| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
I've never seen so many words trying to artfully discount the success of such an amazingly successful motorcycle racer. There is little to worry Ben Spies from the likes of Pedrosa or Stoner. | ||
| Imonabuss |
I worry about Ben's size being a problem for MotoGP World championships. Like he said at the end of Indy "Sure looked like Dani was on a 1000 instead of an 800". And that was clear from the cameras as well. With all the electronic controls on a current MotoGP bike, I'm not sure that the effects of rider strength, reactions and talent can have on a less regulated bike (think of Troy Bayliss for an example) matter as much in MotoGP. Blake, I think he may have the most talent out there right now, but how do you make up for those 25 extra pounds? If he does win a MotoGP championship, even more credit to him. | ||
| Blake |
An extra 200cc's may help, at least if they would allow a decent fuel load. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Hondas are much faster than Yamahas , so it is not only down to Pedrosa's weight . Pedrosa's riding style is super. And he launches the bike like a top drag pro . Give him some credit. OK , so Pedrosa took Hayden out a few years ago , so what ??? All of these people are trying to win . Hayden kept Stoner back for 2 laps at Indy for no reason, while Rossi had an easy pass earlier. Should this be a reason to hate Hayden , for not leting his team mate have an easy pass ?? | ||
| Gaesati |
"like a rat up a drainpipe!" Go the Rat(weasel)! Good on ypu, Pedrosa. | ||
| Trojan |
I've never seen so many words trying to artfully discount the success of such an amazingly successful motorcycle racer. There is little to worry Ben Spies from the likes of Pedrosa or Stoner. Blake, I think your star of Texas bandana must have slipped and is blinding you to a few facts. I wasn't trying to discount Spies success, in fact I made a point of saying how well he rode all weekend, and what a great talent he is. What I was saying is pure fact, and that is that Yamaha are giving Spies more assistance already with factory equipment. You don't have to be a genius to count the increased number of blue shirts in the Tech 3 garage or the examinine Spies engine use and allocation to see that. Add the sudden disparity between Spies and Edwards performance to the equation (althoguh Spies was already faster than Colin the difference has been markedly different in the last 2 races) and the writing is certainly on the wall in huge blue letters. This is not a criticism of Spies, and like I said, you still have to ride what you are given and ride it well. It is just an observation that the power base and dynamic within Yamaha has changed already before the season has ended. As for the 'There is little to worry Ben Spies from the likes of Pedrosa or Stoner' comment, I thik I'll wait to see, seeing as both Pedrosa and Stoner have won more MotoGP/250GP races than Spies has yet competed in  I'm sure he will win many races and at least one championship, but you can't compare him yet to established regular GP winners. I also think it is about time people gave Pedrosa a break and appreciated that he rode exceptionally well at Indy using a tyre that nobody else could make work in the race. I can't understand why this continued animosity towards Dani drags on in the US just becaue of an accident 4 years ago? Get over it, Nicky Hayden is a big boy now and I'm sure he has forgetten about it long ago. | ||
| Smoke |
Congratulations to Dani, Ben and Jorge! RIP Peter. tim | ||
| 46champ |
Matt it's not the accident, accidents happen, it was what was said after the race and for several years afterword, and Hondas first 800. It is all of this together and Pedrosa is the focal point. | ||
| Jaimec |
Ben's size isn't an issue... Ben himself pointed out that he and Valentino Rossi are the same size. Certainly hasn't hurt Rossi, has it? Pedrosa is easy to dislike. He works for Satan's agent on Earth (Alberto Puig) and has all the personality of a damp sponge in interviews. | ||
| Jaimec |
By the way, in a recent interview Ben stated he doesn't have any new parts... the bike he's riding is pretty much the same bike he and Colin have had since Laguna Seca. He's just figured out how to use it better, that's all. | ||
| Trojan |
