| Author |
Message |
    
Ryerson
| | Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 02:06 pm: | 
|
Guys,
I have discovered an interesting phenomena:
When heating up the ECM (hairdryer), I can simulate the bad driving conditions, i normally get after 30 miles of riding... After TPS reset, this works fin again for some miles.
Anyone who has similar experience- ?
Thanks
Ryerson |
Terrys1980
| | Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 02:24 pm: |
|
So are you heating the ECM while its running or heating the ECM then running? |
Buellisticx1
| | Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 02:38 pm: |
|
I have also tried it and to me the opposite is true. My X1 runs better for a few miles.
Regards. |
Ryerson
| | Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 04:42 pm: |
|
@Terrys1980:
I have bad running engine after ~ 30-40 miles riding. After looking for the reason I ended up in believing that the ECM might be the the root cause for this. So I heated it up externally to simulate the heat, normally comes from the engine/fan.
As a result, it looks as I was right: the same bad performance occurs after this treatment. The question was if anybody has made a similar experience with a hot ECM, since in my Ulysses, the ECM is exposed to engine heat all the time.
Regards
Ryerson |
Terrys1980
| | Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2010 - 05:55 pm: |
|
What is your AFR while doing this?
While your messing with the ECM it wouldn't hurt to pull the connectors and check for corrosion.
(Message edited by terrys1980 on June 13, 2010) |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 01:46 pm: |
|
My 06 Uly occasionally won't start when hot (though definitely not overheated). You turn the key and the needles sweep, but the fuel pump doesn't prime. Thumb the starter and it cranks well, but doesn't fire. Give it 10 minutes or 2 cigarettes to cool down and it's fine (I only chain smoke when the bike or girl is giving me a headache). I wonder if this is a similar issue. No luck in searches on badweb. I reflashed the EEPROM last night - I'll have to test on the way home. |
Kalali
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 03:05 pm: |
|
Statistically speaking, I think the likelihood of a bad head temp sensor is much higher than a bad ECM. |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 04:21 pm: |
|
Thanks Kalali. I'll look into that. Should a bad head temp sensor trigger an error code? |
Jespo_m2
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 06:12 pm: |
|
Clean the ECM connections.
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/565729.html?1276638034 |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 15, 2010 - 09:28 pm: |
|
I still had the 10 minutes no-start-when-hot issue today. But this time on purpose in a controlled manner with no panicking on shoulder-less highways or chainsmoking 
Ran her again til she was hotter than earlier then pulled over, shut down, but that time got the fuel pump prime and restarted with no problem. Weird.
I think I might be on the right track with the engine temp (ET) sensor in the rear cylinder, but hi/lo fan operation seems to be working just fine and there are no trouble lights.
The repair manual describes the ET as "aiding in monitoring the operation of the engine and warn operator of potentially damaging temps by causing the CHECK ENGINE lamp to blink during operation". It doesn't mention anything about preventing running.
On the next page, it describes the Bank Angle Sensor (BAS) as "if vehicle angle exceeds predetermined bank limit, the BAS will shot off power to the ignition and fuel pump" (sounds like exactly what's going on, though she isn't on her side)
I disabled the bank-angle sensor in ECMSPY, but was able to reproduce the hot restart problem.
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace that ET sensor. Does anyone know the part number for an 06 ULY? I didn't have a chance to take a close look under the airbox before it got dark - any special tools required?
And also, where is a good shop to buy parts online? Liberty Harley+Buell in Jersey isn't really helpful in getting Buell parts.
Thanks all!
(Message edited by supamotard on June 16, 2010) |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Thursday, June 17, 2010 - 11:26 pm: |
|
Still having hot-starting issue. Today I stalled out while in heavy-ish traffic on I95 Secaucus on the way to pick up the wrong Engine Temp Sensor part from Liberty Harley in Rahway (will get to that part later). When the motor stops, it does so cleanly without bogging or spitting first. I'm getting really good at pulling over across multiple lanes on coasting inertia.
After 10 minutes of chilling out on the side of the highway, the ignition and fuel pump came back online. I had no more problems for the rest of the ~20mi highway+heavy local ride.
This is getting frustrating.
I got back home and dug under the airbox and inspected the ET sensor. The single wire cable was tight between a wiring harness and top of the rear cyl. The woven wire cover was worn through at 2 spots, but the plastic/rubber wire insulation looked ok underneath. I rewrapped with electrical tape and rerouted where clearance shouldn't be an issue.
Hopefully this will take care of it - keeping fingers crossed.
The part I was sold #P1278.K had a different connector at the end of the wire (not a single bullet connector). Maybe for a later year? The woven cover looked tougher and it also came with few inches of reflective split-loom tubing as add'l insulation. I'll have to bring it back and hope I won't need to have to try to track down the correct part later. |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 07:34 pm: |
|
Engine temp sensor #P1278.K is actually a kit designed to replace both male and female oem connectors with a fancier connector than the standard bullet. It wasn't exactly straightforward - spent the past 2+ hrs installing. I'll do a writeup in case anyone is interested.
