| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
I still think that Spies raced a factory bike at Brno for the first time , and that Rossi's bike was 2nd rate compared to Lorenzo's. I used to think that last year lorenzo's bike was 2nd rate compared to Rossi's. Which is exactly what I was saying  It wouldn't surprise me if somebody 'accidentally' left Rossi's ECU in wet weather mode after the wet warm up session yesterday morning. I don't mind if Rossi gets beat fair and square, and like I said, I am a fan of racing more than one rider. What would annoy me is if Yamaha had decided to give Rossi a 2nd rate bike just to show him that they are the boss (A typically Japanese factory trick to be honest). MotoGP is boring enough as it is without results bing 'tampered with' by factories. Rossi moving to Ducati will be good for the sport short term as it will bring in more spectators and media coverage, however unless there are more teams and more top riders in the mix in 2012 it will be just papering over the cracks. 13 finishers in a GP race is just ridiculous and the racing is dull as ditch water so far this year with very few exceptions. As for Rossi winning a title on the Ducati, I think the jury is out. According to Ducati the 2011 bike is finished so there will be very little development that Rossi can do to improve or change it over the winter. He will have the most impact on the 2012 bike so that will be his and the team focus for a title win I think. It will be interesting to see how the dynamic works inside the garage with Hayden as a team mate again. Ducati say that they will treat both equally but I don't think that will ever be the case no matter how hard they try to make it so. Rossi is an icon and with an Italian in an Italian team he is bound to get number one status. Interestingly the Ducati CEO also doesn't rule out Rossi riding a Ducati Superbike during his contract term either | ||
| Jaimec |
I don't believe in any conspiracy theories. Rossi had a bad day. Wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. What I find MOST interesting about all of the "Rossi-to-Ducati" news is that there is no mention at all of what Jeremy Burgess will be doing next year... The Yamaha Factory garage will be very different next year. All indications so far seem to indicate Ben and Jorge get along well with each other. Will the wall come down? Ben has already teamed up with the most difficult team mate in professional racing for four years... so even if he DOESN'T get along with Jorge, it won't be anything he hasn't experienced before. I don't think the environment will be anything like what he has now with Colin... but I also don't think it'll be anything at all like what he had in AMA Superbike either. | ||
| Trojan |
Rossi had a bad day. Wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last. The problem with that theory is that Rossi on a bad day still isn't a consistent 1 second per lap (Almost every lap) slower than Lorenzo/Pedrosa and certainly not slower than Ben Spies on the 'dog slow' Tech 3 bike that just missed pole position!(even given Ben's considerable talent). Rossi said that he knew the bike wasn't right immediately at the first turn of the warm up lap, so something was definitely amiss. Rossi is great at setting a bike up and reading problems, so usually knows what the problem is during a race and is never shy about telling the media about such problems. However this time he has no idea what the problem was and is going to 'look into it' during testing today. Just very odd all round really. Today in testing he has gone much faster than he did in the race yesterday, so I definitely believe there is more to this than we will ever be told. Burgess says that he really hasn't made up his mind what to do next year yet. He is quoted as saying that he would have to commit 6 years to Ducati (why?) for some strange reason and being in his 60's already thinks that is too long. He is even considering going back to OZ to work with a young rider there in 'semi retirement', so maybe he has had enough already. One thing I am pretty certain about is that he won't be working at Yamaha with Ben Spies next year (but I've been wrong before of course ) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Trojan , When last year I was saying (according to my own eyes) that Lorenzo had a 2nd rate bike compared to Rossi's up to the middle of the season, you were calling me "crazy". This year you find the fact that the Yamaha factory is favouring Lorenzo , "actually happening" . I actually find a factory favouring their #1 rider normal. At the moment Yamaha wants to build Lorenzo's and Spies confidence and career. I am sure the fact that Spies finished ahead of Rossi, on the same bike, a great confidence boost for Spies and a great "high" for his GP carrer. Just look at Ducati , they achieved building a bike to make Hayden finish consistent 4-5 (instead of 10th as last year) , but this bike has lost the "power edge" that could give Stoner a chance for winning a few races . Factories look for their future. At the moment Yamaha's future is Lorenzo and Spies , and Ducati's future was relying on proving to the world that their bike is "ridable" , so that they could attract a top rider. Can you blame them ??? I just look forward to Indy and Philip Island , since I think they are the only rounds that we could see someone other than Lorenzo winning . | ||
| Simond |
Perhaps JB's indecision is merely a case of brinkmanship and he is just holding out for a better deal (pension? ). | ||
| Jaimec |
