| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_a |
The bike hadn't been rode in a couple weeks due to some primary noise. I swore it sounded like the engine sprocket nut had come loose. Finally took a look today (was waiting for a better primary lock than the flexy "stair step"...first one got lost in transit) and the primary chain looked ridiculously loose. Found the tight spot...it was right on spec. The loose spot has 7/8" of wiggle. That's a new one. This chain probably only has around 10,000 miles on it. The original went 18K (keep in mind this is a chain drive bike). It's had an extra 15lb-ft of torque...so that may have contributed slightly. I've been forced to ride an '07 Aprilia Tuono, Triumph 955 Speed Triple, Street Triple, a Bonneville, and a Ducati Monster 900IE. While the Tuono is especially entertaining these bikes remind me how I have more fun on my own. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Maybe the primary sprocket nut has come loose- it's hard to imagine how you could get that much play in a primary chain in one spot otherwise. | ||
| Buellistic |
Rick-a your primary chain was 1/8th TOOOOOOO LOOSE !!! The CHAIN will take the TORQUE if adjusted correctly ... 3/4 of an inch on the tight spot is the correct play on the tight spot !!! Sending you PRIMARY CHAIN ADJUSTMENT Class 101, has how to adjust the BLAST PRI. CHAIN also ... Any body else want a copy just e-mail me ..., (Message edited by buellistic on May 31, 2010) | ||
| Rick_a |
The book has it at 3/8" to 1/2" at the tightest point (cold). I've always used 3/8." Anyway, the adjuster is almost ran completely out at this point...so there aren't many miles left on it regardless. At 1/4" farther out or more than the maximum spec (such as my 7/8" play or your 3/4" spec) the chain starts slapping the top of the primary cover and making a racket. This is an old track day casualty cover which illustrates this.  If it was set at 3/4" at the tight spot it'd be 1-1/4" at the loose point which is a definite no-go in my experience. I've been running this thing with a chain final drive since it had 15,000 miles in it and both the drive chain and primary chain get beat up due to there being no dampening anywhere in between. Those belted miles are likely why the first primary chain lived longer. | ||
| Buellistic |
Rick_a: Lets start with THE FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL is "WRONG" !!! If you have 1 1/4 inch play on the loose spot after adjusting on the tight spot to 3/4 inch you must be running a DUCKWORTH CHAIN or you just need a new chain ... Have a 109,451.2 miles as of the last ride and still running my original OEM chain ... When "i" adjust my primary chain to 3/4 inch play it does not hit the case and if it did "i" would grind a little of the case away until it did not !!! BUELLers need to run their primary chains at 3/4 inch on the tight spot because that is RACING SPECIFICATIONS which still applies from the days of KR's and the later XR's ... That is why you are smoking the primary chain on TRACK DAYS !!! If you look at your chain adjuster plastic and see deep chain groves worn into it that is an indication you are running the primary chain TOOOO TIGHT ... Will send you Drive Belt/Chain Class 101 so we can go through this THE FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL being wrong ... If you would like to discus this over the phone, my home phone is (813)661-2664 ... | ||
| Rick_a |
I appreciate the input...I've just never heard of running the primary chain that loose, even after working in an H-D shop for four years. The manual even states that the factory sets it tighter; 1/4" with specialized equipment. This bike has had the same tensioner in it since I've owned it and it looks fine. That's a lot of miles...but I guarantee that the primary chain would not last nearly as long using a chain final drive. | ||
| Buellistic |
Rick_a: "WELL", "i" was working in at a HARLEY-DAVIDSON DEALERSHIP before you were born and went to FACTORY SCHOOL with GEORGE A. Adamec when his fathers DEALERSHIP was in Elizabeth, NEW JERSEY before moving it to JACKSONVILLE ... If you want to believe some of the things that are "WRONG" in the FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS, "WELL" it is your motorcycle and yours to do with as you please as "i" am just trying to help you !!! It could be that you have gotten chains from a BAD BATCH of chains ... Many years ago H-D used to put DUCKWORTH chains on new bikes and when the Dealer got them in the DUCKWORTH chain were removed and sent back to the FACTORY and DIAMOND chains installed ... The only reason to go to a FINAL DRIVE CHAIN is you can fine tune your gearing to the RACE TRACK that you would be racing on ... | ||
| Spiderman |