the bike he's riding is pretty much the same bike he and Colin have had since Laguna Seca. Colin Edwards already said that their bike got signifiant upgrades for Laguna as it was their home race. That would have been enough to boost what was already the 'second best bike' on the grid to almost factory status. I don't beleive for a minute that all the factory techs were in the Tech3 garage just to drink coffee and shoot the breeze at Indy, nor do I believe that Ben has managed to trash 5 engines so far this season and only has one left, so the evidence pretty much stacks up that they have had continuous development from Yamaha, in addition Ben's improvements in riding. I don't understand why this kind of thing is so much of a secret. Everyone knows it goes on so why not just be straight about it? Spies will be a factory Yamaha rider next year and has always been paid directly by Yamaha rather than Tech 3, so why not just tell the whole story instead of treating the viewing public like morons? | ||
| Vagelis46 |
The answer is simple : People need to think that their favourite rider is so great that he can beat the others on a "crap" bike . Remember for all these years the fantasy world Rossi's fans were living in ??? Trojan , if it was Rossi in Spies place , I am sure you would be arguing that Rossi is riding a "standard" Tech3 bike . Last year you were arguing that Rossi was riding a "standard" factory bike , while all the evidence were suggesting that Rossi's bike was more advanced than Lorenzo's . Fanny how people change theories and views when it comes down to their hero-rider ! | ||
| Trojan |
Last year you were arguing that Rossi was riding a "standard" factory bike , while all the evidence were suggesting that Rossi's bike was more advanced than Lorenzo's Last year there was very little (if any) difference between Rossi and Lorenzos bikes. If there were upgardes available, then Rossi deserved support as the contracted number one rider for the team. This is the way teams have always worked since racing began. At the start of this year the Tech3 bikes and Fiat bikes were close in spec but the Fiat bikes got upgrades in the early races that the Tech bikes didn't get. I am making no excuses for Rossi (other than being unfit through injury) but am merely stating that Spies is undoubtedly getting more help than Yamaha are publicly admitting. On Twitter recently one of the Rossi mechanics stated that they get no upgrades at all now and almost no contact with Yamaha bosses Jarvis & Furusawa in the Rossi pit. he says that they just unpack the bike and race each weekend rather than try new stuff. Compare this with Lorenzo who gets to try new forks, engine parts etc for this year (NOT 2011). If you want further proof that Ben Spies is riding a factory bike in Tech 3 clothing, take a look at his exhaust. Tech 3 are sponsored by Leo Vince exhausts and both Tech 3 bikes were equipped with this pipe until recently. At Indy, Edwards and Spies were running the usual Leo Vince end pipe in practice, then in the race Spies bike had.......Termignoni (the same as fitted to the factory machines). Funny that  The bottom line is this. I really don't give a **** who wins in MotoGP so long as the racing is good. What really bugs me is the cloak and dagger secrecy and shear childishness of the Japanese teams! Valentino Rossi is a fully contracted factory team rider for Yamaha until the last race of 2010 (and beyond if Yamaha get their way) so should be afforded the common decency of factory support until his contract expires. He came back early from injury when he didn't need to only to be treated very badly by the factory team that he frankly saved from mediocrity since 2004. I'm afraid that there is very liitle sporting behaviour in this sport any longer. I am getting a bit sick of the 'behind the scenes' machinations in MotoGP recently as well as the dull racing, and the latest events certainly aren't doing anything to drag me back into the fold unfortunately, regardless of who is doing the winning. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Rossi is getting old , so his fans should be prepared for him being beaten quite often from now on. Noone can beat time, unfortunately. | ||
| Jaimec |
Bayliss did... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
He did. But being at the top in WSBK is very different than trying to stay at the top in motoGP. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Rossi's shoulder is not 100%. It must be bad when you can visibly see him favoring it off the bike. MotoGp paddock should be giving Rossi a bit more respect since he IS MotoGP. For instance, I believe Laguna Seca sold over 10,000 tickets the day Rossi announced he would be racing there. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Rossi is not motoGP . He is the biggest star in the motorcycle history . When he retires, althought a big blow , it might make motoGP better. In many cases , because 85% of the fans want to see Rossi win , organisers made some fast decisions since there was pressure from "Rossi's system" . Did actually having just Bridgestone tires helped the racing get closer ?? I think not , since having a single tire seems to suit only a particular manufacturer or rider ,eg. suddenly the Ducatis are having front end problems . Rossi was the No1 reason Michelin is out , since he was "bitching" that Bridgestone tires gave Stoner the 2007 title , so the "system" yielded to Rossi's desire . This was a big blow for motoGP . | ||