I wouldn't count on Lorenzo not being a winner in Indy. He LOVES the track and last year won by a dominating margin. The year before he was closing in on Nicky at an alarming pace and had the race not been shortened might've ended up challenging Vale for the win. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
What a snoozer of a race...I mean really. BORING!!! | ||
| Trojan |
This year you find the fact that the Yamaha factory is favouring Lorenzo , "actually happening" . I actually find a factory favouring their #1 rider normal. At the moment Yamaha wants to build Lorenzo's and Spies confidence and career. I am sure the fact that Spies finished ahead of Rossi, on the same bike, a great confidence boost for Spies and a great "high" for his GP carrer. I have no problem with any factory favouring their number one rider. That is what factory teams have always traditionally done since chariots were racing around Rome. This is normally decided before the season starts though and everyone knows the situation. What I have a problem with in this instance is the cynical and underhand way that this has happened mid season just before Rossi announces his defection to Ducati (which everyone knew about for months anyway). Yamaha made public statements full of corporate BS about how pleased they were....we wish him the best...blah blah blah while at the same time pulling the rug from under his side of the garage. Rossi may not be everyones favourite rider, but for what he has done at Yamaha since 2004 he deserves to be treated fairly, equally and respectfully for the remainder of his tenure at the team at least. The fact that he was able to lap over a second faster on Saturday and Monday than he was on Sunday speaks volumes I'm afraid. It now means that any fight for the championship or for wins is pretty much over as far as Yamaha are concerned, and that Lorenzo can now cruise to the title almost without any competition from his team mate who won't get any further updates on his bike. Not only is this disrespectful to Rossi but more importantly it is disrespectful to the fans who watch what they still laughingly call 'racing'. It is also pretty disrespectful to be giving upgrades to a satellite bike ahead of a factory contracted rider who still has 6 months of his contract remaining. It isn't Bens fault of course and any racer will take what is given to him to make himself faster, but that doesn't mean it is right. Unfortunately this is a result of the ridiculous situation in MotoGP where riders and teams announce next years contracts in the middle of the season. They should make it a requirement that contracts can only be publicly announced at the end of the season or prior to the season starting. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Maybe it is too early to say that Yamaha is not trating Rossi fairly. Lets just wait for another race or two. The earlier Spies bike is updated to factory specs , the better. | ||
| Trojan |
The earlier Spies bike is updated to factory specs , the better Judging by the speed in qualifying I would say it has certainly had upgrades already. | ||
| Trojan |
Here is a quote from Valentino Rossi interviewed following the tests yesterday: Q: You also tried the new Ohlins forks? VR: No, I didn't try the fork, because Yamaha don't give them to me to try. So, yeah, yesterday was very upset for this, because we have 8 races to go, not 2 or 3, and I want to make like always 110% of my effort for the second part of the season with Yamaha, for the last races for me with the M1. And I expect also the same effort from Yamaha. They say to me that they don't use this fork in the next races, so is a fork for 2011. Is easy to understand, because the fork from the outside is different, so we will understand if this is the truth or is a lie. Disrespect and mistrust? It has also emerged at Brno during an interview with Furusawa that Yamaha are unlikely to release Rossi from his contract early so that he can test the Ducati GP10 immediately following the final GP at Valencia, citing 'contractual obligations'. The whole point of not announcing his move to Ducati earlier (despite it being pretty common knowledge) was supposedly a gentlemans agreement between Rossi and Yamaha to delay the news until after Laguna and in return they would release him early to test at Valencia (as Ducati have done for Stoner this year). So it seems that Yamaha will not honour their agreements in this respect either. Disrespect and mistrust? If I were Rossi I would take the rest of 2010 off and tell Yamaha to stick their 'contractual obligations' where the sun don't shine! | ||
| Jaimec |
I saw that comment from Furusawa and I was taken aback by it. Especially since the "Gentlemen's Agreement" story had already been widely reported. That would be uncharacteristically bad form for Yamaha. I'd expect it from Honda, but not from Team Y. | ||
| Trojan |
That would be uncharacteristically bad form for Yamaha Not really. They have just as bad a history as Honda when it comes to doing the dirty on their riders unfortunately. The have a long history of renaging on deals, 'gentlemans agreements' and treating riders badly going right back to the days of Phil Read and Barry Sheene. Colin Edwards has already made comments about the current bad 'politics' inside Yamaha and now it seems that even the man who got them out of the S**t isn't immune from underhand tactics by the factory. I hope Yamaha sales plummet and they never win another MotoGP title (unlikely I know, but we can always hope!) | ||
| Vagelis46 |
So , Yamaha doesn't give an updated front to Rossi , and immidiately the Drama Queen of motoGP complains to the press about it . Could you say that this is just "MOANING " ?? Suddenly Yamaha is considered "evil" by Rossi fans. But last year no Rossi fan could see that Rossi was racing an updated bike against Lorenzo and he made Lorenzo look like a "fool". As many of you have said in the past that "there is nothing wrong with the 2 years old Tech3 bike" , so I think that Rossi should be able to win with a 2 months old M1, don't you ??  | ||
