / 0.387 9 14 Randy DE PUNIET FRA LCR Honda MotoGP Honda 294.4 1'43.476 2.330 / 0.463 10 65 Loris CAPIROSSI ITA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 289.8 1'43.984 2.838 / 0.508 11 36 Mika KALLIO FIN Pramac Racing Team Ducati 293.6 1'44.179 3.033 / 0.195 12 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN Interwetten Honda MotoGP Honda 297.5 1'44.704 3.558 / 0.525 13 40 Hector BARBERA SPA Paginas Amarillas Aspar Ducati 290.7 1'45.695 4.549 / 0.991 14 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Rizla Suzuki MotoGP Suzuki 277.8 1'46.160 5.014 / 0.465 15 41 Aleix ESPARGARO SPA Pramac Racing Team Ducati 271.9 1'48.127 6.981 / 1.967 26 Dani PEDROSA SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 265.4 1'51.210 10.064 / 3.083 11 Ben SPIES USA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 249.8 1'58.613 17.467 / 7.403 Hopefully the weather will improve for FP2 and qualifying, although why they still insist on racing at Philip Island always amazes me because conditions are so changeable almost all the time. The only one constant factor seems to be high winds and errant sea birds! | ||
| Gaesati |
Aah! the joys of camping trackside at Phillip Island! Better lay in more rum to keep the windchill out. | ||
| Jaimec |
ELBOWZ on the front row!! | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Spies looks good for the podium. | ||
| Jaimec |
Not this time... but he did sew up "Rookie of the Year" honors. Doubtful Kevin Schwantz's prediction of a win in his rookie season is going to happen with just two races left, though. | ||
| Jaimec |
I had a feeling that the reason for the apparent "snub" of Ben Spies was that Lorenzo was simply too overwhelmed at winning the title and simply wasn't aware he was there. Looks like I was right. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Lorenzo and Spies partnership at Yamaha will actually help the team. Both of them are talented and have nice personalities. | ||
| Trojan |
Both of them are talented and have nice personalities. Neither of which are prerequisites for developing a competitive MotoGP motorcycle unfortunately  I think that Yamaha may do well next year with what is basically the current bike but will struggle to develop the new bike for 2012. The same thing happened when Rossi & Burgess left Honda. I also think that once Spies starts to threaten Lorenzo on a regular basis the 'nice guy' facade will start to slip pretty quickly. On the other hand I think that Ducati will be a happy ship next year unless Hayden starts to beat Rossi on a regular basis of course. Rossi will be very happy to have a 'non threatening' team mate again and the team will be on a high with Vale on board at last The atmosphere at HRC Honda will be very tense over the winter and into the new season and the ongoing inside war between Puig and Suppo shows no sign of lessening over the winter. Neither SToner or Pedrosa are exactly 'media friendly' and won't make it easy for each other to feel comfortable within the Honda 'family'. Add in Dovi who still has a point to prove and it could get very heated!! Moto 2 race was another epic at Philip Island thankfully |