| Jaimec |
Hey Vagelis... Ducati ran Bridgestone from Day 1. Don't blame their front end problems on the switch to Bridgestones. And maybe you forgot the pitiful Laguna Seca race that was actually TWO races... one for the riders on Bridgestones, and the other for the riders limping around the track on Michelins that were throwing off huge chunks of rubber. When Dorna decided on a fixed allotment of tires, Bridgestone responded better than Michelin and ALL the Michelin riders suffered. Rossi at least decided to finish out his season before switching. That humorless little Spanish midget switched mid-season. You are so Anti-Rossi you're just willing to blame anything and everything on him. Sad. | ||
| Jaimec |
Ah, but don't forget the last race of the 990 era when Bayliss came back and spanked ALL of the MotoGP regulars in Valencia! Sure would've been cool to see a match race between Rossi and Bayliss. Too bad we never got the opportunity. | ||
| Blake |
If only Colin Edwards enjoyed full factory support too, eh Matt? Or wait, is he just a "mid-pack" racer though he has been enjoying virtually factory level support at Tech3? Which is it? Does full factory support matter or not? When it comes to Colin, you claim he virtually had it but is just mid-pack. When Ben does well, you claim it is due to factory support. Seems odd. What am I missing? WRT Rossi at Yamaha... What business would continue to provide access to sensitive development technology for an employee who will be soon working for the competition? None that I know. | ||
| Blake |
Jaime, Excellent observation. That was Troy's one and only ride on a full factory GP bike, yes? If only he'd been offered the same for a full season. | ||
| Amafan |
No, Bayliss rode for the factory Ducati team in MotoGP in 2003,and 2004 . Nicky Hayden was only a tenth of a second behind Troy Bayliss in that 2006 Valencia race,but backed off after Rossi crashed,and cruised home in 3rd to take the 2006 title . Nicky was lapping much faster then Bayliss before Rossi crashed, and I have no doubt he would have won that race if he needed to . | ||
| Trojan |
If only Colin Edwards enjoyed full factory support too, eh Matt? Or wait, is he just a "mid-pack" racer though he has been enjoying virtually factory level support at Tech3? Which is it? Does full factory support matter or not? When it comes to Colin, you claim he virtually had it but is just mid-pack. When Ben does well, you claim it is due to factory support. You seem to forget that Colin Edwards has been a full factory rider for Fiat Yamaha and a semi factory rider for Honda during his long tenure in MotoGP, in addition to his heavily Yamaha supported ride at Tech 3. During all this time he has failed to win a single race regardless of the amount of support he has received, so he is not Valentino Rossi or Ben Spies, and the comparison doesn't stand up. Colin Edwards is a nice guy who I have liked and followed since he was in WSB, but he is now well past his best and should retire this year to let younger riders through. However the MotoGP system has so much money at stake now that Poncheral can't afford to have a rookie in his team (Cal Crutchlow) without having an experienced rider in the team 'just in case', so they will undoubtedly plump for Edwards over talented and deserving newcomers such as Andrea Iannone for instance. Just looking at the proposed team make up s for next year there is no room for any of the young Moto2 riders (with the exception of the returning Elias) in MotoGP, so the current riders just play musical chairs but the class remains pretty static. 'Senior' riders who continue to pack out the middle order with little chance of even a podium such as Edwards, Capirossi, Melandri should really think about calling it a day in order to get more 'bums on seats' in the premier class I think. Hopefully the new 2012 rules will see an increase in numbers in the class but I am still not convinced yet. Confirmed Rider Team Bike Contract Duration Valentino Rossi Marlboro Ducati Ducati 2011-2012 Nicky Hayden Marlboro Ducati Ducati 2011-2012 Ben Spies Factory Yamaha (Movistar?) Yamaha 2011 Casey Stoner Repsol Honda Honda 2011 Alvaro Bautista Rizla Suzuki Suzuki 2011 Karel Abraham Cardion AB Ducati Ducati 2011 Marco Simoncelli Gresini Honda Honda 2011 Expected / rumored in descending order of probability Status Hector Barbera Aspar Ducati Ducati Almost certain Jorge Lorenzo Factory Yamaha (Movistar?) Yamaha Almost certain Dani Pedrosa Repsol Honda Honda Almost certain Andrea Dovizioso Red Bull Honda / Gresini Honda Honda Definitely at Honda, team uncertain Randy de Puniet LCR Honda Honda Almost certain Loris Capirossi Pramac Ducati Ducati Almost certain Cal Crutchlow Monster Tech 3 Yamaha Yamaha Strong indications Colin Edwards Monster Tech 3 Yamaha Yamaha Strong indications Toni Elias Rizla Suzuki Suzuki Strong indications Hiroshi Aoyama Interwetten / Paddock GP Honda Honda Likely Aleix Espargaro Pramac Ducati Ducati Likely (Thanks to Motomatters.com for the rider stats) (Message edited by trojan on September 03, 2010) | ||