| Trojan |
Vagelis, I think you are missing the point entirely. The fact is that Rossi gave Yamaha their most succesful period in Motorcycle racing for many many years. He could have staid at home for 6 months with his broken leg but instead risked further injury by coming back early to race for Yamaha. Lastly though, and definitely most importantly is this. Yamaha and Rossi had an agreement that he would not announce his move to Ducati until after Laguna so that US Yamaha sales were not affected by the announcement. In return he was promised that he could start testing the Ducati immediately following the last GP of 2010. Yamaha have unilaterally broken this agreement and now it seems will unsportingly and cynically hold Rossi to his contract that expires at the end of December 2010 (just like every other riders contract but their teams reach agreement on early testing). Is this because Yamaha fear that early testing will give Rossi/Ducati an advantage next year or just because they want to be devious and disrespectful. The situation would be exactly the same if the rider involved was Lorenzo, Edwards or Capisrossi as far as I'm concerned, so because it happens to be Valentino Rossi doesn't matter. By the way, last year Rossi was the 'de facto' number one rider at Yamaha so was pretty much entitled to the first upgrades available. That is how it works in most teams. This year they are 'supposed' to be equal so you can appreciate that with 8 races to go Rossi is a little annoyed that he will get no further updates this year despite being held to a contract by Yamaha? If I was him I wouldn't bother putting in any effort until next year and would stay home for the rest of the season. There seems to be little point in putting your life on the line for a company that doesn't want you or appreciate what you have done for them over the last 6 years. As for being a 'drama queen', I think Rossi has a long way to go to match 'Stoner the Moaner' in that respect (Message edited by trojan on August 17, 2010) | ||
| Jaimec |
It was already reported that Rossi would NOT be allowed to test any 2011 componentry... just upgrades for THIS year's bike. Why give him a "Head's Up" on what Yamaha will be doing next year? I don't have a problem with that. HOWEVER, if the Ohlins fork in question shows up on Lorenzo's bike THIS year, then Vale has a legitimate gripe. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
In any case , Rossi brings a lot of "drama" to motoGP. Just look at what is happening already. It is great !! I would also be disappointed if Rossi is not allowed to test the Ducati at Valencia , but the Japs are not "easygoing" in business. I would like to hear Rossi's "unplugged" comments after the back to back tests about the Duc , just like Hayden's comment..."Whatever they pay Stoner they should double it !" I am looking forward to Rossi's influence at Ducati. It will take a huge personality like Rossi to finally make theme realise that they are doing it the wrong way at the moment in motoGP. | ||
| Jaimec |
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/sport/sportresul ts/MotoGP/2010/August/aug1710-Valentino-Rossi-expl ains-Ducati-move/ Very interesting. The rumor mill claimed Yamaha wanted to CUT Rossi's salary so they could meet Jorge's salary demands... but in this interview Rossi states there is no difference in the salary offered by Ducati or the salary offered by Yamaha. This is also the first mention I've seen of Jeremy Burgess, but it is just conjecture. Nothing from the master mechanic himself (yet). | ||
| Trojan |
Very interesting. The rumor mill claimed Yamaha wanted to CUT Rossi's salary so they could meet Jorge's salary demands... but in this interview Rossi states there is no difference in the salary offered by Ducati or the salary offered by Yamaha. I think this is a little bit of artistic licence on Rossi's part. From what I have heard the amount he is getting from Ducati is the same amount that he wanted from Yamaha, not what the actually offered him. There is a slight difference of around 6 million Euros between the two figures Most estimates reckon he will earn in excess of 27 Million Euros at Ducati from salary, sponsors and merchandising. However it could be a lot more if there are any sales related bonuses etc in his contract Meanwhile....At the other end of the grid. I have just heard that Norton have confirmed two entires for the 2012 MotoGP season with Dorna! If this happens it will be an incredible turn around for the Norton name and an astounding rise from nothing in just two years. There is a lot that can happen between now and then of course, and we all remember Ilmor and FB Corse so I hope that they can pull it off. It isn't clear yet exactly what form the Norton entry will take, but as they are still working on the updated NRV700 rotary engine it could well be that motor that will power their MotoGP entry Here is their current NRV588 Rotary in action.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPpRqqCf_m8&feature =related And a short clip at the TT last year. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcF9vwOCXBQ&feature=related The bike will definitely need a lot of work but it would be very nice to see (and hear) a rotary engine in GP racing again (Message edited by trojan on August 19, 2010) | ||
| Jaimec |
How does that thing fit into Dorna's "1000cc, four cylinder, 81mm bore" rule?? | ||
| Trojan |
