| Author | Message | ||
     Trojan |
First of all , noone knows how similar the factory and the tech3 M1s are. I suspect they are completely different. At the start of the season the factory bikes and the Tech 3 machines were pretty much EXACTLY the same. As we are only two races into the season I suspect that the differences are minimal at present and mostly due to setup. Setup changes can have a massive effect as you could see in the difference between Rossi and Lorenzos race pace on Sunday. I think the biggest single difference between the Fiat Yamaha and the Tech 3 team at the moment is the quality of the riders and crew. Edwards and Spies are obviously world class riders, but Rossi and Lorenzo are simply head and shoulders better than everyone else in the current field. I'm pretty sure they could swap teams and Rossi/Lorenzo would still be at the front on the Tech 3 bikes. | ||
| Crusty |
What I infer from that is that the mechanics and tuners on both the teams are identical in their abilities to set up a bike for the rider. In other words, Spies crew would have no problem setting up Rossi's bike the way he can ride it fastest, and Rossi's crew would do the same for Spies. How long has Rossi been working with his crew? How long has Spies been with the Tech 3 team? It takes a while for everybody to get used to each other, and to get in synch. | ||
| Jaimec |
That's why two of the people on Ben's team have been with him since his AMA Superbike days. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I thought it was the most entertaining moment of a relatively dull afternoon racing (Moto2 excepted). I like to see theatrical celebrations (the more bizarre the better for me) and think it is much better and more entertaining for the fans at the circuit than just seeing the winner cruise round with his hand in the air Emphasis on dull. Man, moto gp is still a "spectacle" however the racing sure sucks. They better hope Rossi doesn't retire soon cause that's the reason most people watch it....it sure as hell ain't for the racing excitement. Hint: AMA Daytona Sportbike | ||
| Jaimec |
I don't know WHAT races you were watching, but these past two MotoGP races were anything BUT dull. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I don't know WHAT races you were watching, but these past two MotoGP races were anything BUT dull. really? What was exciting about the LeMans race? There were some moments between the Honda teammates, but all in all the race was BORING. Pedrosa f-ing it all up on the last lap got all the Pedrosa haters all hot an bothered, however blowing a few corners on the last lap doesn't constitute a good race. Lorenzo/Rossi had one interesting moment, but it was worse than boring once Lorenzo got by. There HAVE been good MotoGP races, however the recent racing has been bad. Maybe I am just used to AMA DSB and I have gotten spoiled.... | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Jaimec got it right. All motoGP races are very very interesting. The last ones were good. Jerez was mega!!! I am sorry but low level close racing (AMA Sportbike) is not even close to the tension and drama of motoGP. I do not care if the winner wins with a 10sec gap in motoGP. It is still great!! | ||
| Blake |
I'd much rather watch Danny Eslick and Martin Cardenas swapping paint than any MotoGP race won by 10 seconds. I enjoy close competition, not pageantry. | ||
| 1buell1125r |
+1 on that | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I am sorry but low level close racing (AMA Sportbike) is not even close to the tension and drama of motoGP. I do not care if the winner wins with a 10sec gap in motoGP. It is still great!! MotoGP has the hype. DSB has the goods. Pretty pompous comment there ,Vag. I'll take the "low level" racing any day of the week. You can keep the Aliens and freight train racing called MotoGP. sorry, I know everyone has an opinion, but you guys that think MotoGP is great racing are truly disillusioned. | ||
| Jaimec |
Unless a rider is good enough to compete against the likes of Rossi, Lorenzo, Stoner or Pedrosa, they're running in the "Little League." I prefer watching the best riders in the world on the most advanced racing machines in the world. | ||
| Davegess |
Me I love watching the GP guys preform but I love even more races with lots of racing! multiple leaders and passing on every lap. MotoGp is pretty weak in that regard. Moto2 is fantastic | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Best riders, best machines...i get that. I watch it for that reason as well. Compelling racing, not so much. PLus 1 on the Moto 2. Reminds me a bit of the AMA Superbike versus Sportbike. You have the big bikes with little action versus the smaller bikes providing great racing. | ||
| Trojan |