See Al's law:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/384 2/441808.html |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 - 04:02 pm: |
|
So it turns out the problem with my bike was the ECM after all. ET sensor replacement resulted in no change. Bike still occasionally not starting when warm unless i wait 10 mins or (as I recently discovered) lift the seat and hit the ecm like my old 1981 tv set whenever the picture got fuzzy.
Got lucky and picked up a used 4500 mi unit on ebay for $61 shipped. Reflashed and I'm good to go (for now). |
Rays
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 06:19 am: |
|
Supamotard, have you got any sort of ECM connector protection place? If not then this is an absolute must for an '06.
If you have then you have done a wise thing.  |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2010 - 11:30 am: |
|
Rays: what is a ECM connector protection place?
The left bolt on the ECM has a black plastic block that stands about 2 inches high and has a few light scuffs on top. |
Rays
| | Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2010 - 08:12 am: |
|
Yep, that is what I was referring to. Without that block (and some folk have fitted a second one, slightly cut-down to the rear screw as well), the seat base bears down on the ECM connectors and will eventually damage the circuit board inside the ECM. BTW - I mean't to say in place - sorry.  |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2010 - 10:57 am: |
|
So it was my big ol' butt that did it in, huh?
I will have to look into rigging up reinforcements for the new ECM, seat, or possibly relocate to ensure the replacement unit doesn't also go bad.
1k mi since the replacement and all is well. Phew. |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 10:37 am: |
|
Rays, you're absolutely right.
It seems that when you sit toward the front of the saddle and hit a bump, the bottom of the seat will strike/press against the ECM.
As a solution, I carved out some material from the underside of the seat and bolstered the right bolt of the ECM to prevent further contact. |
Rays
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2010 - 06:05 pm: |
|
I think that protecting those ECM connectors is one of THE important mods for a Uly.
I actually raised the issue with my dealer when the bike was very new following an alert on Badweb from Panhead_Dan and they weren't interested in something that might happen.
That was before the '07 plastic post band-aid and I put together a 5 cent solution using and old PC floppy bay blanking panel and homemade locating strap. The seat weight is transferred to the case of the ECM so still isn't ideal.
Here is a link that three different approaches shown:
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/142 838/575352.html?1277679794 |
Ryerson
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 02:24 pm: |
|
Hi,
interesting that it wwas the ECM from the Uly.
Is anybody with us who can explain the attached idle test logfile from my 08 Uly, where some important values as TPS, IAT and CLT suddenly start jumping up and down without touching the throttle of course?? This test was done after pre heating withe ECM with a hair dryer to ~50°C.
TPS for example is alternating between 4.2 and 6.4...(!) The Engine temp is jumping within a second about 10°C. This cannot be real. on the other side the engine speed is changing from ~1200 to ~1500 rpm as you can see the red line in the third logview.
So the question is: What is the root cause for these strange signals causing finally the bad driving behaviour.
THaaank You all experts!
Ryerson
|
Ryerson
| | Posted on Sunday, August 08, 2010 - 02:25 pm: |
|
...forgot to say:
As you can see: After the TPS reset all values calm down and the engine is running fine! .....for a while and then it starts again.!!
Regards Ryerson |
Ryerson
| | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2010 - 12:58 pm: |
|
Meanwhile, I found the reason since I had the oppportunity to try another ECM:
It was clearly the ECM. Obviously a hardware issue, since I changed the mappings several times without any change to the problem.
With a new/other ECM all problems solved. Idea: A/D converter.
Regards
Ned Ryerson |
Supamotard
| | Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2010 - 09:03 pm: |
|
Same here for new(er) ecm.
Mine is now as reliable as any honda 250-500 mi a week all ne season long.
The ecm failure is likely from a combo of heat exposure and pressing/impact on the connector from the seatpan.
Protecting it with bumpers on the body of the ecm or relocation is key. |
Ryerson
| | Posted on Sunday, August 22, 2010 - 08:39 am: |
|
@ Supamotard:
I learned that
1) The ULY ECM is located "closer to the heat" than in all other models,
and 2) the seatpan issue you mentioned might be critical.
Both might lead to the failures.
Against the heat, I meanwhile have installed the so called " driven comfort kit" which is if course as well a "ECM comfort kit". Since then the temperatures under the seat are much lower. Together with the second air inlet on the right side the Engine temperature is down ~10°- 15°C in average and the fan therefore is coming less often.
Regards Ned Ryerson |
Troubleshooting (Poor Starting/Running/Handling/Ride Issues) »
Archive through February 02, 2011 »
Bad runnig when ECM hot?