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Rudy
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 10:07 am: | 
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Hello. This is my first post. I've been lurking around badweb quite a bit, taking in a lot of the knowledge that is contained here. Thank you for having such a wonderful resource.
As a preface, I'm not sure where to post this, as I have a couple different issues. If it needs to be moved, please do so. Thanks!
So, to my questions. I was riding my bike when my oil pressure light came on, I pulled over, shut it off. I sat for a bit and thought maybe it was a fluke, so I started it back up and rode it another 100 yards or so before the light went from flickering on and off to on constant and a loud chattering developed from the front cylinder. I pulled over and shut it down for good. Called a buddy with a truck and got it home.
Here's a youtube of the sound, if it helps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6cooHjG4R4
At first, I thought maybe it was a pushrod (the bike has around 50k miles). I rotated the engine down, took the rocker boxes off and had a look at the pushrods. They're all straight and the ends aren't peened over or anything.
Next I thought maybe one of the lifters could have failed, so I pulled the cylinder heads off, followed by the pushrod covers (and the cylinders, I couldn't get the rear pushrod cover off, one of the fasteners is in a really bad spot), and then the lifters. I'm not sure how to tell if a lifter is bad, but three of the lifters came out dripping in oil basically from top to bottom, while one was bone dry. Could that mean that it's bad?
Next, since I had it torn down this far, I wanted to have a look at my oil pump drive gear. I've looked at quite a few pictures of the old drive gears ('05 and older) and they are silver and the new drive gears are gold. My bike has a gold oil pump drive gear. So, I'm thinking that someone must've replaced it before I got there. The old drive gears weren't gold in color, were they?
Also, while taking the cam cover off, one of my cams came out with the cover. How much trouble am I in? I'm a newb when it comes to engines, this is the farthest I've ever had one apart--I have just enough tools and knowledge to really mess stuff up, haha. (I have the service manual, but the the cam installation portion isn't terribly descriptive, maybe I'll have to read it again, I might have missed something)
So, overall, I have my bike in pieces and no definite answers as to what is actually wrong. Loud chattering noise + low oil pressure leads me to believe it has to be that lifter, but I'd like to get some confirmation before I buy another and button everything up, only to have it be something that I've overlooked and the engine doesn't work, or fails even more spectacularly.
Thanks guys! Sorry for the long post. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 08:18 pm: |
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I believe 06 and newer bikes got the gold gear. The old gears are grey, no mistaking one for the other, kudos if somebody preemptively replaced yours.
No big deal that the cam came out, it just means you will be pulling a rocker box to get them back in... sounds like you already have that apart anyway, so you lost nothing.
Does the oil pump work? |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 03:26 pm: |
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Sorry, but have to ask the obvious- was there enough oil in the oil tank?
Anyway, if the piston skirts and cylinder walls are not scored, you are probably OK there. And I don't believe a bad lifter would cause the oil light to come on; low oil pressure is a function of a bad pump, or low oil level, or a serious leak somewhere in the oiling system to allow it to escape before it gets to the sensor. The other possibility is a blockage in an oil line. Since you are that far into it and have the service manual (good on ya) take the pump apart and check it out.
The cam is no big deal. Don't have my XB manual in front of me, but basically you set the crank to a position, and put the cams in, being sure to line up the witness marks. Follow the service manual.
If you can't find anything, put it back together, and leave the plugs and pushrods out. Hook up an oil press gauge at the oil press switch, and turn the engine over w/the starter. You should see 3PSI or more.
Hope this helps, Dave |
Rudy
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 04:03 pm: |
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Yep, it had enough oil in it. I forgot to add that I checked the oil level after I shut it down but before I rode the additional 100 yards.
I'll check the oil pump the next time I get a chance to work on the bike. I guess I hadn't thought of that. So, as to the horrific tapping sounds--those could be simply from normal parts operating with a lack of oil because of a bad oil pump? That's the one thing that's still got me wondering.
Also, I forgot to mention, when I pulled the rocker box off, one of the shafts holding a rocker arm in nearly slid out on its own (the service manual says to tap them out with a hammer and soft metal punch). I don't have a micrometer to check the service wear limits, but sliding out on its own is probably a good indicator of needing to be replaced, yes?
It's a relief that the cam thing will be OK. Now that I think about it, it makes perfect sense. I just had a bit of panic set in...
Thanks guys, I appreciate the help. Doing my own work saves a lot of cash and is fun to boot. =) |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 05:03 pm: |
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I *think* it's fairly typical for those rods on the rocker arms to fall right out. Unless there is obvious play, I think they are fine.