I agree with Dave, and moto2 is much more exciting than MotoGP at the moment. This isn't anything to with rider talent or quality but because there are decent size grids in Moto2and all the bikes have identical engine power. MotoGP will not produce close racing until they can get more than the paltry 16 or 17 bikes on the grid to pack out the mid field, otherwise within 5 laps pretty much everyone is so spread out the only battle worth watching is occasionally at the front or between those fighting for the wooden spoon at the back. If (as was the case in France) someone clears off at the front then it is as exciting as watching a F1 race these days (i.e not very). With the introduction of fuel limits and engine life rules we aren't even watching the best riders on the best bikes any longer, but the (allegedly) best riders on watered down best bikes  I'd rather see Moto2 style rules encourage more privateer teams and chassis manufacturers into GP racing than watch 16 de-tuned factory bikes circulate at 5 second intervals. What I infer from that is that the mechanics and tuners on both the teams are identical in their abilities to set up a bike for the rider. In other words, Spies crew would have no problem setting up Rossi's bike the way he can ride it fastest, and Rossi's crew would do the same for Spies. Not necessarily. I would infer that the best mechanics and crew personnel are at the factory team because they can afford to pay them more and because it is seen as the pinnacle of achievement for a technician to work for a factory team. Tech 3 will have some very clever people working for them but Fiat Yamaha will have all the brightest stars that's for sure. Certain riders also have a 'knack' for setup or can ride around setup issues. Rossi haas been reknowned for this over the years but Lorenzo is starting to show that he has the same abiity to 'ride around' problems. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
So , how is it possible a "boring" motogp event to attract 130.000 people , while a "super exciting" AMA sportbike event get a maximum of lets say 10.000 people ??? Close racing is not good racing. MotoGP produces close racing, but lets not forget the gp riders are mega fast. | ||
| Trojan |
So , how is it possible a "boring" motogp event to attract 130.000 people , while a "super exciting" AMA sportbike event get a maximum of lets say 10.000 people ??? Everyone wants to see their heroes (and a large proportion of those fans are their just to see Rossi) , but that doesn't mean it will ensure close racing. let's face it thousands of people go and watch golf & tennis too I've seen more exciting racing at club level with just a couple of hundred spectators so the number of fans doesn't mean anything. GP racing is becoming boring and the organisers know it only too well. That is why they are doing everything they can to try and pack more people onto the grid in future. If Rossi decided to retire tomorrow MotoGP would be in big trouble. | ||
| Jaimec |
Closest racing I'd ever seen was the old BMW "Boxer Cup" series. Everyone on IDENTICALLY prepped R1100s bikes. Bikes going into the turns sometimes five abreast, knocking valve covers together. Exciting racing, sure... but nobody cared. Even better was the predecessor to the Boxer Cup series, the "Battle of the Legends." Racing greats from yesteryear rode identically prepped R100R airhead boxers. That did draw an audience because the fans got to see riders they KNEW competing. Same argument last year. Blake said he didn't care about the 125cc class because he didn't know or care about any of the competitors, despite it being a better "show" than the main MotoGP event. The Rossi/Lorenzo Show is becoming an international version of the Mladin/Spies show we Americans had for years. The real battle was for third place after the leading two left everyone else way behind. Exceptional talent is ALWAYS exciting to watch. Unlike the old AMA Superbike series, however, there are at least two other riders in MotoGP who can run with the Fiat Yamaha team which makes it even more intriguing. | ||
| Trojan |
Closest racing I'd ever seen was the old BMW "Boxer Cup" series. Everyone on IDENTICALLY prepped R1100s bikes. Bikes going into the turns sometimes five abreast, knocking valve covers together. Exciting racing, sure... but nobody cared. Depends who you were and where you were. The Boxer cup was run in Europe as a GP support race for years and drew huge crowds. It was quite a big deal to be a rider in the Boxer cup at one time and attratced some pretty big names too (Luca Cadalora, Randy Mamola etc). I am a Rossi fan and do like to see him win. I also like to see Casey Stoner lose, but that doesn't mean to say it is exciting when Rossi wins by 20 seconds or Stoner falls off first lap (again). WSB has been generally more exciting this year than MotoGP, and Moto2 has been 200% more exciting. Now if only Rossi would decidde to finish his career in WSB or Moto2 (just to complete the set) I would be a happy man. | ||
| Jaimec |
I've always been a Yamaha fan... doesn't really matter to me who's riding the bike though having two (and potentially three) of the most talented riders on the grid is certainly icing on the cake. My first two motorcycles were Yamahas. You never forget your first. | ||
| Blake |
>>> WSB has been generally more exciting this year than MotoGP Isn't that the truth. Amazing racing in WSBK this year! | ||
| Spatten1 |
With the introduction of fuel limits and engine life rules we aren't even watching the best riders on the best bikes any longer +10000000 Add 800cc four-strokes to that please. | ||
| Davegess |
So , how is it possible a "boring" motogp event to attract 130.000 people , while a "super exciting" AMA sportbike event get a maximum of lets say 10.000 people ??? Mostly because NO ONE in the USA gives a rat's ass for motorcycle racing. The rare MotoGP race here draws a pretty good crowd because of the rarity factory. We have had so few of these that people go just to see the bikes preform. Add in absolute first rate promotion form the Indy folks; the AMA people don't begin to compare, and you get a decent crowd but nothing like what you get in Spain. If the racing does not improve you will see attendance at the US GP start to drop off. It is not that hot to begin with. How people live in Spain? How many go to the MotoGP race? How many times a year? We have over 250 million here. | ||