And when you were working at a dealership before any of us were born, the tolerances back then were calculated on slide rules, and in peoples heads. Now we have computers, FEA analysis, and other programs that allow them to use newer materials and alloys and less material in specific areas to allow tighter tolerances. Engineers theses days have a wide range of tools to build, test and destroy stuff in cyber space well before a real thing is even built... | ||
| Fast1075 |
The world's fastest aircraft was designed using slide rules...and so were the calculations for the first nuclear reactor. Maybe they just don't build chains the way they used to...in any case...there was a time when age and experience garnered a certain amount of respect. Just Sayin.... | ||
| Spiderman |
The world's fastest aircraft was designed using slide rules...and so were the calculations for the first nuclear reactor. I'm sure those guys were a lot smarter than the HD, as Buellistic would put it, techs. LOL | ||
| Fast1075 |
No doubt Spidey...no doubt...  | ||
| Spiderman |
What used to be the old saying, 'If they built a plane would you fly in it?' | ||
| Buellistic |
Not until "i" checked the FACTORY SERVICE MANUAL an compared it to the Air Craft Maintenance Records to see if there were any blatant ENGINER'ing ERRORS ... Spidey: Have some ENGINER'ing DRAWINGS that you should look at, just e-mail me and a copy is yours ... | ||
| Rick_a |
Most mistakes in service manuals get fixed in a year or two and tech bulletins are issued in the interim. This engine's primary innards (as everyone knows) have been largely unchanged since 1991 and the chain hasn't changed since 1957. It may be possible that Harley could've been wrong all this time...but it's a stretch that H-D and Buell would do so. If it costs them money, they get it right, eventually (most of the time). Buellistic, it may very well be that you've been around H-D's since their very beginning. That doesn't change the fact that running a looser primary chain has never worked for me. Running it in factory spec isn't much better, but at least it's quieter without that chain whipping about in there, shifts better...easier to find neutral, less lash, etc. BTW, admitting that you took a factory school back then isn't much of an endorsement!  All kidding aside, I've read up on the running method of chain adjustment, where it is set tight with the engine idling, then loosened until the "whine" disappears. What people are ending up with is the factory spec. I use a drive chain because I do stupid things that can break a belt. The chains stretch to hell frequently and eat my fancy "racing" rear sprockets up letting me know well in advance when I need to feed it another set. That's an inconvenience but to me is a great trade-off for piece of mind in NOT getting stranded. Granted, the belts are supposed to be a lot better; cleaner, last forever, absorb engine pulses, have less driveline lash, etc...but if it prevents the H-D stealership from taking my monies that's another plus. Your info on the final drive belt/chain adjustment is right on. I've been doin' it that way for several years, so I know it's right Apparently the manual doesn't cover altered rear suspension geometry and alternate swingarm lengths. People are always kickin' my chain as if it's too loose as it needs to run 2-1/4" to 2-3/8" slack unladen. Once that spec was established the first time there's no reason to go through all that hassle every time...which is kinda where I'm at with the primary chain thing. I did make an error in my earlier post...the adjuster has plenty of threads left. Only when I set it to factory spec on the loose spot it doesn't (which I did for comparative purposes). | ||
| Rick_a |
Picked up a Tsubaki primary chain today. Hopefully that Japanese steel will hold up well. If not, it was inexpensive, anyway. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Tsubaki makes some very good products...so if the new chain has horrible loose/tight spots in it...something has to be whacky with the clutch basket. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Looking for a thread to hijack.... if you have the primary cover off, could you tell me, the grooves in the tensioner are closer to one side of it than the other, yes? Which side is closer? My problem is that I took off the tensioner to powdercoat the primary and I'm concerned I may not have put it back in the same orientation, which would result in very fast wear. I could just replace it with a new one but I'm hoping for a quick in and out looksee. | ||
| Jramsey |
The closed side of the plastic shoe goes towards the primary cover,open side towards the stator. If installed backwards the shoe may come off the plate. | ||
| Sportyeric |
Thanks. I never even noticed a difference between one end and the other when I put it in new. Must have gotten lucky at least once. | ||
| Rick_a |
This is Buellistic's reply in red (I formatted it for him), posted with his permission:
People have posted corrections and bulletins from later years...all things that I've corrected or printed out and stuck in my manual. |