The terrible tapping will also happen when you restart the engine after taking things apart and reassembling. It only lasts a minute or two, but it sounds like forever as you imagine your engine bashing itself to pieces. I hate it, but it passes.
I think the pump comes apart pretty easily, so it is easy to drop and inspect. I have an 05 pump sitting up on the shelf (pulled from an XB9sx at about 30k miles and working fine). But the later pumps work better and pump more (it was a kind of stealth upgrade to the part post 06 or something). But the one I pulled works fine and if you are in a pinch I'll make you are good deal on it to get back on the road... and even with 30k miles on it I suspect it will last as long as the rest of the motor if you were to bolt it back on. I don't think oil pumps wear out, they explode from ingesting other worn out stuff (generally the pinion gear). |
Rudy
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 06:23 pm: |
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So, I took my oil pump off today and it seems to be OK; although, it added another piece to the puzzle. The insides of the pump look like the 07+:
\imagelink{http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142838/442758.jpg}
\imagelink{http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6931/imag0147vg.jpg}
The part number on the bottom of he housing is 26213-07. This appears to be a late-model sportster oil pump? I'm pretty confused here...
Anyways, everything inside is within spec. I'm going to take off all of my oil lines and blow them out to make sure they're not being blocked and then put everything back together, I guess... Any other suggestions?
(Message edited by rudy on August 14, 2010)
(Message edited by rudy on August 14, 2010) |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 12:56 pm: |
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I'm down to grasping at straws. At least the list of usual suspects is getting smaller.
Flush out the oil tank when you do the lines. You never know......
My X-1 service manual has a great oiling system schematic in it; perhaps your XB manual has one that might give some clues.
Cut open your oil filter, in case the element has collapsed. Certainly rare, but it has happened. Like I said, I'm grasping at straws.....
Could the oil pump drive gear be spinning on the crank? |
Rudy
| | Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 04:03 pm: |
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The oil pump drive gear isn't spinning on the crank.
This may be a dumb question, but what should I flush the swingarm with? Just pour some oil in it and watch it run out the bottom? Plug the holes, fill it to the top, then let it all run out? If so, can this be done with cheaper oil? I don't really want to burn up all of my amsoil 20w50 stock on flushing if it could be done with some generic 20w50 from walmart.
Back to my lifters, they've been out of the bike for over a week, just sitting on some paper towels on one of my shelves in the garage. Three of them I can push the tops down. The fourth is still rigid. Shouldn't they all have bled down by now? Could that be an indicator of a bad lifter? Right now, I'm planning on replacing my lifters, just as insurance. It's probably not necessary, but they're not terribly expensive.
When I get to the point of reassembly, should I have the cylinders checked for roundness, deglazed and get some new rings for the pistons? I have the pistons off of the connecting rods at the moment, soaking in some water trying to get the carbon off of them. I've never reassembled an engine before and I'm just a bit scared that I'm going to mess something up and really have a mess on my hands.
Thank you very much, Reepicheep and Akbuell, for your help. It's much appreciated. |
Akbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 08:46 am: |
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I'm sure you have the holes in the crankcase plugged w/clean shop towels to keep stuff out that shouldn't be in there, so enough about that.
I would get a gallon of diesel from a service station to flush the oil tank. Use a clean container as a catch can; to see what, if anything, is in there. When done, strain the fuel through a coffee filter and give it to a friend w/a diesel pick-up.
With 45k on the clock, nothing wrong w/new pistons and rings. You are already in there..........
On re-assembly, wooden blocks between the case and piston skirts keeps them stable and square to the cyl bore. I have also found putting close fit parts, like lifters and piston pins and rocker arm shafts, into sandwich bags (after coating them with oil) and putting them in the freezer the night before installation, to be very helpful. Can make 'fiddly' or press-fit parts slip together.
Finally, +1 on Reepi's comment about noise on start up. When I replaced the oil drive gear on my X-1, I had to take a gentle (sub 3k RPM)tour of the neighborhood to get the lifters pumped back up.
Hope this helps, Dave |
Rudy
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 07:13 pm: |
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Thanks for the advice so far.
The harley shop said my cylinders were in spec and deglazed them for me. My rocker arms and shafts needed to be replaced. So, at this point, I'm replacing lifters, rocker arms, rocker shafts, and rings. I'm also having my heads ported. I may replace the pistons, I haven't decided yet.
Is it a good idea to replace pushrods? They're the only part of the valve-train that I'm not replacing for sure.
Thanks much. |
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