| Jaimec |
Dave, With 100,000 people in the stands, Indianapolis looks EMPTY. The first USGP in Laguna Seca in ten years was the first event to EVER sell out that venue BEFORE the actual date of the event, but filling Laguna Seca is a far cry from filling Indy. | ||
| Trojan |
How people live in Spain? How many go to the MotoGP race? How many times a year? We have over 250 million here. Spain is pretty much an exceptional case, as the whole country is two wheel crazy. However most of them ride 50cc-125cc scooters so they are just as interested to watch the 125 races as the main event. It is quite common in Spain to get 100,000 spectators at a practice or qualifying day as well as the Sunday, and they get pretty huge crowds at every motorcycle race event regardless of class or level. This is one reason why Spain gets 3 GP's a year after all (and the fact that Dorna is Spanish of course). In the uK we have traditionally been a WSB country rather than GP recently, and get larger crowds at the UKWSB round than the British GP historically. Brands Hatch used to attract 120,000 fans for WSBK but Doninigton struggled at times to get 40,000 to watch the GP. Now that we don't have a UK rider in MotoGP any longer but have loads in WSB this will probably become the norm again soon. | ||
| Buell2001b |
Trojan thats because your british riders keep being sent back to WSB form GP , lol now if you guys could produce riders like spain and italy, you all would love GP | ||
| Crusty |
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| Trojan |
now if you guys could produce riders like spain and italy, you all would love GP We (Both the US and UK) can produce plenty of quality riders. What we can't seem to produce is a decent championship that leads young riders into 125 GP at a level they need to be at to run at the front in terms of team setup/finance as well as pure talent. In Spain & Italy the setup is that good young riders get fed straight from a national 125 series into GP125 running in well funded and equipped teams. At the very least they will go into European championship racing. Very few top riders from Spain or Italy would consider staying in a domestic Superbike/Supersport series rather than going to GP's. Here in the UK riders tend to spend far too long working their way through various domestic production series so are either too old for GP places or more importantly unknown by team managers looking to hire riders. Those few British GP riders that have made a relative success of things have ALL come up through the Spanish championship (Bradley Smith, Danny Webb and Scott Redding all took this route), as of course did Casey Stoner. It is interesting to note that Stoner started his European career in the UK 'Superteens' series alongside Leon Camier and other current Superbike riders. He was regularly beaten by them and showed no real brilliance in this series, but whereas they stayed in the UK he went straight over to race in the Spanish 125 series and got picked up by the GP circus from there. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Any good reason MotoGp only runs one race per weekend? Seems like with the massive cost of getting the equipment and personnel from venue to venue, it would make sense to run two races per class. I really like the AMA's style of having racing on Saturday and Sunday. | ||
| Trojan |
Any good reason MotoGp only runs one race per weekend? Seems like with the massive cost of getting the equipment and personnel from venue to venue, it would make sense to run two races per class. Three main reasons really. 1. The biggest reason is that the one race format has always been the way GP races have been run since time began. It is only in recent years that the 'double header' format has been popularised by production based Superbike racing. 2. Up until recently GP engines would last just long enough to finish a race. Colin Chapman (Lotus founder) once said that the perfect race engine would expire (and run out of fuel) on the slow down lap. With increasing focus on cutting costs it would effectively double engine and tyre costs to run two races (unless they halved the distance of each race of course). 3. Although there is only one race, they do run practice and qualifying sessions over 3 days so they are already pretty much flat out from Thursday to Sunday anyway. Adding a second race would mean that teams would have to carry even more equipment and spares than they already do, so increasing logistics costs over and above engine and tyre costs. I actually think that two shorter 'sprint' races would be more exciting for spectators and would stop the field spreading out as much as it does in the longer format currently in use. It would also mean that a crash wouldn't necessarily mean the end of your race weekend. Superbikes have shown that the format works and now that GP engines have to last a lot longer maybe it will be more realistic to do now. | ||
| Jaimec |
I'd just as soon they give them back the second Friday practice... |
