| Author | Message | ||
     Snoman |
I've read all the old threads I could find on both of these tires, but still haven't found all the information I'd like before buying a couple sets of tires. I'm going to be taking the Uly on a 8-10K mile ALCAN trip which means I'll be going through at least two rear tires. I'd like to keep it to two. My current plan has be starting out in Minnesota with a new Trail front and new D616 rear. I'll be riding primarily slab on the way up (90+%). Once I get to Yukon, the mix should only be about 50-60% pavement. Depending on how much time we have left for the ride home, we'd like to ride as much gravel and dirt as possible back to MN. The reason I'm thinking of starting out with the D616 is that I'm assuming it's a thinner carcass than the Trail and the first part of my trip will be smoother roads. Can anyone confirm this assumption? Also, what are my chances of getting 10K miles out of these two rear tires? How about 10K out of ONE Trail front? Hard to find much information on the life of these "new to us" tires. | ||
| Bzrider |
ive never tried the trail but the sycs tread pattern sucked offroad i went back with the 616 works good for me and ive never torn one up i have plugged a few but that wasnt on the trail that was screws in the road milage i get between 7-8000 out of a 616 about 4-5 ou of a sync | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
I have 15,200 on my Uly, about 98-99% on road. 100% with 616's. I got 8k out of my first rear, 2 out of the second (staple double punctured it) and have plenty of tread left with 5k on my third. Still on the factory front 616. I really like the tire, the high speed wobble I experienced for one ride until I tuned the suspension to my load and it has been stout since. I just played with the rear preload again and am noticing a little bit of unstableness at 80-85MPH so plan on doing a full suspension tune again. I really like the 616 but with the amount of on road vs off road I do I think I am going to move to a more road specific tire like the Michelin sport touring tire. | ||
| Drunk_uncle |
Unless you are willing to fit true Dual Sport tires that aren't "the right size" you are going to face a lack of traction. I rode 250 miles offroad on the Scorpion Trails saturday to include 1-3ft deep creek crossings, mud, deep gravel, and dirt roads. The biggest issue is the 17" front wheel. Gravel totally sucked, saved it after going sideways at 30mph multiple times. Basicaly anything slick the front tire is going to have trouble biting in turns. Straight line acceleration was never a problem and will lift the front wheel on any surface except mud. You can do it, it is just alot of work. Didn't have a single tire failure and hit same pretty damn big rocks at speed. Thought for sure I was going to cut a tire. Only have 500 miles on them so can't attest to the miles the Scorpion Trails will do yet. | ||
| Bzrider |
the 17 inch doesn seem o bother me very much we road sand .sandy mud red clay and some gulf ball sized granet gravel that crap sucks the clay seemed o be the big problem ex. off camber uphill washouts .hat crash hurt but not the bikes fault it was to much speed and poor line .i posted he pic in he uly pic sec | ||
| M2nc |
The D616 on road are not the greatest tire unless it is pouring down rain. In very wet pavement conditions I have yet to find a match. The problem with the D616 is the front tire will wonder at speed. Now as far as for the Trail, I have no experience with the tire. I know the problem I have with the Syncs is they are too thin to do any real gravel or off-road. Every time I tried any extensive gravel or dirt roads, I would end up with a flat with the Syncs. To make it worse, the wall of the tire would be shattered so plugs would not hold. I hope the Trail is more substantial than the Sync. That said I like the Syncs on road but have a new set of D616s I will put on the Uly as soon as I get done with the Honey-Dos. | ||
| Paralegalpete |
I would do the opposite, use the trails for the higher speed smooth roads at the start, and the Dollops for the rougher stuff. | ||
| Snoman |
Paralegalpete - are you comfortable with the durability of the carcass of the D616 in the rough stuff? It sounds like they are heavier than the Syncs, but don't have confirmation of that. I met up with a local guy last night who's done a similar, but shorter ALCAN trip and has also ridden three Iron Butt Rallys (finishing two), so he can ride. He had a KTM 990 in Alaska with TKC's, and by the end of the night, had me second guessing my decision to do the whole trip on dual sport tires. Not sure I want to turn this thread into a "Knobbies" discussion, but I might be back to the drawing board on my tire plan. I think it'd be a blast to run knobbies on the Uly, but I'm not sure how I'll cover 10K miles without multiple tire changes. It definately complicates things. | ||
| Bzrider |
rotorhead put knobs on for a dusty but attemt i think he still runs them and another guy in dubai has them also .i ride with 616 and they work great in bad conditions very safe in the wet but like any non knob you really need to pracice offroad the only way to know is get out and practice in the worst stuff you can find every time i go out is a learning exp.the front end wont push if your body posiion is correct the rear slides at speed but is controllable if you sit in the soft stuff the bike is a bich to control. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I run 616s exclusively on my 06 andhave had no issues. 5k per rear, 10k per front like clockwork (with bags). If you're going same route out and back, or have a shared waypoint near the on/off pavement switch, I'd run a PR2 rear for the slab end, put on a 616 for the dirty part, and grab my PR2 again for the slab home. | ||
| Terrible1one3 |
M2nc I did experience some wobbling at speed but after going through the owners manual and adjusting the suspension accordingly it stabilized right up. Also, check with your insurance company and make sure they will cover you if you have some mis-matched tires. From what I understand some insurance companies might deny your claim or give you a rough time about having mis-matched tires. I also heard as long as they have the same rating or something you are alright. | ||
| Paralegalpete |
Just for the record, I have no personal experience with either tire, although have been researching for my next set, which will be the dunlops. It appears by the tread design and from what I have learned that the Dunlops will perform better in the dirt. | ||