| Blake |
When Colin shows up Cal like he did James, what will be the excuse? | ||
| Trojan |
We shall see . Crutchlow would have qualified his R1 at Silverstone two rows ahead of Edwards M1 at this years GP and his race times have been consistently faster than Spies did last year on the R1 at almost every circuit despite what the results have ended up like. If Cal Crutchlow can't beat Colin Edwards in MotoGP then I agree he shouldn't be there, but that is not going to happen I'm sure Cal Crutchlow isn't James Toseland that's for sure, and won't roll over at the first obstacle. Ask people in the know at Yamaha what they think of his ability and you'll see that they hold him in very high regard indeed | ||
| Blake |
He's faster than Spies? You don't say. He must be the next greatest racer ever! | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Trojan said-- "Colin Edwards is a nice guy who I have liked and followed since he was in WSB, but he is now well past his best and should retire this year to let younger riders through." So if a team offers him gainful employment he should turn it down, even tho they clearly want him and assuming he wants the job? I think you've owned your business long enough, give it to me, I want a turn to prove I can run it. Colin can stay in gp as long as he wants and someone is willing to give him money to ride a motorcycle. Besides, unemployment is high enough in this county, we don't need him being unemployed too. | ||
| Trojan |
So if a team offers him gainful employment he should turn it down, even though they clearly want him and assuming he wants the job? I think you've owned your business long enough, give it to me, I want a turn to prove I can run it. Of course he won't voluntarily retire if he can possibly avoid it, although I think he probably should. very few racers have the strength of character to retire at the top of their game, and it can be quite sad to see top riders continue well past their best unfortunately. Edwards was visibly shocked by the tragic death of Peter Lenz at Indy and I think the events at Misano won't have made him feel any better about his future. He has had a long and relatively injury free career and with a young family I think it is time he stood down and concentrated on building his new 'Boot Camp' business up. The tragic accident in the Moto2 race resulting in the death of Shoyu Tomizawa was appalling to watch yesterday and you have to feel extremely sad for all concerned in what was an unavoidable accident. However the actions of the corner workers and marshalls following the crash were appalling and really should be looked into by the governing body of the sport as a matter of urgency. Why wasn't the race red flagged straight away when there were 3 riders laying at the side of the track, two of them visibly seriously injured? Lat week at Indy we got a red flag following what was a 'normal' first corner incident by Moto2 standards with no injuries and plenty of tiem to clear wreackage etc. This week the race was allowed to continue despite being a shorter lap, injured riders and wreckage on the racing line! Then to see the corner workers bundle both Scott Redding and Shoyu Tomizawa onto stretchers pretty roughly (with no neck braces in evidence!) and to actually drop Tomizawa as they carried him off was sickening. I hope that an enquiry is held and trackside medical prodecures firmed up to a standard acceptable level following this tragic death to ensure that such a debacle can't ever happen again in the sport. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Was the accident 100% un-avoidable ??? I am not really sure , since the racers that followed Tomizawa did not even tried to brake or run off track to avoid him. Would have been able to avoid him if they braked and run off track ?? I think so , since I think that a moto2 bike can brake harder and change direction easier than a sliding human body . Instead of trying to avoid him , DeAngelis and Redding did not slow down or run off track . Instead they did not back off, they held their racing line and tried their best not to loose the slightest 10th of a sec or give the racer behind an opportunity to overtake , even if that meant that they were taking the chance of killing someone. Just thinking of this is sickening .......How far should someone go in order to win ?? In my book shame to DeAngelis and Redding !!! |
