| Author | Message | ||
     Robissimo |
Did they give you any details on how they fixed the problem? | ||
| Dmhines |
No. They just said some customers experience this and they can fix it. They also wanted to know if I had stock exhaust. | ||
| S21125r |
"xbud, you are chasing your tail if the o2's are still connected." You could change the closed loop lower boundary to force the lower throttle settings into open loop... | ||
| Dannybuell |
S21125r - I don't know how 2 lines made me reread this entire thread but you did it. Please correct my thinking IDK anything; the closed loop lower boundary is set too high and by moving that value down, open loop will activate at those lower throttle settings? Where are you guy's getting this stuff? | ||
| S21125r |
Not saying the lower boundary is correct/incorrect from the factory but when I did some data logging at a steady 3000 at 25-30 mph I found that my bike was using the highest open loop cell in the fuel map and with a slight headwind/uphill it dropped up into the first couple of level of closed loop cells. My exact concern was the same - if I change any of the closed loop cells then the O2 will just correct back down to the surging zone again. But if you raise the threshold of where open loop transitions to closed loop, your fattened up cracked throttle setting will not get the O2 correction. Haven't done this to mine yet as I want to do more logging first. Kind of a measure 3 times cut once surgically (no pun intended) kind of guy... | ||
| Dannybuell |
S21125r - THX. Do you know of any dummies book or web site that may help add to my (lack) of knowledge of EFI programming? | ||
| Bueller4ever |
That will work s21125r, but you are essentially eliminating the 02 sensors, just like if you were to unplug them. If bikes had MAF sensors, then narrow band o2's would work fine and not cause such surging problems. Your car uses the MAF sensor and 02 sensors in conjunction to come up with the correction, which is stored as a long term fuel trim. | ||
| Froggy |
Danny, I am not sure what you know about EFI, but the ECMspy tuning guide (ecmspy.com) can teach you quite a bit about what makes our bikes tick. | ||
| Xbud |
I am willing to try anything to get this corrected, I am a little leary of unplugging the O2 sensors, I would rather leave them connected and trim it through the map (Somehow). Bueller4ever is right, everytime I enhanced the map it would come right back to where the stuttering was, on an interesting side note it increased the engine braking as well. s21125r - I have the, Table: Closed Loop Region Lower Boundary open, and there are 9 RPM ranges from 1850 to 6900 with load values from 0 to 28, what would the recommended settings be to keep it in the closed loop setting past 6000 RPM's? | ||
| Dannybuell |
Froggy - THX | ||
| S21125r |
Dany - not really. You might have a look at the megasquirt website . Also same group of guys used to be on diyefi website. Basically a grass roots group that decided to build and program a ecm from scratch. Bueller - not saying to raise the threshold so high that it never enters closed loop, just saying raise it slightly above the throttle settings where the stumble is - one or two tps rows maybe. Still get the benies of closed loop at highway speed/load but not the light stuff.Since it would only run on the base map at those points you have to ensure your base map is good to start with as you wouldn't have O2 for the gross correction. Sounds crazy but I thought about lowering the threshold first to do some logging to see where it's adding and subtracting fuel to get the map in the ballpark and then set it a little richer and raise the threshold so my richer settings stick. All theory mind you at this point until I actually do/prove that it will work. | ||
| Dannybuell |
S21125r - THX | ||
| S21125r |
Xbud - There are three regions to look for - open loop for very minute throttle openings closed loop from there up to about half throttle or so and then open loop again from there up to wot. So depends on what rpm/tps setting is giving you the stumble will determine where you want the fatter setting to stick and how to get closed loop to dodge it. For a smaller closed loop region you would either have to raise it in the lower boundary table or lower it in the upper boundary table. Kind of confusing but it may be easier to visualize if you copy/paste your fuel map to excel and then open the upper/lower boundary tables so that you can color code those cells that are under close loop control. Then a little careful logging will tell you what group of cells to focus on. Again this is all theory at this point as I am learning just like everyone else. But if you experiment let me know how it turns out as I will be doing similar changes in the near future. Keep a copy of your stock ecm file though for backout purposes as you may strike out on your first try. | ||
| Xbud |
Thanks S21125r - I am learning as well, you seem to have a better grasp than myself. - Lots of people that have the E-B-R Race ECM are having the dreaded surge between 5K and 6K at small throttle openings, cruise situations. Half throttle or more will power right through the range without a problem, under load as well, no problem, just cruise. | ||
| Dmhines |
FYI ... shipped the ECM back today for the Surge Fix ... will keep this thread updated when it comes back. | ||
| S21125r |
Good luck xbud and dmhines. eee bee are will have better odds of fixing you up than you will with trial and error stuff I'm suggesting. I have coin set asside for an ECM myself but I want to wait until I build my pipe this winter. In the mean time I will be making subtle tweaks to my stoker as both a learning experience and in the hope that I can make the rest of this summer's riding even more enjoyable than it already is. | ||
| Markrd500 |
Anymore news DM? I'm having the same problem on my 08, emailed Erik Buell Racing yesterday, no reply yet. | ||
| Dmhines |
As per UPS tracking ...they received my ECM today .... | ||
| Rob_l |
This could be a great thing! I'll be watching. Thanks | ||
| Xbud |
I have e-mailed them a couple times on this, no reply. | ||
| Maul |
Xbud, same here. I emailed them on Friday and have yet to get a response. Don't worry though, they will get to us. I imagine things are quite hectic around Erik Buell Racing right now. | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
I got several answers today after three resends of my message over a couple of weeks - apparently they'd been routing into junk mail.  Apparently they have been doing more tuning in that part-throttle 5K range and think they can improve things with a $25 reflash - sending in tomorrow. KeS | ||
| Dmhines |
$25?? They just told me to send it back and they would fix it ... I didn't send any money .... Did you already have additional customizations done to your ECM or something? | ||
| Kevin_stevens |
No. KeS | ||
| Maul |
I will try resending my original email as well. $25 is a small price to pay to have the bike run happy. Also remember they are a very small company and probably need the money to keep the operation going. I know I don't want to see them go away any time soon. | ||
| Markrd500 |
Any news guys? I've now emailed Erik Buell Racing 3 times with no reply. They're obviously far busier now, than they were when I emailed them my order, which they replied to straight away. | ||
| Macphisto |
I'm also anxiously awaiting the outcome of the ECM sent to Erik Buell Racing. I bought the ECM specific to the FMF pipe, with pump gas, on a CR, and the bike surges constantly between 4k and 5k in every gear. If a rework from Erik Buell Racing would remedy this I would love to find out ASAP. Keep us posted! | ||
| Dmhines |
They shipped it back yesterday. Should have it Thursday. | ||
| Dmhines |
OK ... I received my ECM back ... no chanced to test ... just got back in town from vacation. I included a note indicating it surged between 4700 to 6000 RPM while cruising with a steady throttle. Asked them to please correct this issue. They sent my note back in the box with the reflashed ECM ... hand written on the note I sent was the word ... DONE | ||
| Anonymous |
Markrd500, Just for your knowledge and a reality check for the others reading, there is no message, let alone 3 messages from you in the tech inbox at Erik Buell Racing. Perhaps you now have the wrong e-mail address or our spam filter is knocking it out? tech@ebracing.com |