How does that thing fit into Dorna's "1000cc, four cylinder, 81mm bore" rule?? Pass....I remember they 'relaxed' the rules back in 1995 when Norton last ran the Rotary engine in GP500, so maybe they will have an excemption for it this time too. Alternatively of course Norton could be working on a completely different 1000cc motor for their new race bike, or could use a commercially avaialble motor in their own chassis? One thing is for sure..it won't be the Commando engine they use | ||
| Jaimec |
Found at least one article online regarding Norton's entry into MotoGP | ||
| Jaimec |
On an unrelated note... last year at Indy James Toseland promised he'd be back in 2010 and he wasn't lying. "Crash" will be performing again in downtown Indy and at the track this year. He's a man of his word! | ||
| Noone1569 |
Jaimec: Any specific times/locales on that? He's pretty sick. | ||
| Jaimec |
Details here: http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?artic le=41650 | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Pole position and 2nd place for Spies , at Indy !!! He would have also been a confortable 3rd in Laguna , if he did not make that small mistake. I think he will be on the podium a few more times this year. It could be said that Spies has a better rookie year than Lorenzo , despite that he rides for Tech3 and not the factory Yamaha. Not many people thought this would have been possible for a WSBK rider in motoGP. Talent makes a rider's fortune in motoGP , not their racing background. Where are the rookies, including champions, from the 250cc this year ??? Barbera , Bautista , Simoncelli , Aoyama , Espargaro , all of these put together they have no match for Spies. | ||
| Trojan |
Talent makes a rider's fortune in motoGP , not their racing background. Where are the rookies, including champions, from the 250cc this year ??? Unfortunately talent alone won't win races. Spies had a brilliant weekend and he finished ahead of both factory Yamahas so I don't want to take anything away from him. However it is pretty obvious that he is now enjoying full factory support from Yamaha, so is effectively riding a factory bike pretty much equal to Lorenzo/Rossi. There were probably more Yamaha factory techs in the Poncheral garage than Rossi saw all weekend (including Furusawa and Lin Jarvis at times), and if you study Spies engine allocation/use you can see that he has had new engines at Brno and Indy despite having none withdrawn due to damage or at maximum mileage yet. He is now on engine 5 of his allowable 6, so it will be interesting to see how they rotate his remaining motors to make sure he doesn't end up with one of the early 'dog slow' Tech 3 engines at the end of the year. It obviously still takes a huge amount of skill to do well even on this bike of course, but he is at a significant advanatage over the other 'rookies' this year in terms of machinery (except Simoncelli who has a factory bike from Honda). All of the other 250 graduates are on customer spec bikes that are inferior to even the standard tech 3 Yamaha that Edwards/Spies had earlier in the season. Aoyama is still pretty beaten up after his broken back at Silverstone and Barbera and Bautista simply don't have the machinery to run anywhere near the front of a GP unfortunately. Spies is of course a remarkable talent, and will be at the top of this sport for a long time I think. Whether he can consistently beat Lorenzo, Rossi, Stoner and Pedrosa when they are all on top form and uninjured remains to be seen but it is nice to at least have the prospect of a fifth alien to join the club. Despite Spies great ride, yet another dull boring MotoGP race unfortunately, although it was nice to see Dani win a race in the US at last Edwards was obviously suffering from tyre/machine issues during the race but probably more so the loss of his protege Peter Lenz in practice. It was no surprise to see him retire in the race and I think he may announce that he is stepping down at the end of this season soon. I have never seen Colin look quite so depressed even after a DNF. Thankfully the Moto2 race made up for the dull feature race and yet again provided a great spectacle. Well done to Scott Redding for getting a well deserved podium, and to Jason Di Salvo for his 9th place finish. I've been saying for ages that he should have been in Moto2 and now he has proved it at last. Hopefully he can find someone to give him a ride for the rest of the year in Moto2. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Colin Edwards is a super rider. In my book he is better than Bayliss , but he chose to stay in motoGP and be midapack, instead of returning to WSBK and dominating it . As far as Spies , unless he really was worth it , he would have no factory support from Yamaha. He did really great with his upgraded machine , even better than Yamaha was expecting . And much better than most racing fans were expecting. That does it for me. | ||
| Crusty |
although it was nice to see Dani win a race in the US at last No; it wasn't. When the little rat-weasel was being interviewed after the race, he made a comment that now his fans in the U.S. had something to be happy about. My wife's response to this was, "Yeah, all two of them.". I'm not sure if he has that many. I'm glad that Ducati re-signed Nicky for another two years. Hopefully, with Rossi on the team, they'll get the handling problems sorted out, and we'll see a couple of red bikes on the podium more often. Is there any news about whether Jeremy Burgess and the rest of Rossi's crew are moving with him, or staying where they are? | ||
| Badlionsfan |
No other personnel decisions have been made (or announced anyway) for Rossi's team next season. |