| Towpro |
I also switched from Syncs to Dunlop. I looked at the Trails, but there is not enough experience here on them yet. I wanted a tire with a thicker carcass then the sync. I might have gone with the Trails, but the price of the dunlops won me over. | ||
| M2nc |
I have played with Suspension adjustments but at consistent 80-85mph speeds the D616 wobble just a bit. If you have any experience with knobbies on pavement, it's just a mild case but similar. At slower speeds they do fine. As for the carcass, I change my own tires and can tell you the D616s seem to weigh twice as much as the Syncs. When mounting on the rim, the Syncs can almost be done by hand where the D616 has to be coax on with the bar. | ||
| Snoman |
Thanks M2nc, that's what I was looking for - confirmation that the D616 is heavier than the Sync. I put a hole in my last Sync (which was about shot anyways) and was shocked how thin it was in the middle. For my trip, I'm now thinking about starting with a new set of Dunlops, changing them out for knobs a couple thousand miles out, and then putting them back on for the ride home. Now to read up on knobs. I like the TKC80, but it looks like a front fender mod may be required? More research to do... | ||
| Itileman |
One of the better reviews of D616/Scorpion Syncs. Would guess the Trails would do better off road. http://www.canyonchasers.net/reviews/tires/d616vSy nc.php | ||
| Windrider |
I ran through a pair of the D616s but they didn't wear well. The tread wore out unevenly. They also liked to follow every little groove in the road. I prefer the Syncs but neither tire is much for dirt traction. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Now to read up on knobs. I like the TKC80, but it looks like a front fender mod may be required? The front fender needs chopped off, and the knobs on the sides of the tires needs shaven down to fit in between the forks. Somebody on AdvRider cut the sides down and chopped his fender off to run the TKC80's. He took them off shortly there after because he was not happy with them. | ||
| Etennuly |
I have been thinking what I would do in this situation, given the current limited choices of tires. The Sync is a good road tire, the carcass is thin and a larger rounder profile that is similar to the D616. Something I found out by accident while riding with Pete and others. A Michelin Pilot Road II has a thicker tougher carcass than either of them. It just has a less trail friendly tread pattern. Well my new idea is to groove the tire to one's own specification. Sure the manufacturer would scoff at doing such a thing, but for many years I grooved race car tires that ran 400+ hp in a 2,300 pound car, sideways at 75+ mph on dirt with never a problem caused by the grooving, and occasionally on a light weight tire, the groover might get into a cord of the carcass. They were actually quite thin. This is after running about 3 1/2 miles flat on a PRII that had nearly 9,000 miles on it. I believe a Sync would have come apart(just by going that many miles). This thing still was on the beads and rideable although squirrelly.  This cut was caused by an unseen flat stone that was kicked up on edge by the front tire at about 60 mph coming to the bottom of the Cherohala on the Tennessee side. To give you an idea how hard it hit, the back of the bike kicked up about a foot and out to the side about six inches, and it was flat before it came back down on the road.  In modifying a tread pattern you would just have to keep your head about you until you built confidence in it. And you would have to realize it would not last as long, nor would it be as sporting on the road as it was. It is all about compromise. | ||
| Bdrag |
Etennuly Love the pics. I have run the Scorpion trails and Metzeler Torance on the Strom and BOTH have real hard carcuses. I have riden both tires flat for many miles and the bead stays put and the fact that the side wall and tread both have an extra layer and I believe they are steel belted as well. I was in a 95 mph sweeper and the rear went spust spust and was flat in about 3 seconds. Ran over a some glass or something and the tire went. I was able to adjust my line thank god and ride it out as a wiggling fat bastard. HAhahaaaa. Rode it to a near by parking lot and plugged it. Ran that tire another 1500 hard miles. Hell, I had the bike up in the 100's 2 miles after the repair. HAhha. DUMB ASS I know. I will very likly try a Trail next. My Pirelli Angel is peppered with punctures just from gravel in road work areas in Arkansas last weekend. No loss of air but scarry the tire can be bruised up that bad that easily. BDRAG (Message edited by BDRAG on May 07, 2010) | ||
| M2nc |
I have to agree with the article posted. The D616 tires are hands down the best wet surface tire I have ever had. I find the Dunlops better than the Pirellis in general on wet surfaces, but the D616s are tops. I found out just how good one night in Indiana. It was pouring rain and I was on the interstate. Traffic was acting weird so I decided to get out of the situation with throttle. When I did four or five cars did as well. I sped up, they sped up. I speed up some more, they speed up some more. So I wicked it up and pulled away. Breaking 100mph in the rain the bike felt like it was on dry pavement. Once clear I see the cars trying to catch back up and when traffic is that stupid I just pull off and that's what I did. Still pouring down rain I slowed off the exit ramp to see something in front of the headlight. I can quite figure out what it was till I stood up and looked over the handlebars. It was water being shot off the tires straight up like a drink fountain high enough that at lower speeds it was causing shadows in front of the bike. I have never see a tire disperse so much water and ever since I have respected the D616 in the rain. On dirt, especially mud, I find the Syncs much quicker to give up traction. I also find the dry pavement wondering the article talked about on the D616. So to me the article is spot on. Vern, I want to eventually try the PR. | ||
| Los5445 |
I want to get the Pirelli Trails but I am worried about the 190mm width. I am willing to get them but the fit is my worry. Guidance anyone? | ||
| Itileman |
From what I've read both here and on advrider, it's no big deal. There is apparently no fitment issue. To me, it's a better option than going down to a 160 size tire. |
